When Numbers Changed The Words

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Labyrinth

Escapist Points: 9001
Oct 14, 2007
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There are many people in this world, of many different ages and many different abilities. Stereotypes and prejudice surround most when they state their identification with something, or even just due to a number attacked to their person. Hence ageism. Like sexism or racism it is a presumption of behaviour or nature attached to a person due to their age. And it's everywhere.

I won't deny that this is in part a response to a particular comment aimed at me suggesting that I should "do something with my life" before offering opinions or satire. As a highschool student I get that attitude dolled out a lot, be it online or in 'real life' where my views are dismissed due to a school uniform.

In many ways this is a subconscious thing. People are often stunned when someone of my age programmes games, paints, draws or sculpts well above the skill of their older counterparts. In a similar way there is an automatic presumption that elderly or even middle-aged people are incompetent with technology. Some of this stereotype is no doubt grounded in common experience, but it is a stereotype none the less and like other such assumptions, should only ever be taken as a guide.

It certainly isn't ground to attack someone.

My own distaste at ageism stems mostly from the impediments it puts before me. I sometimes go out of my way not to look 16 so my views and expression isn't immediately dismissed as the stupid ideas of a gigging schoolgirl sensationalist. I try to fit in to a degree to make it easier for me to convey things which I otherwise wouldn't be able to say. Would my words from any older mouth really be so changed?

Don't get me wrong, I very well understand the importance of composer context in regards to both what one writes an the meaning one puts into it. Something written by a staunch capitalist could be said sarcastically by one of opposing economic views, and so context becomes essential. However, I don't quite understand why my age should give anyone ammunition to try and rip holes in my creations. Doesn't make sense, like degrading someone for having a bald spot.

So I'm a teenager. I eat, I sleep, I write and I rant when something pisses me off. Were I 25, I would fine the latter two getting quite a different reception than I do now, even with the same words. I'll go back to my schoolbooks now like a good little girl. Thanks all for reading.

In terms of discussion let me put a few prompt questions up. What are, if any, your personal experiences of ageism? Do you see it as a righteous division or a plague upon intellectual possibility? How much weight do you give to ageist stereotypes?
 

Rock Avich

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Feb 6, 2009
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15 year old here.

People laugh when I say I'm heavily into philosophy and absolutely adore reading books on Quantum Physics...

Also, wouldn't it be Agism?
 

Labyrinth

Escapist Points: 9001
Oct 14, 2007
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Rock Avich said:
15 year old here.

People laugh when I say I'm heavily into philosophy and absolutely adore reading books on Quantum Physics...

Also, wouldn't it be Agism?
Not according to my spell check.

I get that too. I like to argue with people about it, then point out the very meta manner in which they're contradicting their own presumption.
 

Brett Alex

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Jul 22, 2008
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Labyrinth said:
So I'm a teenager. I eat, I sleep, I write and I rant when something pisses me off.
When I was 10, I thought I was old. I'd hit double figures, like come on, how is that not old? I was considered a 'talented' child, put into streamlined classes etc. I worked hard, I was one of the most mature kids I knew (and people always reminded me of it), I even sometimes challenged my teachers on certain points, I thought I was pretty with the program.

When I was 10, I didn't have fucking clue how bus timetables worked.

When I was 12, I thought I was old. I was in year 6 of primary school. I was the school captain, regularly made announcements to the whole assembly (350 students plus teachers), had real discussions about and school issues and events with teachers and thought I was pretty important, and I'd get frustrated when they didn't agree with a completely logical idea that a lot of the students wanted. ("But why can't we have a bike shed?!")

Then, when I was 13, I started year 7, at a high school of 1100.

When I was 15 I thought I was old. I was well into my teenage years, I was finding my groove in high school, involved in lots of extra curricular activities and often asked to do favors (write for the school magazine, mark a sports roll, etc.) by teachers because I was responsible. I was reading Dune, and The Da Vinci Code, watching Pulp Fiction and I was able to easily understand (and sometimes enjoy) Shakespeare where my classmates struggled. Not only did I think I was old, I thought I was older than people my age.

When I was 15, I didn't have a clue how to talk to a girl, let alone ask one out.

I'm 17 now. I've been 17 for almost 12 months. And I think I'm pretty old. I can drive a car, I go out drinking, I can make my own meals, do my washing etc if I'm left alone, I'm doing my HSC, I treat my teachers more like normal people I can talk to than teachers, I regularly get trusted with the school keys and I'm gonna be able vote pretty soon.

Do I think I'm old? Fuck yes I do.

But, I know that I'm not. I know I still have a shitload to learn about life. I've never booked a plane ticket before, driven Sydney to Melbourne, put down a mortgage on a house, needed to work to earn a living, or (very fortunately) had a friend or family member die or any of those other life experiences.

Does that mean all my opinions and thoughts are worthless to people older than me?
I should bloody well hope not.
But does it mean that perhaps certain views of mine are skewed because of my age?
Almost certainly.

So, really roundabout way of saying this:
Be confident in what you say, don't be arrogant. There is always something you don't know.

Inversely, knowing something extra or being smarter than someone does not make you superior.
 

Rock Avich

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That's a very good post (and long) and a very good point (but still so damned long).

I'm not saying I'm superior, I just wish that people wouldn't see my peers in me.
 

ace_of_something

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Sep 19, 2008
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Hrm, back in my college days when i was working at a hardware store; often people would come in for advice and approach me and ask "I have a question." I'd say "About what?" they'd say whatever it was and I'd begin to answer they would interrupt me and say "Can you find someone with more experience?" I'd respond that I know how to do the project they are talking about and have done it myself; I've been working on homes since I was 7 years old (My uncle was a sometimes self employed general contractor and had 6 nephews of free-ish labor). They didn't care or trust me enough to let me answer the question right away they assumed I was too young to know about the subject at hand.

I have a 'young face' so when I became a police officer people would always ask me "HOW OLD IS YOU!?" (sic) when I would give a command (which was rare by the way and If I was issuing commands the person in question already made a decision to be an ass). I would 99% of the time ignore it and reissue the command.



On the other side of this coin.

My father is 60 but not able yet to retire this year as he wished to because of the economic crisis. His job may force him out early (after 35 years of loyal service around the world) giving him only partial retirement benefits and he will be unable to find employment in the same field as no one will hire someone so old so close to retirement, even if he only wants to pay into his 401k and the ilk. They think he doesn't understand the modern workforce even though he's still much a part of it. Okay that's all i can talk about this situation without getting so angry I want to hurt someone.
 

Rock Avich

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Feb 6, 2009
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ace_of_something said:
Hrm, back in my college days when i was working at a hardware store; often people would come in for advice and approach me and ask "I have a question." I'd say "About what?" they'd say whatever it was and I'd begin to answer they would interrupt me and say "Can you find someone with more experience?" I'd respond that I know how to do the project they are talking about and have done it myself; I've been working on homes since I was 7 years old (My uncle was a sometimes self employed general contractor and had 6 nephews of free-ish labor). They didn't care or trust me enough to let me answer the question right away they assumed I was too young to know about the subject at hand.

I have a 'young face' so when I became a police officer people would always ask me "HOW OLD IS YOU!?" when I would give a command (which was rare by the way and If I was issuing commands the person in question already made a decision to be an ass). I would 99% of the time ignore it and reissue the command.



On the other side of this coin.

My father is 60 but not able yet to retire this year as he wished to because of the economic crisis. His job may force him out early (after 35 years of loyal service around the world) giving him only partial retirement benefits and he will be unable to find employment in the same field as no one will hire someone so old so close to retirement, even if he only wants to pay into his 401k and the ilk. They think he doesn't understand the modern workforce even though he's still much a part of it. Okay that's all i can talk about this situation without getting so angry I want to hurt someone.
Well that's a dick move. Just because you look young is no reason to abuse grammar with sentences like, "HOW OLD IS YOU!?"
 

ace_of_something

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Rock Avich said:
Well that's a dick move. Just because you look young is no reason to abuse grammar with sentences like, "HOW OLD IS YOU!?"
Not to change the subject too much but you don't know the half of it. I work at a large jail now and sometimes it's my duty to answer request forms. If you can't stand poor grammar and spelling.... Let's just say after about 5 forms your brain will try to escape your skull.

On subject I get a similar treatment at the jail as well, this is more likely to happen on days when I shave.
 

Labyrinth

Escapist Points: 9001
Oct 14, 2007
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ace_of_something said:
Not to change the subject too much but I work at a large jail now and sometimes it's my duty to answer request forms. If you can't stand poor grammar and spelling.... Let's just say after about 5 forms your brain will try to escape your skull.

On subject I get a similar treatment at the jail as well, this is more likely to happen on days when I shave.
I look older than I am, so I have that advantage.

By the way, welcome back! I haven't seen you in an age.
 

Brett Alex

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Rock Avich said:
That's a very good post (and long) and a very good point (but still so damned long).

I'm not saying I'm superior, I just wish that people wouldn't see my peers in me.
Heh, glad at least someone read it. Yeah was pretty teal;deer, but often I can't stop when I start.

The problem is, stereotyping, by any factor, is natural. You know nothing about a person when you first meet them, so you group them according to similarities to other people you do know.

The process that will make a 60 year old on the bus talk to you like you are an infant is the same as the one that makes you assume said 60 year old has never played Guitar Hero in her life.
 

NeoAC

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Jun 9, 2008
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Thankfully I don't have to worry about ageism anymore. Since I'm a white male, aged 18-39, everyone listens to me, no matter how stupid my ideas are. And boy do I have some doozies!
 

Brett Alex

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NeoAC said:
Since I'm a white male, aged 18-39, everyone listens to me
"Don't you miss the days when white males had all the power, instead of just most of the power?"
 

Labyrinth

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Oct 14, 2007
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Armitage Shanks said:
NeoAC said:
Since I'm a white male, aged 18-39, everyone listens to me
"Don't you miss the days when white males had all the power, instead of just most of the power?"
Unfortunate, isn't it.
 

The Iron Ninja

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Aug 13, 2008
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I can't say it ever bothered me in my teenage years.
I'm 21 now, and look old enough that shopkeepers have stopped asking for Identification when I buy alcohol (the legal age of drinking in my country being 18), yet I'm very, very immature in action and thoughts. So any "oldies" thinking ageist thoughts against me, prejudiced though they may be, are actually correct most of the time. This was true when I was younger as well (excepting of course that I was not acting like a foetus during my toddler years.)
 

NeoAC

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Jun 9, 2008
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The Iron Ninja said:
I'm 21 now, and look old enough that shopkeepers have stopped asking for Identification when I buy alcohol
I haven't been ID'd since I was 17. Sigh. :(
 

Yog Sothoth

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Dec 6, 2008
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age discrimination is usually just as wrong as discrimination for any other reason i.e. sex, race, religion, etc...

however there is one thing that older folks always have that the younger ones don't: experience. if you're still in your teens, then there are some things that you simply can not know: what it's like to be married for 50 years, how it feels to raise kids from childhood to adulthood, or how working for the same employer for 20 years influences your perspective.

as i read through the entire OP, the thing that kept coming to mind was the film Good Will Hunting, specifically the point in the movie when Robin William's character, after struggling for so long to figure out this child genius (Matt Damon's character), and then he realized: he's just a kid. no matter how smart, how educated or how talented he was, he was still just a kid with very little life experience.

Labyrinth, i understand where you're coming from. being a slightly smarter than average kid myself growing up, i got a lot of the same crap that you're talking about. but try to take it all with a grain of salt, and realize that even as smart and talented as you are, there is still much for you to learn, and much that others can teach you. and go out and live and experience life.

but you didn't need me to tell you that........
 

prefectimo

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Feb 4, 2009
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When I was in year 11 I had to do an essay on something, I can't recall. The essay was done only in class and was done in 1 sitting. This was all fine and so when I finished I handed in my essay. A couple of days later the teacher held me back after class to have a little chat.

The teacher held me back to tell me that she had thought I had cheated and had got a Uni student doing journalism to do my work because it was of such a high standard. This was a lie and I pointed that out to her by recalling the events of that class.

I had entered the class without a pen and without the sheet of possible essay question and I had to borrow both off the teacher. She admitted to remembering this and, wait for it here is the kicker, she gave me a B+. I protested saying how could she acuse me of cheating one moment then the next she is giving me sub-par grades for what I was acused of. She told me that I should be happy with what I got and that I was lucky that I wasn't in more trouble.
 

MaxFan

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Nov 15, 2008
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I get this sometimes from people,

Them: I need the manager.
Me: How may I help you?
Them: No, I mean like the person in charge right now.
Me: Present.
Them: ...aren't you a bit young?
Me: (I so want to punch you, if only we didn't have security cameras) What did you need?
 

Labyrinth

Escapist Points: 9001
Oct 14, 2007
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prefectimo said:
When I was in year 11 I had to do an essay on something, I can't recall. The essay was done only in class and was done in 1 sitting. This was all fine and so when I finished I handed in my essay. A couple of days later the teacher held me back after class to have a little chat.

The teacher held me back to tell me that she had thought I had cheated and had got a Uni student doing journalism to do my work because it was of such a high standard. This was a lie and I pointed that out to her by recalling the events of that class.

I had entered the class without a pen and without the sheet of possible essay question and I had to borrow both off the teacher. She admitted to remembering this and, wait for it here is the kicker, she gave me a B+. I protested saying how could she accuse me of cheating one moment then the next she is giving me sub-par grades for what I was accused of. She told me that I should be happy with what I got and that I was lucky that I wasn't in more trouble.
I would have complained to the head teacher around about that point. Seriously, that's bullshit. Not only was she unjustified in the original complaint, she punishes you for being too good? Talk about tall poppy syndrome.