Who else thinks this is a load of bull?

[ajb924]

Ok, lets get this out of the way, i didnt know what thread to put this in, the news one or this 1. Now on to the rant.
I was watching the news this morning and the story about the holocaust museum shooting was on. Now at one point they said "These museum gaurds carry guns, not even airline security does that." So i thought to myself, why would this mueseum be more important then airline safety. Turns out its because people could commit hate crimes at the museum. I thought "Wow, so your telling me that America is more worried about people being offended then it is about avioding another 9/11" I think that not only airline security should cary guns, but the pilots should too! Hell museum guards can but pilots can't to protect uor country!? What are your opinions?

 

[Hazy]

Lets face it:
Who's more likely to provoke a riot: Thousands upon Thousands who's family members died during the holocaust, or around 20-30 people that died during 9/11 aboard the plane? (Both were extremely Tragic)
And aren't there Air Marshalls on Airlines now?

 

[TwistedEllipses]

It's not any old museum, it's a holocaust museum and that is religiously and politically (because of association with Israel) a target for extremists.
Anyway airport security DO carry guns, air marshals DO carry guns...

 

[ajb924]

It's not any old museum, it's a holocaust museum and that is religiously and politically (because of association with Israel) a target for extremists. Airport security DO carry guns, air marshals DO carry guns...

What i was watching said that they could only carry tazers, u may be right, ill look into that

 

[sharks9]

I dont think ANYONE, even the pilots should have guns on the plane. Then terrorists wouldn't have to sneak guns on the plane, just steal them from the pilots.

 

[TopHatTim]

Ok, lets get this out of the way, i didnt know what thread to put this in, the news one or this 1. Now on to the rant.
I was watching the news this morning and the story about the holocaust museum shooting was on. Now at one point they said "These museum gaurds carry guns, not even airline security does that." So i thought to myself, why would this mueseum be more important then airline safety. Turns out its because people could commit hate crimes at the museum. I thought "Wow, so your telling me that America is more worried about people being offended then it is about avioding another 9/11" I think that not only airline security should cary guns, but the pilots should too! Hell museum guards can but pilots can't to protect uor country!? What are your opinions?

This my friends is lack of research.

1. ever fire off a gun in a pressurised cabin?

2. bullets go straight through the side of the plane really.

3. of course they DID use paper bullets but they switched to tasers and batons.

4. if someone got hold of that ONE pistol. they have the plane. (appearently i pilot really thinks a man will shoot the only 2 people who know how to fly that mother fucker and drop 30 thousand feet to hard hard ground)

5. sky marshals are always on board a plane you just dont realise who they are. (i agree uniformed security should be aboard)

 

[TopHatTim]

It's not any old museum, it's a holocaust museum and that is religiously and politically (because of association with Israel) a target for extremists. Airport security DO carry guns, air marshals DO carry guns...

What i was watching said that they could only carry tazers, u may be right, ill look into that

used to carry guns with paper bullets so the bullets didnt decide to penetrate a pressurised cabin at 30 thousand feet (paper bullets cuase alot of bounce and no exit of anything...)
now they carry tasers and collapsable batons.

 

[TopHatTim]

Lets face it:
Who's more likely to provoke a riot: Thousands upon Thousands who's family members died during the holocaust, or around 20-30 people that died during 9/11 aboard the plane? (Both were extremely Tragic)
And aren't there Air Marshalls on Airlines now?

you know over 3000 people died in 9/11.

and the holocuast has like a 30 million death toll or something like that (correct if wrong)

 

[The Admiral]

Lets face it:
Who's more likely to provoke a riot: Thousands upon Thousands who's family members died during the holocaust, or around 20-30 people that died during 9/11 aboard the plane? (Both were extremely Tragic)
And aren't there Air Marshalls on Airlines now?

I think your numbers are a bit off on 9/11 add two 0s on the end of those numbers and you should be good. Yes sky marshals do carry guns onto the planes. And there is armed security at airports should the need arise.

I don't know if you have been to DC recently but ALL the guards at every museum/monument/land mark carry weapons. So yes America is more worried about attacks in it's capital than terrorist trying the same trick twice.

 

[Hazy]

Lets face it:
Who's more likely to provoke a riot: Thousands upon Thousands who's family members died during the holocaust, or around 20-30 people that died during 9/11 aboard the plane? (Both were extremely Tragic)
And aren't there Air Marshalls on Airlines now?

you know over 3000 people died in 9/11.

and the holocuast has like a 30 million death toll or something like that (correct if wrong)

Notice my post. I said Aboard the Plane.
Many died in 9/11, I lost an Uncle.

 

[Hazy]

Lets face it:
Who's more likely to provoke a riot: Thousands upon Thousands who's family members died during the holocaust, or around 20-30 people that died during 9/11 aboard the plane? (Both were extremely Tragic)
And aren't there Air Marshalls on Airlines now?

I think your numbers are a bit off on 9/11 add two 0s on the end of those numbers and you should be good. Yes sky marshals do carry guns onto the planes. And there is armed security at airports should the need arise.

I don't know if you have been to DC recently but ALL the guards at every museum/monument/land mark carry weapons. So yes America is more worried about attacks in it's capital than terrorist trying the same trick twice.

Read the Bold Text. Aboard the Plane (Or however many there were, my memory is a bit fuzzy, but I think there were two.) Like I just said, many died in 9/11, I know that. I lost an Uncle.

 

[The Admiral]

oh well in that case you were probably too distraught to realize there were FOUR airplanes carrying a few hundred passengers.

 

[Naeo]

Air Marshals (or Sky Marshals, depending on what terminology you prefer) are undercover federal agents on many flights who carry concealed weapons and are authorized to shoot to kill if needed. They don't give themselves away and look like perfectly normal people except when they get up and start shooting at people.

But somehow, they don't seem to have managed to actually stop much from happening.

 

[quiet_samurai]

"Wow, so your telling me that America is more worried about people being offended then it is about avioding another 9/11"

A hate crime has nothing to do with people being offended, all crimes are offensive first of all. And secondly, a hate crime is based on anothers prejudices like racism or ethnocentricism. The Holocaust is a very shaky issue to this day even after so many years, and supremacist groups are constantly calling in bomb threats or showing up to deface the museums property. If a place is being constantly threatened with violence having armed personal around is about the only thing feasible to counteract this.

And we don't let pilots carry firearmson a plane for the same reason we don't let airport security as well. Adding firearms into a situation just makes the possibilty for a terrorist or criminal to get his hands on it greater or make the chances of something going drastically wrong higher. And i don't think we'll see another 9/11, If you don't believe me next time you are on a plane jump up and tell everyone not to move if they don't want to get hurt and see what happens to you.

 

[sheic99]

Lets face it:
Who's more likely to provoke a riot: Thousands upon Thousands who's family members died during the holocaust, or around 20-30 people that died during 9/11 aboard the plane? (Both were extremely Tragic)
And aren't there Air Marshalls on Airlines now?

you know over 3000 people died in 9/11.

and the holocuast has like a 30 million death toll or something like that (correct if wrong)

It was 11 million. It was 20 million in the USSR.

This my friends is lack of research.

1. ever fire off a gun in a pressurised cabin?

3. of course they DID use paper bullets but they switched to tasers and batons.

1. They did that in Mythbuster, it just makes a lot of noise and the pilots will lower the plane.

3.I've never heard of paper bullets, I figured rubber was far more pratical.

 

[Insanum]

I though you cant fire a gun in a pressurised container (i.e plane Fusealage).

Over in britain our airport have armed police (glocks if im not mistaken) at airports...and civi security at Museum.

But we're uncivilised and it only tends too be school trips that go too museum.

 

[RavingPenguin]

Ok, lets get this out of the way, i didnt know what thread to put this in, the news one or this 1. Now on to the rant.
I was watching the news this morning and the story about the holocaust museum shooting was on. Now at one point they said "These museum gaurds carry guns, not even airline security does that." So i thought to myself, why would this mueseum be more important then airline safety. Turns out its because people could commit hate crimes at the museum. I thought "Wow, so your telling me that America is more worried about people being offended then it is about avioding another 9/11" I think that not only airline security should cary guns, but the pilots should too! Hell museum guards can but pilots can't to protect uor country!? What are your opinions?

This my friends is lack of research.

1. ever fire off a gun in a pressurised cabin?

2. bullets go straight through the side of the plane really.

3. of course they DID use paper bullets but they switched to tasers and batons.

4. if someone got hold of that ONE pistol. they have the plane. (appearently i pilot really thinks a man will shoot the only 2 people who know how to fly that mother fucker and drop 30 thousand feet to hard hard ground)

5. sky marshals are always on board a plane you just dont realise who they are. (i agree uniformed security should be aboard)

What is the relevance of your first 2 points?
I agree about the air mashals, most flights do have at least 1 marshal, who does carry a gun. Usually he sits near the front of the plane so the pilots cant be taken hostage.

About the topic: Does this really matter? We've established that both cases require guns, and both positions (to the best of my knowledge) are armed with guns. So whats the point?

 

[ConstantJoe]

Lets face it:
Who's more likely to provoke a riot: Thousands upon Thousands who's family members died during the holocaust, or around 20-30 people that died during 9/11 aboard the plane? (Both were extremely Tragic)
And aren't there Air Marshalls on Airlines now?

you know over 3000 people died in 9/11.

and the holocuast has like a 30 million death toll or something like that (correct if wrong)

Notice my post. I said Aboard the Plane.
Many died in 9/11, I lost an Uncle.

A friend of mine's uncle worked in the Twin Towers. On 9/11 he was heading in for work, but on the way there he realised he'd forgotten his phone. He turned back and got it. On the way back in he'd heard on the radio that the towers were hit :O

 

[Benny Blanco]

The usually cited figure for the Holocaust is 6 million, but the figures are likely to be higher as many of the other groups targeted (e.g. Homosexuals, Roma) were not known for keeping written membership lists and in addition much of the records kept by the Nazis were destroyed during the advance of the Western Allies and the Soviet forces toward Berlin.

Stalin's anti-Jewish pogroms and other internal purges killed more, but should not be considered part of the holocaust as they occurred later.

One of the scary things about terror attacks on planes is that although many people (security or passengers acting on their own initiative) would probably attempt to tackle a lone hijacker in the post 9/11 era, there is a good chance that terrorists would also use sleeper/spotters on planes and they would take out the first people to react to the hijack.

Don't forget, holocaust denial is not unique to Neo-Nazis, many Islamic extremists also object to the political capital which has been made from the Shoah by Jewish causes and the Israel lobby and might target holocaust memorials for this reason.