Why did kids anime dubs have to be more dumbed down than western cartoons?

[themistermanguy]

Back in the 2000s anime boom, Anime imported from Japan by US distributors had to be heavily modified for American children, sometimes to the point of insult. Dragon Ball Z, Sailor Moon, Cardcaptors, nearly anything from 4kids, all had overly hammy voice acting, erasing of Japanese culture, removal of any death, blood, violence, or mature subject matter, and writing and plots that were heavily dumbed down for kids. Yet, compare that to Western cartoons at the time. Batman the Animated series, and Batman Beyond, X-men Evolution, Samurai Jack, Powerpuff Girls, Johnny Bravo, TMNT 2003, and others. Death was a frequent theme, guns could be used on occasion, plots could be complex, themes could be dark, and writing could be snappy and mature, even slipping in some more mature humor that goes over the heads of the grade school set.

So why were American kids shows allowed to get away with stuff that had to be removed from anime when brought over? It was already proven that kids could handle most of this stuff, which isn't aren't even that controversial. You'd think the executives importing these shows would've caught on.

 

[SupahEwok]

Censors were afraid of the immorality of the Japanese infecting good ol' American childrens.

15 years on after localization started winding down, with the rise of the Weeb with his daikumuras and 4chan neckbeards, I think they were on to something.

 

[balladbird]

They weren't really held to a particularly more rigid standard than the others, really. There were rare exceptions on the western side of things, but not as many as you may think.

Looking at the examples you gave, for instance, many of them had the same limitations anime at the time was forced to hold to. X-men and TMNT could ALLUDE to death being a factor in their stories, sure, but they couldn't actually call it such. They were always "taken out", "eliminated", "ended", or "destroyed". While the occasional gun might have been allowed, more often than not they were never fired, and if they were, they usually released laser blasts rather than bullets.


As to differences in writing quality, while I do think nostalgia is coloring your memory of the shows you listed, based on your wording, it's probably true that western cartoons did have a bit more care behind them than the localizations of anime. Western cartoons were being crafted by their creators, who had personal investment in them and a story to tell. Anime was a pre-packaged story, and the localization crews were just adjusting it so they could air it to a different audience.

 

[Squilookle]

I'd say a huge part of the problem is that American dubs think that the most important thing of all is to have a character speaking for every nanosecond their lips appear to move. As a result, everyone in an American dub of an anime rambles nonstop about unimportant things all the time. Dialogue would be completely re-written constantly and often lose its edge, nuance, or meaning entirely. And mature themes are probably the first casualty to go.

 

[themistermanguy]

Looking at the examples you gave, for instance, many of them had the same limitations anime at the time was forced to hold to. X-men and TMNT could ALLUDE to death being a factor in their stories, sure, but they couldn't actually call it such. They were always "taken out", "eliminated", "ended", or "destroyed". While the occasional gun might have been allowed, more often than not they were never fired, and if they were, they usually released laser blasts rather than bullets.

I'd say it more depends on the show and network. Some kids networks will allow for more leeway than others. TMNT 2003 for example, was still a 4kids show on Saturday morning broadcast television, so executives probably would've wanted to play it more safe. Meanwhile, something like Batman Beyond could have more leniency in content it could show. Even if some of them didn't mention death directly, characters still died, or were threatened with death. Stark contrast compared to something like Sailor Moon which had to rewrite entire scenes and plot-lines to make sure nobody dies, ever.

 

[I can't enter my old name]

They also removed the gayness from Cardcaptor Sakura and Sailor Moon. Practically every character in Cardcaptor Sakura was gay, not even exaggerating, so it's quite the accomplishment.

But as the others have said, it's quite consistent. The US is quite overprotective of children, where showing blood is apparently too horrific for kids. Half of these kids are playing GTA and watching you know what on the internet, but there's also the other half of children whose parents assume they will be corrupted by the media and lock everything down. Children's media companies don't want to be held responsible when a large group of insane helicopter parents claim Pokemon is satanic.

 

[twistedmic]

Batman the Animated series, and Batman Beyond, X-men Evolution, Samurai Jack, Powerpuff Girls, Johnny Bravo, TMNT 2003, and others.

Being nitpicky here, but Batman: TAS, Powerpuff Girls and Johnny Bravo were out in the mid to late nineties when censors were a little more lax and let more things slide. Even then, though, guns rarely made an appearance, were fired even more rarely and shots almost never hit a living being.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

That's strictly an american phenomenon cause the same shows were shown uncensored in Greece at the time. They also maintained the original music too and didn't americanize it. I still don't get why they had to go along and make new music on top of the dub. At least with the dub it's to make it understandable to little kids who can't read but the music is just instrumental.

 

[Marik2]

Censors were afraid of the immorality of the Japanese infecting good ol' American childrens.

15 years on after localization started winding down, with the rise of the Weeb with his daikumuras and 4chan neckbeards, I think they were on to something.

Yup. I sometimes see 10 year olds at the library who check out ecchi anime and manga. Parents try to steer their kids away from it.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Censors were afraid of the immorality of the Japanese infecting good ol' American childrens.

15 years on after localization started winding down, with the rise of the Weeb with his daikumuras and 4chan neckbeards, I think they were on to something.

Yup. I sometimes see 10 year olds at the library who check out ecchi anime and manga. Parents try to steer their kids away from it.

Wouldn't the same kids check out playboys at the magazine stand 20+ years ago? How is that any different?

 

[SupahEwok]

Censors were afraid of the immorality of the Japanese infecting good ol' American childrens.

15 years on after localization started winding down, with the rise of the Weeb with his daikumuras and 4chan neckbeards, I think they were on to something.

Yup. I sometimes see 10 year olds at the library who check out ecchi anime and manga. Parents try to steer their kids away from it.

Wouldn't the same kids check out playboys at the magazine stand 20+ years ago? How is that any different?

Playboys were photos of real women, not waifus (and Playboy was softcore besides, none of the freaky shit that it is incredibly common for Japanese stuff to get up to because their market is so glutted they need ways to stand out).

 

[Marik2]

Censors were afraid of the immorality of the Japanese infecting good ol' American childrens.

15 years on after localization started winding down, with the rise of the Weeb with his daikumuras and 4chan neckbeards, I think they were on to something.

Yup. I sometimes see 10 year olds at the library who check out ecchi anime and manga. Parents try to steer their kids away from it.

Wouldn't the same kids check out playboys at the magazine stand 20+ years ago? How is that any different?

Playboys were photos of real women, not waifus (and Playboy was softcore besides, none of the freaky shit that it is incredibly common for Japanese stuff to get up to because their market is so glutted they need ways to stand out).

This

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Censors were afraid of the immorality of the Japanese infecting good ol' American childrens.

15 years on after localization started winding down, with the rise of the Weeb with his daikumuras and 4chan neckbeards, I think they were on to something.

Yup. I sometimes see 10 year olds at the library who check out ecchi anime and manga. Parents try to steer their kids away from it.

Wouldn't the same kids check out playboys at the magazine stand 20+ years ago? How is that any different?

Playboys were photos of real women, not waifus (and Playboy was softcore besides, none of the freaky shit that it is incredibly common for Japanese stuff to get up to because their market is so glutted they need ways to stand out).

They also showed way more skin than what you see on an average ecchii manga. You may be thinking of pornographic hentai doujins or something. Most ecchii manga doesn't even have visible nipples.

 

[Marik2]

Censors were afraid of the immorality of the Japanese infecting good ol' American childrens.

15 years on after localization started winding down, with the rise of the Weeb with his daikumuras and 4chan neckbeards, I think they were on to something.

Yup. I sometimes see 10 year olds at the library who check out ecchi anime and manga. Parents try to steer their kids away from it.

Wouldn't the same kids check out playboys at the magazine stand 20+ years ago? How is that any different?

Playboys were photos of real women, not waifus (and Playboy was softcore besides, none of the freaky shit that it is incredibly common for Japanese stuff to get up to because their market is so glutted they need ways to stand out).

They also showed way more skin than what you see on an average ecchii manga. You may be thinking of pornographic hentai doujins or something. Most ecchii manga doesn't even have visible nipples.

Ecchi manga has gotten way more porn like in the past decade.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Censors were afraid of the immorality of the Japanese infecting good ol' American childrens.

15 years on after localization started winding down, with the rise of the Weeb with his daikumuras and 4chan neckbeards, I think they were on to something.

Yup. I sometimes see 10 year olds at the library who check out ecchi anime and manga. Parents try to steer their kids away from it.

Wouldn't the same kids check out playboys at the magazine stand 20+ years ago? How is that any different?

Playboys were photos of real women, not waifus (and Playboy was softcore besides, none of the freaky shit that it is incredibly common for Japanese stuff to get up to because their market is so glutted they need ways to stand out).

They also showed way more skin than what you see on an average ecchii manga. You may be thinking of pornographic hentai doujins or something. Most ecchii manga doesn't even have visible nipples.

Ecchi manga has gotten way more porn like in the past decade.

Not really, you may be simply thinking of a couple of exceptions and attributing their traits to the entire genre. Or you may be confusing it for ero. Ecchi is stuff like Shokugeki no Souma.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

Ecchi manga has gotten way more porn like in the past decade.

Not really, you may be simply thinking of a couple of exceptions and attributing their traits to the entire genre. Or you may be confusing it for ero. Ecchi is stuff like Shokugeki no Souma.

No, I'd say Marik2 has a point.

The boundary for what is still considered ecchi rather than full-on hentai has arguably shifted towards more explicit the past decade or so. Manga like Velvet Kiss, Nozoki Ana, Kiss x Sis, Aki Sora, Nana To Kaoru, Mujaki no Rakuen & Futari no Ecchi are borderline cases, often showing sexual fetishes and sex scenes, but are still shy of being as explicit as hentai.

I suppose the posterboy for these borderline-h ecchi manga would be To Love-Ru Darkness, which was popular enough to get several anime adaptations. While the original manga has no real sex scenes, writer/artist Kentaro Yabuki probably had a field day sneaking as many (sometimes barely hidden) drawings of the girls uncensored vaginas past the censors as he could. For obvious reasons, I will not post examples.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Ecchi manga has gotten way more porn like in the past decade.

Not really, you may be simply thinking of a couple of exceptions and attributing their traits to the entire genre. Or you may be confusing it for ero. Ecchi is stuff like Shokugeki no Souma.

No, I'd say Marik2 has a point.

The boundary for what is still considered ecchi rather than full-on hentai has arguably shifted towards more explicit the past decade or so. Manga like Velvet Kiss, Nozoki Ana, Kiss x Sis, Aki Sora, Nana To Kaoru, Mujaki no Rakuen & Futari no Ecchi are borderline cases, often showing sexual fetishes and sex scenes, but are still shy of being as explicit as hentai.

I suppose the posterboy for these borderline-h ecchi manga would be To Love-Ru Darkness, which was popular enough to get several anime adaptations. While the original manga has no real sex scenes, writer/artist Kentaro Yabuki probably had a field day sneaking as many (sometimes barely hidden) drawings of the girls uncensored vaginas past the censors as he could. For obvious reasons, I will not post examples.

To love ru and kiss x sis are what I was referring to with ero and not ecchii. Ecchii is generic sexual humor the kind of which you find in Dragonball, it's not all that heavy. And yeah, those series do not represent the entire genre, they're just standout examples that people know due to their notoriety rather than due to their numerous nature.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

To love ru and kiss x sis are what I was referring to with ero and not ecchii. Ecchii is generic sexual humor the kind of which you find in Dragonball, it's not all that heavy. And yeah, those series do not represent the entire genre, they're just standout examples that people know due to their notoriety rather than due to their numerous nature.

Ah ok, I see. That's a little confusing tho, because eromanga is also an (older) term and synonym for hentai manga.

Eromanga is also a tiny town in Queensland, Australia.

Spoiler: No, for realsies

 

[Casual Shinji]

Once I found out they even dubbed Totoro's "voice" in My Neighbor Totoro (a character who just makes grunting/roaring noises), I just stopped asking these questions.

That's strictly an american phenomenon cause the same shows were shown uncensored in Greece at the time. They also maintained the original music too and didn't americanize it. I still don't get why they had to go along and make new music on top of the dub. At least with the dub it's to make it understandable to little kids who can't read but the music is just instrumental.

Same here in the Netherlands. We got Maple Town with the much better intro and outro, and without Shelley Duval.

 

[CaitSeith]

Well, some bias must had been afoot in 4Kids and similar (remember that it wasn't anime experts who took the decisions there).