Why do people treat MOBAs and MMORPGs as if they are the samething?

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

I was watching this video of Top 10 New MMORPGs of 2017 and the very first thing I see is a MOBA, the kind with lanes and creeps and hero characters.

Why are these games like DOTA, League of Legendas, Heroes of the Storm lumped together in this soup as if they are the same as games like World of Warcraft, Everquest, SWTOR, LOTRO, Final Fantasy XIV Online, etc.

MOBAs don't have massive open worlds and true player created characters with millions of quests to do. Or instances like Dungeon Raids.

I know people like to debate about the meaning and definitions of genres but you can clearly see that this:


Is nothing like this:

 

[Hawki]

In theory, they share similar traits:

-Both genres are online only

-There's the stereotype (that may or may not be accurate) that a lot of people who play MMOs/MOBAs don't play other games, that they're individuals who don't otherwise have an interest in other genres. Basically not "true gamers," as asinine as a term as that is.

-There's also the belief (that I think has a bit more basis) that MOBAs and MMOs are zero-sum. As in, you choose a single MOBA/MMO to play, and stick with it. There's exceptions of course, but for instance, if you're spending a lot of time playing WoW, that's time spent on one MMO and not on another, which would require similar dedication to get to a certain point.

 

[chrissx2]

Maybe they think that MMO(multi-massive-online 'game') stands for large userbase and not the structure of the game?

 

[Zhukov]

They don't.

I have literally never seen anyone treat those two things as the same.

 

[Kyrian007]

I lump them into the same category. Not as MMO or MOBA but into the category "not fun, don't play them." They do have that in common.

 

[Bad Jim]

Beware that many MMOs have minigames in them. The "obvious MOBA" you saw may have been a MOBA minigame in an MMO, in which case it's just a poor choice of gameplay footage.

Though it's also possible that whoever made the video didn't have a clue.

EDIT: Found the video.

Master X Master is a MOBA, but it also has a PvE "story mode", which is the basis for them calling it an MMO.


It still doesn't really look like MMO content but they seem to be aware that MOBAs and MMOs aren't the same.

 

[DoPo]

They don't.

I have literally never seen anyone treat those two things as the same.

Exactly. There aren't "people" there is a single video. And it doesn't treat all of MOBAs like the MMORPGs, it lists a single one - Master X Master. And that game is actually marketed as an MMORPG in it's PvE mode, although it also has a PvP which is a MOBA. Can't seem to find a lot of info on the game but I assume that the PvE mode is going to be similar to Gild Wars or something, so it's not a fully open world free roaming thing from the get-go but you sort of join instances when playing. And thus I assume that the PvP instances are just a MOBA.

So, in conclusion, it seems this isn't really an issue.

 

[hermes]

I would say you should be more careful at taking anything from a youtube video at face value. This is not "people", this is a single group. They are not deciding what those genres are, and as far as I know no one (with some base level knowledge of game design) really confuses one with the other. If anything, this just makes me add this channel to the list of channels I don't take seriously.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

I would say you should be more careful at taking anything from a youtube video at face value. This is not "people", this is a single group. They are not deciding what those genres are, and as far as I know no one (with some base level knowledge of game design) really confuses one with the other. If anything, this just makes me add this channel to the list of channels I don't take seriously.

I have seen this being said about MOBAs way before this perticular youtube video

Like this guy right here MMOHuts does gameplay videos of League of Legends and DOTA as if they are the same MMO as World of Warcraft and Everquest as in he covers MOBAs along side MMORPGs:

 

[Erttheking]

They don't.

I have literally never seen anyone treat those two things as the same.

/thread.

Seriously, you saw one video and that video is the only example I've ever heard of.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

This is new to me. I guess MMO could be used for anything with online play if enough people play it and there's no offline mode but nobody who isn't ignorant would use it for a MOBA.


Instead of asking this question, you should just have written off the videos as idiotic and moved on.

 

[DoPo]

I have seen this being said about MOBAs way before this perticular youtube video

Like this guy right here MMOHuts does gameplay videos of League of Legends and DOTA as if they are the same MMO as World of Warcraft and Everquest as in he covers MOBAs along side MMORPGs:

1. That video is from 2010 - the term "MOBA" wasn't around at that point[footnote]or, it might have been, but not nearly as prominent[/footnote] DotA did not yet have an official name for the genre, so those games were called all sorts of things. It's a bit harsh to expect people to call the genre a something that wasn't even a thing at the time.

2. I watched about 3 minutes of the video and stopped, so correct me if I'm wrong, but at no point does the person claim that League of Legends is anything like World of Warcraft. In fact, the guy called the game a "strategy MMO" which, to be fair, I really prefer over "MOBA". It does sound better, since, the games are a strategy offshot and are geared towards multiplayer with many, many other people. While "multiplayer online battle arena" describes pretty much any competitive mutliplayer game.

3. If it wasn't clear the game was referred to as an MMO and not as an MMORPG. There are other types of MMOs out there that aren't MMORPGs, like MMOFPS games, for example - if somebody called MMOHut were to make a video for them, would you also claim that they are unfairly compared to World of Warcraft? Because that would sound quite strange.

Overall, you have given two examples of your claim - one is a top ten list where one game that is marketed as having both an MMORPG and a MOBA element and another one where nobody called it an MMORPG but quite appropriately named the League of Legends "Strategy MMO". Neither of these seem to compare the games to World of Warcraft, so neither seem to support your complaint. Where are all of those other people that frequently and/or consistently say that MOBAs and MMORPGs are exactly the same?

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

I have seen this being said about MOBAs way before this perticular youtube video

Like this guy right here MMOHuts does gameplay videos of League of Legends and DOTA as if they are the same MMO as World of Warcraft and Everquest as in he covers MOBAs along side MMORPGs:

1. That video is from 2010 - the term "MOBA" wasn't around at that point[footnote]or, it might have been, but not nearly as prominent[/footnote] DotA did not yet have an official name for the genre, so those games were called all sorts of things. It's a bit harsh to expect people to call the genre a something that wasn't even a thing at the time.

2. I watched about 3 minutes of the video and stopped, so correct me if I'm wrong, but at no point does the person claim that League of Legends is anything like World of Warcraft. In fact, the guy called the game a "strategy MMO" which, to be fair, I really prefer over "MOBA". It does sound better, since, the games are a strategy offshot and are geared towards multiplayer with many, many other people. While "multiplayer online battle arena" describes pretty much any competitive mutliplayer game.

3. If it wasn't clear the game was referred to as an MMO and not as an MMORPG. There are other types of MMOs out there that aren't MMORPGs, like MMOFPS games, for example - if somebody called MMOHut were to make a video for them, would you also claim that they are unfairly compared to World of Warcraft? Because that would sound quite strange.

Overall, you have given two examples of your claim - one is a top ten list where one game that is marketed as having both an MMORPG and a MOBA element and another one where nobody called it an MMORPG but quite appropriately named the League of Legends "Strategy MMO". Neither of these seem to compare the games to World of Warcraft, so neither seem to support your complaint. Where are all of those other people that frequently and/or consistently say that MOBAs and MMORPGs are exactly the same?

Than I am corrected that they don't compare MOBAs like League of Legends to World of Warcraft, but my point is that why do they still refer to games like League of Legends as an MMORPG?

League of Legends, DOTA, are not MMORPGs. Hence they are properly called MOBA, but that top 10 list of videos continued this issue by lumping MOBAs together with traditional MMORPGs.

 

[DoPo]

why do they still refer to games like League of Legends as an MMORPG?

When?

but that top 10 list of videos continued this issue by lumping MOBAs together with traditional MMORPGs.

No, it doesn't. The games are

10. Master X Master - has a PvE and PvP element, where the PvP is a MOBA, while the PvE is billed as MMORPG. As stated previously, I didn't really find much information but I can't see why this can't be the case.

9. Lost Arc - if anything, it looks more like Diablo but whatever - I still think MMORPG is a good label for it

Spoiler: Gameplay

8. MapleStory 2 - the original is a rather famous MMORPG, which also happened to be a 2D side scroller. This is this is the 3D incarnation of it.

7. Lineage Eternal - the original Lineage and its sequel were actually contenders to World of Warcraft back in the day.

6. Worlds Adrift - floating air pirate ships.

5. Ark: Survival of the Fittest - some sort of battleground offshoot of Ark: Survival it seems. Sure, I'd agree that maybe MMORPG doesn't quite fit but then again, I don't know enough about the game. Seems to me it's more of an MMOFPS (well, using bows and crossbows, but I guess also melee) with survival elements.

4. Sea of Thieves - sea pirate ships.

3. Albion Online - seems like a fairly standard MMOPRPG

Spoiler: Gameplay

2. Crowfall - also seems fairly standard

Spoiler: Gameplay

1. Camelot Unchained - (spiritual) successor to another famous MMORPG - Dark Age of Camelot. Seems to be geared toward PvP.