Where Dragon Age 2 Lost Me... (no spoilers)

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steverivers

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Jun 7, 2010
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This isnt going to be a "zomg, i hate DA2, its the antichrist" post. Because lets face it, there's more than enough extreme fanboiz and haters on both sides of the argument.

Simply put, i looked at the game from my own point of view and looked at what i found wrong with it that made me dislike it more than any Bioware game ive played before. Yes it dumbs down the genre, but its also not the worst game in history, either.

As an avid RPGer, a sci fi and fantasy fan, and lover of good books with good stories, it was these traits that made me love Bioware games. Their tight stories, well told, that got the mix of everything just right. It made me accept and overlook the minor flaws that every game has, and helped me forget them by sucking me into the world Bioware created.

But that story, that act of being sucked into wanting to know what happens next to Hawke never happened.



Why? Because for me, Dragon Age 2 seemed to suffer from one fatal flaw -

A meandering account of stuff that "just happens".
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I noted in my mind when actual plot points occured in my gametime, after being 5 hours in and wondering when something was going to happen main plot wise.

10 hours.

10 hours of sidequests before it had tried to allude it was building up to something that would happen. Before then, Hawke was just mulling about.

Then, when that first stage is reached, you think "Finally! Something is going to happ..."

Then, you return to Kirkwall, and are put back to work on -another- 10 hours of sidequests.
Sidequests that build up to an event that was clearly designed for the story in the next game, not this one.

At this point, i thought... "Is there even a main plot TO this game?"

Then the main plot begins. ... 20 hours...

20 hours into the game, then Bioware rushed the main plot by in the remaining 10 hours; and even then, was very pushed through and contrived in places.


For me, any game that takes 20 hours to start the main plot is born out of a lack of a good script/story director.

The Qunari thing could have been worked into the story *as* the the main plot was happening. It could have even helped make the world seem like everything was going to hell twice as bad.

Seperating the two made it feel bitty, segmented, and ultimately disjointed.

Combined with the sheer timescale, the chain of the events felt as if it hadnt been thought through long enough.

If it was a book, you'd of put it down before you reached the main plot.


As i say, Bioware's best defense in the past was it overcame it's gameplay flaws with telling a great tale. A tight story that kept you wanting to know what happens next. It didnt matter in Dragon Age Origins if the party tactic commands were a bit crap, or the blood splatter over their faces looked ridiculously like someone had exploded a bottle of tomato ketchup... the plot and story kept you playing.


This time, for me, the flaws were worse, and there was nothing to overcome them because my character didnt seem to have any direction for 20 hours out of the 30... And after that 20 i was sighing so much that i spent the last 10 doubting the real story actually *was* the real story, or if it was going to peter out like the first two.

The lack of Darkspawn also for the first time made me ponder if they're even going to bring the matter up in the final game. Isnt that what Dragon Age was meant to be about? It's version of Mass Effect Reapers, KotOR's Sith? LotR's Sauron?

But regardless, for any game to take that long to get anywhere with its story, when its the story that is meant to be the shining star, be it a game, a movie or a reader, loses the reader, the watcher, or the player - and lets our mind wander... which stops us being sucked into the world we're meant to be immersed in.

DA2 basically, for me, needed a rewrite in the scripting and planning stage. It was Bioware's best trait in the past, and when all else fails - its what made us keep buying their games.

Hopefully, this and the slightly less one-dimensional Mass Effect 2 are blips. But it is a worrying thought that this was the first game Bioware created from start to finish since being taken over by EA.

There, i got it off my chest. I hope some fanboiz can understand why it is possible to feel let down by this game from the explanation above. And also the haters can realize that this also doesnt not make Bioware the antichrist ;)
 

Erana

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Feb 28, 2008
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Dragon Age has always come off to me as a game where you should only play it if you're in a patient mood, looking for meandering around a fantasy land, fixing everything. Do you feel that with the main plot so far away, you feel the experience altogether less compelling, or more that the story is just meandering?
(Not saying your points weren't clear, just looking for your input on these specific ideas)

But with this backlash, Bioware's no doubt going to listen to what the fans are saying. I haven't gotten my hands on the DA2 yet, but its nice to hear rational criticism for once, addressing what one has problems with, and not the degree to which it bothered you.
Thanks.
 

The Wykydtron

"Emotions are very important!"
Sep 23, 2010
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To be honest i thought it was pretty ballsy of Bioware to make sidequests part of the main quest for the first few hours. It's nice to see them stop with the "go to three places, get support, go to one or two other places, endgame." As much as i love their games that's been their main quest layout since forever.
 

Sniper Team 4

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I see where you're coming from. Personally I like the idea of simply living a life and slowly getting caught up in things that, at first, don't have anything to do with you. It almost feels like playing a MMORPG at points. I haven't beaten the game yet, but I keep hearing that it's setting up for something big in the next game, so I'm looking forward to that.

Also, you can sort of tell what the plot's going to be about if you listen to people. Even from the start. Heck, it's even on the title screen. The two characters facing each other...
 

StriderShinryu

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I actually liked the slow progression and build of the storyline. I do agree that the 3rd act felt a little too rushed and the second act received a little too much focus seeing as how it had so relatively little impact overall, but that's about it. I liked the fact that you weren't chasing some big bad the whole game and did sort of experience 10 years or so in the life of a city and the people who shaped it during that time.

The number of sidequests seemed normal for me, though I tended to do them all as soon as they came up before moving on just in case some were time sensitive, so I can certainly see where some arguments about the game being nothing but mindless pointless sidequests might be coming from. If you space them out between the story events I doubt it would feel that way.
 

MetallicaRulez0

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Aug 27, 2008
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I completely agree. There was a definite lack of story in the first parts of the game, and then all of a sudden shit hits the fan and the last act is chock-full of stuff going on. It could have used some better pacing.
 

Hader

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Jul 7, 2010
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steverivers said:
The lack of Darkspawn also for the first time made me ponder if they're even going to bring the matter up in the final game. Isnt that what Dragon Age was meant to be about? It's version of Mass Effect Reapers, KotOR's Sith? LotR's Sauron?
It's called Dragon Age, not "Rise of the Darkspawn" or anything. They can have it take place wherever they want and around whomever they want in Thedas, who said it had to be limited to darkspawn? I rather enjoy the darkspawn taking a backseat here, I want to explore more of Thedas, and while we only really get Kirkwall in DA2, it's a step forward in revealing more about the world of Thedas regardless of darkspawn presence.

steverivers said:
If it was a book, you'd of put it down before you reached the main plot.
But, isn't it a book?

Wait wait you're right, if it was just a book...Varric would be so disappointed!

steverivers said:
After my first playthrough, I wouldn't say that the main plot is at all 'disconnected' as you say. Really, to me, it was real obvious it was about the mages and their plight against the Chantry from the very start of the game. Tensions are obvious, and what with all the choices you make involving mages, blood magic, templars, etc., you know that shit's going down here in Kirkwall. And the Qunari are just as much part of the main plot as anything else. Why can't they be? The game takes place over a decade, to limit the main plot to one specific point is absurd. The whole point of the *some spoilers here*
expedition, Qunari presence, and them eventually leaving the city, all have a big role in Hawke's life. The expedition makes him rich, and eventually makes that idol fall into Meridith's hands. Killing the Arishok makes him champion. I think that point is important seeing as Varric refers to him as The Champion so much, just like you were known as The Warden in Origins.

And sidequests are just sidequests, still no need to do most of them, but I do each and every one because this time around, I actually felt the sidequests had a bit more depth and mattered a bit more. This doesn't go for every sidequest, but looking at the number of ones that involve mages and templars, some are more relevant to the plot than not. Plus, some are just fun. Maybe it's just me, but I like getting the most out of a playthrough. And I loved DA2 for what it did in that department.

And no, I am not a Bioware fanboy. But I loved Origins and despite all the bad rep DA2 was getting pre-release, I remained optimistic and I was rewarded with a game experience I enjoyed just as much, if not more than, Origins.

Plus, I love the new hairstyles they made available, finally got one for my Hawke that does my own style a bit of justice. Sexiest Man-Hawke, right here!
 

DVS Storm

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Jul 13, 2009
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You are making a valid point there. I personally like the way they do things in DA2 but it isn't the perfect game either. It isn't any wonder that some don't like the game imo. I personally think that the game shouldn't be called Dragon age 2 but insted Dragon Age:Hawke or Kirkwall or some epic name.
 

Apollo45

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Jan 30, 2011
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Agree completely. Typically the stories Bioware puts out more than make up for any faults in gameplay throughout their games. This time, however... Well, for the first third I felt like a normal guy (who just happened to be able to leap twenty feet through the air with a pair of knives)trying to get money. While "realistic" and "closer to home", I don't want to play a game where the only goal is to earn money, at least not like this. If I wanted to do that, I'd just stick to my real life, thanks.

The last two thirds of the game had good ideas, but in all honestly they were played off kinda poorly, with too many useless sidequests and not enough diversity in the style, areas, or types of quests to make it interesting. I've made the book comparison before; if I were reading it I would've put it down in about twenty pages, especially since it skipped over the most exciting thing that happened in the first third (your year as a smuggler/mercenary).
 

Wolfram23

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I certainly see where you're coming from. But my counter argument is that this game isn't like a book. I feel the point of it is to flesh out the characters and basically Kirkwall and surrounding areas at your leasure. You don't have to do all the side quests. You can rush through and just do the few main quests if you'd like.

I honestly am enjoying my time with DA2. It's just fun. I really like the streamlined conversation system. And this is from someone who didn't like ME, hasn't played ME2, didn't like DA:O much, does like Fallout 3, but less so New Vegas. And I love Demon's Souls. Didn't like FFXIII, and found Oblivion mediocre... aaanyway. I know there's parts of the game that don't feel like a "true RPG" because it doesn't allow customizing ally armour or progressing non combat skills or whatever, but I think of it as simply a different take on the genre. One that proves, to me, to be very entertaining.

I guess I'm more into fun combat and story/characters than other normal RPG tropes like huge amount of customizing and gearing. Although I like that too, as a former WoW player I'm used to browsing wikis and finding that perfect set of armour and the perfect combination of talen points...

I don't know where this ramble is going so I'm going to stop now.
 

godofallu

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Jun 8, 2010
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Very valid point. The story in the beginning just seemed so boring.

We have arrived but will we get in? Um... obviously the dwarf from the start said we would meet him in there. You already ruined your "dramatic tension".

You have to be a slave for a year... yeah but we get to skip that year anyways so it's meaningless. Again tension ruined.

Your brother died, yeah but he was a lvl 1 noob with a very annoying attitude who I disliked immensely. Gripping moment ruined.

Don't worry you meet an elf chick. Yeah but her voice makes me want to scream, and her character is as pathetic as possible. If only I had a choice to not take her as a character... like in the first two where you could choose who joins. I said nty to the gay elf in Origins, why not in the sequel?