Why do people think Socialism is Evil

[Rajin Cajun]

Yeah socialisms absolutley horrible sucks having an nhs and seeing a doctor withing 15 minutes of calling every time or free prescriptions when a student/unemployed or free operations or free dental care if unemployed/a student how the hell have we not started eating each other yet?!?

RUN AMERICA RUN FROM THIS NIGHTMARE! /sarcasm

This made me laugh pretty hard mostly because it is sooooo stereotypical of my fellow Americans. Hell I guess you can't expect much when you have talking heads like Glenn Beck who tell everyone that healthcare is a privilege and not a right. I guess Glenn Beck should tell that to people who have had children die in childbirth since we have the highest infant mortality rate in the First World. I guess having your babies die is a privilege. Hur Hur. And for those who couldn't tell I'm being sarcastic about the last bit.

To be honest the lack of adopting certain Socialist programs is the biggest reason I am looking at leaving this country. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if one of my children died because of our shoddy medical system. I am more then willing to give up my Second Amendment Rights which I hold dear if it means I can raise children with a good education and proper medical care.

Our shoddy medical system that just gave a woman who couldn't eat, drink, or breathe without a tube in her throat a face transplant (One of the first, and the most extensive) so she can do all those things normally again? She may disagree with you.

Haha ignorance is bliss. The first face transplant was done in India with France right behind it. So you were saying?

That's why I said ONE of the first, but the most extensive. But I guess any old shoddy medical system can do that now, it's just those first timers that are up to par. And where are you expecting to find better? There's already multiple people from universal health care countries talking about 3-5 hour waits in this thread.

You should visit an inner-city American Hospital where they turn away people at ERs. 5 hour waits would be heaven. Maybe you should get out of your Ivory Tower a little and see the real America.

 

[Anomynous 167]

If you must spam me with hate, remember, I'm 15.

The following ire is not because you are 15. It's because you're willfully ignorant.

*IRE*

Only willfully ignorant because no one gave a good arguament against him.

Here is my opinion on "Free" health care.
Anyone can give out free health care but remember, that doesn't mean it's any good. The "health care" might as well just involve giving a patient a sowing needle, and let him do surgery on himself.
In capitalist nations there is a little saying that goes like this, "You get what you pay for". So if you don't pay for service, how good do you expect the quality of the service to be?

 

[Thanatos34]

Power Corrupts, all forms of goverment have flaws and most try and Exploit them, some of them allow Great amounts of Control, more control then others

Exactly, and this is the problem with both Socialism and Communism, it gives too much control to the government.

Yes, but as we all know from Hobbes' Leviathan, people are selfish and need centralized power to keep them in check. Otherwise we'll all be in a state of war with every man for himself! And obviously nothing bad could ever come out of power centralization, as it could only come from a consensus of the general will, and as Rousseau pointed out in his Social Contract, the general will is inherently right. To drive the final stake in this, Hegel pointed out that since China is no longer a part of history it's falling into the pacific ocean...obviously if governments were no longer important or needed, they wouldn't exist any more since they aren't important towards the progression of history, right?

In short, I'm currently on hour 20 of no sleep and messing around with the fun readings from one of my classes this semester. If you want the quotes from Hegel where he says that China is falling into the sea, I can post them later.

Hobbes, Hegel and Rousseau. Do I detect a fellow philosopher in the thread?

I agree that people need a centralized power to keep them in check, but who watches the centralized power? You cannot let it get to be too strong, or you simply will have a tyranny.

 

[uhgungawa]

When you get right down to it Marxism, and Socialism seem good on paper. But they fall apart when you add the Human equation into the mix. We want to be and/or get better, we are greedy, needy, and competitive by nature. This makes these philosophies a non working model for a social climate

But then again I'm just full of it

 

[Ignignokt]

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How can you compare abortion with the inability of our health system to save children? This is honestly just building an argument out of two subjects that have nothing interrelated other then they involve children.

Edit: Oh and reported for the ad-hom. You can derail the topic all you want but it doesn't change a thing nor am I a Liberal though good job jumping on the American Right-Wing Bandwagon of everyone who disagrees with me is a dirty liberal. Good thing the GOP is disintegrating as a party.

Where did he call you a liberal?

 

[similar.squirrel]

It's been grossly mishandled and caused a lot of misery.
Plus..people don't like sharing their stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great system. For some other species. Humans are too selfish and stupid for it ever to work.

 

[Thanatos34]

Yeah socialisms absolutley horrible sucks having an nhs and seeing a doctor withing 15 minutes of calling every time or free prescriptions when a student/unemployed or free operations or free dental care if unemployed/a student how the hell have we not started eating each other yet?!?

RUN AMERICA RUN FROM THIS NIGHTMARE! /sarcasm

This made me laugh pretty hard mostly because it is sooooo stereotypical of my fellow Americans. Hell I guess you can't expect much when you have talking heads like Glenn Beck who tell everyone that healthcare is a privilege and not a right. I guess Glenn Beck should tell that to people who have had children die in childbirth since we have the highest infant mortality rate in the First World. I guess having your babies die is a privilege. Hur Hur. And for those who couldn't tell I'm being sarcastic about the last bit.

To be honest the lack of adopting certain Socialist programs is the biggest reason I am looking at leaving this country. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if one of my children died because of our shoddy medical system. I am more then willing to give up my Second Amendment Rights which I hold dear if it means I can raise children with a good education and proper medical care.

Our shoddy medical system that just gave a woman who couldn't eat, drink, or breathe without a tube in her throat a face transplant (One of the first, and the most extensive) so she can do all those things normally again? She may disagree with you.

Haha ignorance is bliss. The first face transplant was done in India with France right behind it. So you were saying?

That's why I said ONE of the first, but the most extensive. But I guess any old shoddy medical system can do that now, it's just those first timers that are up to par. And where are you expecting to find better? There's already multiple people from universal health care countries talking about 3-5 hour waits in this thread.

You should visit an inner-city American Hospital where they turn away people at ERs. 5 hour waits would be heaven. Maybe you should get out of your Ivory Tower a little and see the real America.

Again, how exactly do you propose to pay for this paradise where everyone has good service from doctors who willingly take pay cuts to perform good deeds on the sick?

 

[ZZ-Tops89]

Yeah socialisms absolutley horrible sucks having an nhs and seeing a doctor withing 15 minutes of calling every time or free prescriptions when a student/unemployed or free operations or free dental care if unemployed/a student how the hell have we not started eating each other yet?!?

RUN AMERICA RUN FROM THIS NIGHTMARE! /sarcasm

This made me laugh pretty hard mostly because it is sooooo stereotypical of my fellow Americans. Hell I guess you can't expect much when you have talking heads like Glenn Beck who tell everyone that healthcare is a privilege and not a right. I guess Glenn Beck should tell that to people who have had children die in childbirth since we have the highest infant mortality rate in the First World. I guess having your babies die is a privilege. Hur Hur. And for those who couldn't tell I'm being sarcastic about the last bit.

To be honest the lack of adopting certain Socialist programs is the biggest reason I am looking at leaving this country. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if one of my children died because of our shoddy medical system. I am more then willing to give up my Second Amendment Rights which I hold dear if it means I can raise children with a good education and proper medical care.

Our shoddy medical system that just gave a woman who couldn't eat, drink, or breathe without a tube in her throat a face transplant (One of the first, and the most extensive) so she can do all those things normally again? She may disagree with you.

Haha ignorance is bliss. The first face transplant was done in India with France right behind it. So you were saying?

That's why I said ONE of the first, but the most extensive. But I guess any old shoddy medical system can do that now, it's just those first timers that are up to par. And where are you expecting to find better? There's already multiple people from universal health care countries talking about 3-5 hour waits in this thread.

You should visit an inner-city American Hospital where they turn away people at ERs. 5 hour waits would be heaven. Maybe you should get out of your Ivory Tower a little and see the real America.

EMTALA legally prevents hospitals from turning people away at ERs. Interestingly, it doesn't allocae funding towards paying for emergency treatment. A lot of hospitals are actually being forced to close due to a combination of EMTALA costs and legal fees. I don't want to bombard this thread with quotes from experts, but I can back this claim up if you want me to.

EDIT: The big conclusion, almost forgot. *ahem* laws such as EMTALA are examples of why government should not interfere in the marketplace. By taking a nice little sentiment "wouldn't it be nice if people could get health care?", and codifying THAT STATEMENT into law, they're actually putting hospitals out of business, as well as creating incentives to avoid preventive health care. In short, the government put a band-aid over a gunshot wound.

 

[Rajin Cajun]

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How can you compare abortion with the inability of our health system to save children? This is honestly just building an argument out of two subjects that have nothing interrelated other then they involve children.

Edit: Oh and reported for the ad-hom. You can derail the topic all you want but it doesn't change a thing nor am I a Liberal though good job jumping on the American Right-Wing Bandwagon of everyone who disagrees with me is a dirty liberal. Good thing the GOP is disintegrating as a party.

Where did he call you a liberal?

Right here.

Way to fail, moron. That wasn't me. I have only this account. I guess you are one of those liberals who can only mock someone's positions, rather than answer them.

 

[Thanatos34]

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.

.

.

How can you compare abortion with the inability of our health system to save children? This is honestly just building an argument out of two subjects that have nothing interrelated other then they involve children.

Edit: Oh and reported for the ad-hom. You can derail the topic all you want but it doesn't change a thing nor am I a Liberal though good job jumping on the American Right-Wing Bandwagon of everyone who disagrees with me is a dirty liberal. Good thing the GOP is disintegrating as a party.

Where did he call you a liberal?

It was earlier up.

If he is for nationalized health-care, odds are he is a liberal, regardless of what he says. Not true in all cases, but odds are that it is the case. Also, he was mocking about four people for their positions, instead of responding to them, which had been the response out of the last few liberals I debated with. Perhaps I am generalizing too much, but I think I am right on this one. Liberals also love to use the term redneck to describe anyone who disagrees with them, so there's another hint.

Also, he likes the fact that the GOP is disintegrating.

I guess that's not necessarily a point for him being a liberal, since I think it's about time that the Pseudo-conservatives stepped down and let some actual conservatives pick up the fight. All the GOP knows how to do is compromise with the libs.

 

[Rajin Cajun]

Yeah socialisms absolutley horrible sucks having an nhs and seeing a doctor withing 15 minutes of calling every time or free prescriptions when a student/unemployed or free operations or free dental care if unemployed/a student how the hell have we not started eating each other yet?!?

RUN AMERICA RUN FROM THIS NIGHTMARE! /sarcasm

This made me laugh pretty hard mostly because it is sooooo stereotypical of my fellow Americans. Hell I guess you can't expect much when you have talking heads like Glenn Beck who tell everyone that healthcare is a privilege and not a right. I guess Glenn Beck should tell that to people who have had children die in childbirth since we have the highest infant mortality rate in the First World. I guess having your babies die is a privilege. Hur Hur. And for those who couldn't tell I'm being sarcastic about the last bit.

To be honest the lack of adopting certain Socialist programs is the biggest reason I am looking at leaving this country. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if one of my children died because of our shoddy medical system. I am more then willing to give up my Second Amendment Rights which I hold dear if it means I can raise children with a good education and proper medical care.

Our shoddy medical system that just gave a woman who couldn't eat, drink, or breathe without a tube in her throat a face transplant (One of the first, and the most extensive) so she can do all those things normally again? She may disagree with you.

Haha ignorance is bliss. The first face transplant was done in India with France right behind it. So you were saying?

That's why I said ONE of the first, but the most extensive. But I guess any old shoddy medical system can do that now, it's just those first timers that are up to par. And where are you expecting to find better? There's already multiple people from universal health care countries talking about 3-5 hour waits in this thread.

You should visit an inner-city American Hospital where they turn away people at ERs. 5 hour waits would be heaven. Maybe you should get out of your Ivory Tower a little and see the real America.

EMTALA legally prevents hospitals from turning people away at ERs. Interestingly, it doesn't allocae funding towards paying for emergency treatment. A lot of hospitals are actually being forced to close due to a combination of EMTALA costs and legal fees. I don't want to bombard this thread with quotes from experts, but I can back this claim up if you want me to.

Which only pertains to hospitals that are not privately owned hence why a lot of hospitals are going this route. Atlanta, Georgia is the priemer example of shafting the Inner-City by making the only available hospitals private and therefor able to turn people away. Which is one of the biggest reasons Atlanta has been in a major decline. That the government allows this loophole is disgusting but that is America.

 

[Thanatos34]

Yeah socialisms absolutley horrible sucks having an nhs and seeing a doctor withing 15 minutes of calling every time or free prescriptions when a student/unemployed or free operations or free dental care if unemployed/a student how the hell have we not started eating each other yet?!?

RUN AMERICA RUN FROM THIS NIGHTMARE! /sarcasm

This made me laugh pretty hard mostly because it is sooooo stereotypical of my fellow Americans. Hell I guess you can't expect much when you have talking heads like Glenn Beck who tell everyone that healthcare is a privilege and not a right. I guess Glenn Beck should tell that to people who have had children die in childbirth since we have the highest infant mortality rate in the First World. I guess having your babies die is a privilege. Hur Hur. And for those who couldn't tell I'm being sarcastic about the last bit.

To be honest the lack of adopting certain Socialist programs is the biggest reason I am looking at leaving this country. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if one of my children died because of our shoddy medical system. I am more then willing to give up my Second Amendment Rights which I hold dear if it means I can raise children with a good education and proper medical care.

Our shoddy medical system that just gave a woman who couldn't eat, drink, or breathe without a tube in her throat a face transplant (One of the first, and the most extensive) so she can do all those things normally again? She may disagree with you.

Haha ignorance is bliss. The first face transplant was done in India with France right behind it. So you were saying?

That's why I said ONE of the first, but the most extensive. But I guess any old shoddy medical system can do that now, it's just those first timers that are up to par. And where are you expecting to find better? There's already multiple people from universal health care countries talking about 3-5 hour waits in this thread.

You should visit an inner-city American Hospital where they turn away people at ERs. 5 hour waits would be heaven. Maybe you should get out of your Ivory Tower a little and see the real America.

EMTALA legally prevents hospitals from turning people away at ERs. Interestingly, it doesn't allocae funding towards paying for emergency treatment. A lot of hospitals are actually being forced to close due to a combination of EMTALA costs and legal fees. I don't want to bombard this thread with quotes from experts, but I can back this claim up if you want me to.

Which only pertains to hospitals that are not privately owned hence why a lot of hospitals are going this route. Atlanta, Georgia is the priemer example of shafting the Inner-City by making the only available hospitals private and therefor able to turn people away. Which is one of the biggest reasons Atlanta has been in a major decline. That the government allows this loophole is disgusting but that is America.

So you want to force privately owned hospitals to take anyone who shows up at their door and treat them for free?

Bless you, child, but that is so naive it is cute. That's just not feasible. Where are you going to get the money to do this?

 

[Rajin Cajun]

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.

.

.

How can you compare abortion with the inability of our health system to save children? This is honestly just building an argument out of two subjects that have nothing interrelated other then they involve children.

Edit: Oh and reported for the ad-hom. You can derail the topic all you want but it doesn't change a thing nor am I a Liberal though good job jumping on the American Right-Wing Bandwagon of everyone who disagrees with me is a dirty liberal. Good thing the GOP is disintegrating as a party.

Where did he call you a liberal?

It was earlier up.

If he is for nationalized health-care, odds are he is a liberal, regardless of what he says. Not true in all cases, but odds are that it is the case. Also, he was mocking about four people for their positions, instead of responding to them, which had been the response out of the last few liberals I debated with. Perhaps I am generalizing too much, but I think I am right on this one. Liberals also love to use the term redneck to describe anyone who disagrees with them, so there's another hint.

Also, he likes the fact that the GOP is disintegrating.

I guess that's not necessarily a point for him being a liberal, since I think it's about time that the Pseudo-conservatives stepped down and let some actual conservatives pick up the fight. All the GOP knows how to do is compromise with the libs.

I'm an Authoritarian so how about stop being idiotic? Liberal this and liberal that just reinforces a white trash mentality that was ever present during the elections with the whole, "Can't let the damn Darkie into office." You just remind me of all the paranoid democratic-schizophrenics from the South who think the Liberals are out to take their money and fund nationalized projects which you oddly enough make sound like a bad thing.

 

[ZZ-Tops89]

Power Corrupts, all forms of goverment have flaws and most try and Exploit them, some of them allow Great amounts of Control, more control then others

Exactly, and this is the problem with both Socialism and Communism, it gives too much control to the government.

Yes, but as we all know from Hobbes' Leviathan, people are selfish and need centralized power to keep them in check. Otherwise we'll all be in a state of war with every man for himself! And obviously nothing bad could ever come out of power centralization, as it could only come from a consensus of the general will, and as Rousseau pointed out in his Social Contract, the general will is inherently right. To drive the final stake in this, Hegel pointed out that since China is no longer a part of history it's falling into the pacific ocean...obviously if governments were no longer important or needed, they wouldn't exist any more since they aren't important towards the progression of history, right?

In short, I'm currently on hour 20 of no sleep and messing around with the fun readings from one of my classes this semester. If you want the quotes from Hegel where he says that China is falling into the sea, I can post them later.

Hobbes, Hegel and Rousseau. Do I detect a fellow philosopher in the thread?

I agree that people need a centralized power to keep them in check, but who watches the centralized power? You cannot let it get to be too strong, or you simply will have a tyranny.

I'm not actually in favor of centralized power, and the books were read for a class about International Politics. I was trying to add some nice, esoteric, philosophical wit into the thread. Remember, I'm on hour 20 of no sleep.

Also I'm not a philosophy nerd, I'm an IR/politics/economics nerd. But I do know a bit of philosophy, mainly enlightenment though, as well as a limited understanding of Foucault.

 

[FloodOne]

I'm just curious. You say you are so concerned about our children dying in childbirth because of a shoddy health-care system, but are you more concerned about that than them being intentionally killed in abortion? I'm sorry, I just don't see how that isn't entirely hypocritical.

Socialism is bad, not because of what it proposes to achieve, but because of what it does to achieve those ends. In a perfect world, communism and socialism would be just fine, but we don't live in a perfect world. Giving the government more power will inevitably lead to restrictions on our liberties as free people. Bush already has started the trend, we have no reason to go continue it.

Off topic, but the fact is, abortion is legal and you can't take something away when we've already had our hands on it. If abortion was illegal tommorow, on Saturday women would be paying cash money to that doctor with loose morals, to have an unregulated medical procedure.

On topic, I have little to say other than, statistically speaking... look at the money your father makes in a year... more likely than not, that's the kind of money you will be making... $40K a year + 5 children= no college for anyone

I'm all for Socialism in only two sectors in this country, and that's healthcare and education. I absolutely do not want the gov't involved in the financial sector, or private industry e.g. the automotive industry, banks, or wall street. However we have a mighty mess on our hands, and history proved back in 1929-1932 that when the free market implodes, you can't step back and say "It will work itself out." It won't, read a book on the subject if you disagree.

The real test on the claims of "Obama=Socialist" will come when the economic recovery is complete. If after it's repaired, the administration doesn't get their fucking hands out of the cookie jar, then we probably have a serious problem on our hands, but what alternative is there?

 

[Rajin Cajun]

Yeah socialisms absolutley horrible sucks having an nhs and seeing a doctor withing 15 minutes of calling every time or free prescriptions when a student/unemployed or free operations or free dental care if unemployed/a student how the hell have we not started eating each other yet?!?

RUN AMERICA RUN FROM THIS NIGHTMARE! /sarcasm

This made me laugh pretty hard mostly because it is sooooo stereotypical of my fellow Americans. Hell I guess you can't expect much when you have talking heads like Glenn Beck who tell everyone that healthcare is a privilege and not a right. I guess Glenn Beck should tell that to people who have had children die in childbirth since we have the highest infant mortality rate in the First World. I guess having your babies die is a privilege. Hur Hur. And for those who couldn't tell I'm being sarcastic about the last bit.

To be honest the lack of adopting certain Socialist programs is the biggest reason I am looking at leaving this country. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if one of my children died because of our shoddy medical system. I am more then willing to give up my Second Amendment Rights which I hold dear if it means I can raise children with a good education and proper medical care.

Our shoddy medical system that just gave a woman who couldn't eat, drink, or breathe without a tube in her throat a face transplant (One of the first, and the most extensive) so she can do all those things normally again? She may disagree with you.

Haha ignorance is bliss. The first face transplant was done in India with France right behind it. So you were saying?

That's why I said ONE of the first, but the most extensive. But I guess any old shoddy medical system can do that now, it's just those first timers that are up to par. And where are you expecting to find better? There's already multiple people from universal health care countries talking about 3-5 hour waits in this thread.

You should visit an inner-city American Hospital where they turn away people at ERs. 5 hour waits would be heaven. Maybe you should get out of your Ivory Tower a little and see the real America.

EMTALA legally prevents hospitals from turning people away at ERs. Interestingly, it doesn't allocae funding towards paying for emergency treatment. A lot of hospitals are actually being forced to close due to a combination of EMTALA costs and legal fees. I don't want to bombard this thread with quotes from experts, but I can back this claim up if you want me to.

Which only pertains to hospitals that are not privately owned hence why a lot of hospitals are going this route. Atlanta, Georgia is the priemer example of shafting the Inner-City by making the only available hospitals private and therefor able to turn people away. Which is one of the biggest reasons Atlanta has been in a major decline. That the government allows this loophole is disgusting but that is America.

So you want to force privately owned hospitals to take anyone who shows up at their door and treat them for free?

Bless you, child, but that is so naive it is cute. That's just not feasible. Where are you going to get the money to do this?

I guess the Hippocratic oath means nothing compared to the Almighty Dollar? Oh well that is what happens you take the Classist, Elitist Viewpoint that Healthcare is a Privilege and not a Right. Let them eat cake they said in France before Misseur Guillotine found them.

 

[Thanatos34]

.

.

.

.

How can you compare abortion with the inability of our health system to save children? This is honestly just building an argument out of two subjects that have nothing interrelated other then they involve children.

Edit: Oh and reported for the ad-hom. You can derail the topic all you want but it doesn't change a thing nor am I a Liberal though good job jumping on the American Right-Wing Bandwagon of everyone who disagrees with me is a dirty liberal. Good thing the GOP is disintegrating as a party.

Where did he call you a liberal?

It was earlier up.

If he is for nationalized health-care, odds are he is a liberal, regardless of what he says. Not true in all cases, but odds are that it is the case. Also, he was mocking about four people for their positions, instead of responding to them, which had been the response out of the last few liberals I debated with. Perhaps I am generalizing too much, but I think I am right on this one. Liberals also love to use the term redneck to describe anyone who disagrees with them, so there's another hint.

Also, he likes the fact that the GOP is disintegrating.

I guess that's not necessarily a point for him being a liberal, since I think it's about time that the Pseudo-conservatives stepped down and let some actual conservatives pick up the fight. All the GOP knows how to do is compromise with the libs.

I'm an Authoritarian so how about stop being idiotic? Liberal this and liberal that just reinforces a white trash mentality that was ever present during the elections with the whole, "Can't let the damn Darkie into office." You just remind me of all the paranoid democratic-schizophrenics from the South who think the Liberals are out to take their money and fund nationalized projects which you oddly enough make sound like a bad thing.

I trust the people more than the government, so yes, taking my money to fund their pet projects ticks me off, and no I don't think it's good. If the gov't would actually do what they say they would with my money, I wouldn't mind it so much, but why I would trust a government who has less of an idea about fiscal policy, both republicans and democrats, than I do?

And the line about not wanting Obama because he's black is very old, and overused. "OMG! You don't want Obama in office? It can't be because he was good friends with a terrorist, launched his campaign at the guy's house, went to a church that practiced reverse racism for twenty years, and voted against having hospitals treat babies that survived a failed abortion attempt... oh no, it can't be because of that. I know! It's because he's black! It must be!"

 

[ZZ-Tops89]

Yeah socialisms absolutley horrible sucks having an nhs and seeing a doctor withing 15 minutes of calling every time or free prescriptions when a student/unemployed or free operations or free dental care if unemployed/a student how the hell have we not started eating each other yet?!?

RUN AMERICA RUN FROM THIS NIGHTMARE! /sarcasm

This made me laugh pretty hard mostly because it is sooooo stereotypical of my fellow Americans. Hell I guess you can't expect much when you have talking heads like Glenn Beck who tell everyone that healthcare is a privilege and not a right. I guess Glenn Beck should tell that to people who have had children die in childbirth since we have the highest infant mortality rate in the First World. I guess having your babies die is a privilege. Hur Hur. And for those who couldn't tell I'm being sarcastic about the last bit.

To be honest the lack of adopting certain Socialist programs is the biggest reason I am looking at leaving this country. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if one of my children died because of our shoddy medical system. I am more then willing to give up my Second Amendment Rights which I hold dear if it means I can raise children with a good education and proper medical care.

Our shoddy medical system that just gave a woman who couldn't eat, drink, or breathe without a tube in her throat a face transplant (One of the first, and the most extensive) so she can do all those things normally again? She may disagree with you.

Haha ignorance is bliss. The first face transplant was done in India with France right behind it. So you were saying?

That's why I said ONE of the first, but the most extensive. But I guess any old shoddy medical system can do that now, it's just those first timers that are up to par. And where are you expecting to find better? There's already multiple people from universal health care countries talking about 3-5 hour waits in this thread.

You should visit an inner-city American Hospital where they turn away people at ERs. 5 hour waits would be heaven. Maybe you should get out of your Ivory Tower a little and see the real America.

EMTALA legally prevents hospitals from turning people away at ERs. Interestingly, it doesn't allocae funding towards paying for emergency treatment. A lot of hospitals are actually being forced to close due to a combination of EMTALA costs and legal fees. I don't want to bombard this thread with quotes from experts, but I can back this claim up if you want me to.

Which only pertains to hospitals that are not privately owned hence why a lot of hospitals are going this route. Atlanta, Georgia is the priemer example of shafting the Inner-City by making the only available hospitals private and therefor able to turn people away. Which is one of the biggest reasons Atlanta has been in a major decline. That the government allows this loophole is disgusting but that is America.

I'm roughly 99% sure that EMTALA also applies to private hospitals, at least to some capacity. I'll have to double check that one though, and you might just be right.

 

[n64link]

When you get right down to it Marxism, and Socialism seem good on paper. But they fall apart when you add the Human equation into the mix. We want to be and/or get better, we are greedy, needy, and competitive by nature. This makes these philosophies a non working model for a social climate

But then again I'm just full of it

That's actually the reason it never works on a large scale. It's only works in a small comunity where religion holds it together.

 

[Rajin Cajun]

Yeah socialisms absolutley horrible sucks having an nhs and seeing a doctor withing 15 minutes of calling every time or free prescriptions when a student/unemployed or free operations or free dental care if unemployed/a student how the hell have we not started eating each other yet?!?

RUN AMERICA RUN FROM THIS NIGHTMARE! /sarcasm

This made me laugh pretty hard mostly because it is sooooo stereotypical of my fellow Americans. Hell I guess you can't expect much when you have talking heads like Glenn Beck who tell everyone that healthcare is a privilege and not a right. I guess Glenn Beck should tell that to people who have had children die in childbirth since we have the highest infant mortality rate in the First World. I guess having your babies die is a privilege. Hur Hur. And for those who couldn't tell I'm being sarcastic about the last bit.

To be honest the lack of adopting certain Socialist programs is the biggest reason I am looking at leaving this country. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if one of my children died because of our shoddy medical system. I am more then willing to give up my Second Amendment Rights which I hold dear if it means I can raise children with a good education and proper medical care.

Our shoddy medical system that just gave a woman who couldn't eat, drink, or breathe without a tube in her throat a face transplant (One of the first, and the most extensive) so she can do all those things normally again? She may disagree with you.

Haha ignorance is bliss. The first face transplant was done in India with France right behind it. So you were saying?

That's why I said ONE of the first, but the most extensive. But I guess any old shoddy medical system can do that now, it's just those first timers that are up to par. And where are you expecting to find better? There's already multiple people from universal health care countries talking about 3-5 hour waits in this thread.

You should visit an inner-city American Hospital where they turn away people at ERs. 5 hour waits would be heaven. Maybe you should get out of your Ivory Tower a little and see the real America.

EMTALA legally prevents hospitals from turning people away at ERs. Interestingly, it doesn't allocae funding towards paying for emergency treatment. A lot of hospitals are actually being forced to close due to a combination of EMTALA costs and legal fees. I don't want to bombard this thread with quotes from experts, but I can back this claim up if you want me to.

Which only pertains to hospitals that are not privately owned hence why a lot of hospitals are going this route. Atlanta, Georgia is the priemer example of shafting the Inner-City by making the only available hospitals private and therefor able to turn people away. Which is one of the biggest reasons Atlanta has been in a major decline. That the government allows this loophole is disgusting but that is America.

I'm roughly 99% sure that EMTALA also applies to private hospitals, at least to some capacity. I'll have to double check that one though, and you might just be right.

It might. I have always been under the impression that Private Hospitals were able to avoid this through some loophole I would hope it is not true but with all the other loopholes in American Healthcare it wouldn't surprise me.