Why do ubisoft get hate but rockstar get free pass for releasing same type of games?

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B-Cell_v1legacy

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So my friends, with all these talk about GTA. i was thinking lets revised what rockstar company has released in thier life time and most of thier games recieving 10/10s and GOAT status.

Rockstar is the company that has some popular IPs like GTA, Red Dead, Max payne, manhunt etc. Ubisoft on other hand after the success of assassins creed release nothing but AC clones. yearly iteration of AC, thier GTA/AC mix watch dogs, turning every game into open world (which i fear about next spllinter cell game). but arenot rockstar also doing exact same thing? they were making open worlds before it become cool?

Now lets analyse rockstars popular games

GTA is by far most overrated franchise ever in my opinion but one thing they done it right is universe in GTA feel alive unlike other open world game or GTA clones. the universe is alive but when it comes to gameplay. its mediocre. i cant find a single thing they done amazing that deserve like 10/10.

Then theres Red dead redemption. my least hated rockstar game. its only rockstar open world game that i beat. and i kinda enjoy it apart from herding cow missions. but if you remove wild west and replace it with modern times. it would become another mediocre cover based open world shooter. but western setting save it. its still overrated. its not 10/10 game. its more of 7/10 game. just a good game. and i hope they release it on PC

then theres bully. i tried it some years ago on PC the scholarship edition and the game is absolutely trash and not only that it show educational institute in bad light. you go to school/collage to study to become a doctor, scientist. not some bully. but apart from bad concept its gameplay is terrible. you fight students, make friends then some security will find you and throw you in classroom. couldnot play it past hour

then theres best game which is Max payne 3 the only linear rockstar game. well i have love/hate relationship with this game. on one hand i consider it best rockstar game of all time. I love its gameplay mechanics and so like story character which even bad by max payne standard but good on its own. but i hate non stop cutscene which we cant skip, plus it ditch everything what make unique about max payne. i dont like max bald in hawaii shirt who drinks. i prefer cool and calm max wearing leather jacket. all in all it was fun game but not what i expect from max payne game.

Now lets analyse ubisoft open world games post AC.

They first release first AC. it might not be a critical success but it was a commercial success. critisicm was repetetive and boring game. so they decide to "improve" it by releasing 2 which is both critical and commercial success. however it was still remain average game. but after 3 fans are sick of series and start complaining the game. but they released 4 which is the best in series. but then again they ruined it again by releasing unity. now even AC fans are not interested in series.

another popular franchise is far cry, far cry 1 was not made by ubisoft but they made 2 which was faliure among many gamers. but I for one think it was good game. better than newer far cry games. then they release far cry 3 which fans consider best in series. it was imo a decent game with long cutscenes and terrible protagonist but certainly one of the better ubisoft open world game. far cry 4 then imo was pretty bad so was primal. and thus the franchise get stale

another one is watch dogs which is essentially modern day assassins creed. first game has tons of hype then fail. second game has no hype but turn out one of the most generic gta clone ever. watch dogs is easily ubisoft worst franchise. but they will keep milking it.

So to conclude it. both rockstar and ubisoft are releasing same type of games since decade especially rockstar. but ubisoft formula even its boring is still have better open world structure, better design, better story, better core gameplay elements than rockstar games. but They both rehashing and releasing same type of games over and over again. why one company get hate and other company get free pass?

Im not justifying ubisoft boring formula. but how is rockstar formula any better?

lets discuss
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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It shouldn't, pure and simple. The over saturation of open-world collectathon games is destroying what is actually a fun game premise. I'm still working on Ghost Recon, getting all the guns and documents and working through the DLC. And I will be burned out on open world sandboxes when I'm done, so I ain't about to jump into GTA or an Assassin's game.
They all bleed together, where I'm not sure if I'm hunting for treasure maps in Ghost Recon, or looking for sniper rifle scopes in ancient Egypt.
In the words of Mr. Jovi,
 

FalloutJack

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I'm sure I have no idea.

Seriously though, it's clearly about quality, better business decisions, and Rockstar not putting their foot in their mouth with every alternative step like Ubisoft does.
 

tippy2k2

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FalloutJack said:
image snip

I'm sure I have no idea.

Seriously though, it's clearly about quality, better business decisions, and Rockstar not putting their foot in their mouth with every alternative step like Ubisoft does.
Aaaaaaaand boom goes the dynamite

Although I'm probably not a great judge as I like the big Ubisoft games like Far Cry and Watch Dogs (or liked Assassins Creed at least and gave up right after Black Flag when fatigue set in and the stuff that the game could get away with when it was new and shiny was really starting to bug me) but I am aware enough to realize that Rockstar makes much higher quality versions of those games.

But yeah, simple answer; Rockstar makes really damn good games using the formula where Ubisoft makes good to mediocre games with that formula. It's like asking why I complain about a McDonalds cheeseburger but don't complain about the cheeseburger at the fancy restaurant using angus beef and cheeses I can't pronounce; you're "technically" correct that they are both cheeseburgers but there is a tiny difference in there...
 

sXeth

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Ubisoft was pumping out ACs at a rate sometimes faster then annually. While seemingly drifting farther and farther away from their basic concept (which was closer to medieval Hitman) each time. Then they bled over the ideas into Far Cry (and Ghost Recon, though I don't know if that was ever not a sandboxy thing). Though they really get too much credit or not enough credit or whatever. The main contribution they made to that formula was scaling towers, which doesn't even show up in Watch Dogs. Map regions full of checkpoints is just basic bleed over from MMO design.

GTA for its part, doesn't release annually (beyond short bursts anyways. The San Andreas games were pretty close to my memory. GTA 5 opted for releasing, then releasing on PC, then rereleasing on the next gen of consoles again.). You can't really say they've drifted away from their initial concept, unless you mean the top down twin stick shooter days. There's no real mechanical concepts in GTA to be noticable in any other games that they make, so you don't get any memetic imagery like radio towers.

Ubisoft being the "open world sandbox" studio is kind of exaggerated too. That might be their flagship choice (though I wouldn't be surprised if Just Dance was their most steady one, lol), but they're pretty broadly scattered if you actually look at their catalogue.
 

stroopwafel

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I love Watch Dogs(both titles). Those are probably my most favorite sandbox games to date. Ubi's Far Cry games can be hit and miss but some are quite good. Assassins Creed is not really my thing but I like what they did with the combat in the newest game. I also really loved Splinter Cell Blacklist so kinda bummed we haven't seen any sign of a new title yet. Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six isn't really my thing either. So I guess..that covers most of their IP's? :p

I guess it's true that Ubi's annual releases reeks of milking their franchises(some of their titles just look like re-skins of the previous one) but Rockstar milks GTA(or rather GTA Online) just as hard and with much less effort. The physics model and attention to detail is incredibly impressive in GTA5 and GTA3 was also the first of it's kind so it makes sense it won't receive the same critique as games that seems to imitate it or unrelated sandbox games that are released every year(or every other year). GTA is the game that started the genre, has insanely high production values and get released maybe once every five years or so. Ubi's games don't really build that momentum.

I can definitely see why GTA is loved so much but personally I find the missions way too scripted and the online not enjoyable. However the fact they release maybe one game every five years or so plays into their marketing strengths. Ubi games come in much larger supply and are more hit and miss.
 

Smithnikov_v1legacy

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B-Cell said:
then theres bully. i tried it some years ago on PC the scholarship edition and the game is absolutely trash and not only that it show educational institute in bad light. you go to school/collage to study to become a doctor, scientist. not some bully. but apart from bad concept its gameplay is terrible. you fight students, make friends then some security will find you and throw you in classroom. couldnot play it past hour
Jack Thompson, is that you?

Bully is pretty much my favorite R* title, so I'm going to come to the rescue here. Point by point here.

-WHAT educational institute does it show in a bad light? Bulworth Academy is FICTIONAL, and the characters in it aside from Jimmy all point out pretty candidly that the school is a breeding ground for all kinds of maladjusted people. News Flash; THERE ARE PLACES LIKE BULWORTH IN THE REAL WORLD.

-Yes, you go to school to get an education, and if you actually paid attention to the game, you know that attending classes and doing good in those classes in-game REWARDS you. Shop classes give you bikes, English classes give you better results interacting with students, ect. The game it'self encourages you to stay in class.

-Jimmy FIGHTS the bullies, and how you missed that, I'll never know. Even when the put-upon Nerds suddenly start threatening to get dictatorial, guess what; Jimmy lays the hurt on them as well.

-Finally, the game it'self is stylized more like an homage to John Hughes teen movies than anything else.
 

dscross

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i think they play very differently, actually - the ones I've played anyway. They are open world but that's about it. I've not played Watchdogs 2 yet, but I think that one is the closest to GTA. All the others, nothing like Rockstar I think.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Smithnikov said:
B-Cell said:
then theres bully. i tried it some years ago on PC the scholarship edition and the game is absolutely trash and not only that it show educational institute in bad light. you go to school/collage to study to become a doctor, scientist. not some bully. but apart from bad concept its gameplay is terrible. you fight students, make friends then some security will find you and throw you in classroom. couldnot play it past hour
Jack Thompson, is that you?

Bully is pretty much my favorite R* title, so I'm going to come to the rescue here. Point by point here.

-WHAT educational institute does it show in a bad light? Bulworth Academy is FICTIONAL, and the characters in it aside from Jimmy all point out pretty candidly that the school is a breeding ground for all kinds of maladjusted people. News Flash; THERE ARE PLACES LIKE BULWORTH IN THE REAL WORLD.

-Yes, you go to school to get an education, and if you actually paid attention to the game, you know that attending classes and doing good in those classes in-game REWARDS you. Shop classes give you bikes, English classes give you better results interacting with students, ect. The game it'self encourages you to stay in class.

-Jimmy FIGHTS the bullies, and how you missed that, I'll never know. Even when the put-upon Nerds suddenly start threatening to get dictatorial, guess what; Jimmy lays the hurt on them as well.

-Finally, the game it'self is stylized more like an homage to John Hughes teen movies than anything else.
He mentions not even playing past an hour. Which is like walking out of Hacksaw Ridge 1 hr in because there isn't enough action.
 

DefunctTheory

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Three reasons.

1. Ubisoft churns these things out like an iPhone factory. The scale at which the release them is staggering - Even if they were the only company making open world games, the market would still be saturated.

2. There are a lot of 'rules' to entertainment - Don't retcon, don't replace actors unless you have to, don't overproduce, and so many others. Most of them have one exception though - Don't do X, unless you do it well. Generally speaking, Rockstar does a pretty good job - Each game updates and includes more, the maps are new and interesting, and so on. Ubisoft, on the other hand, frequently rehashes titles, bumbles mechanics, and even reuse maps.

3. Ubisoft is just kind of a skeevy company to begin with, so people are less inclined to cut them slack. Rockstar, of course, isn't squicky clean, but Ubisoft is on a whole different level.
 

Elvis Starburst

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I thought you left, but looking at your post history, I guess ya somehow snuck under the radar.

The answer is quality, not releasing shit annually, and actually wanting to make games worth a damn. Ubisoft somehow shit its crappy game formula into an open world car game. How do you DO that?
 

Hawki

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Looking at these posts, I got the answers I expected. That said, while I don't attribute this to the main cause, I will say that Rockstar has another advantage over Ubisoft and that's brand loyalty.

What I mean by that is that looking at Rockstar's main IPs, they all tend to follow a 'gangster' theme - GTA (obviously), Max Payne, Bully, Red Dead, Manhunt, etc. All of these are series based around crime and/or anti-heroes of some sorts. Even L.A. Noire is based around this, just from the perspective of a police officer. Even the name itself "Rockstar" suggests a deviant, an outsider, etc. I'm sure you could nominate exceptions, but if someone mentions "Rockstar game," these are the types of things I'm going to think of.

On the other hand, Ubisoft has a far wider range of IPs, but they're less congruent with each other. Something like Assassin's Creed may have some congruence with Watch Dogs and Prince of Persia, but no congruence with something like Rayman, either in terms of gameplay or in tone. Someone mentions "Ubisoft game," and all that comes to mind is the mechanics behind them (open-world). Truth be told, there's probably more Ubisoft IPs that I have/had some level of investment in than Rockstar ones, but they're scattered throughout its library. Whereas with Rockstar, if I like something like GTA, I'm practically guaranteed to like a fair few of its other IPs as well.

I wouldn't say that this is the main cause, but as a casual observer, it also appears to be quality (Rockstar) vs. quantity (Ubisoft). Quality tends to put you in higher graces among consumers.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Dunno, why is Bethesda gonna get a pass for their inevitable game breaking bug in their upcoming Switch release of Skyrim?
 

DefunctTheory

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altnameJag said:
Dunno, why is Bethesda gonna get a pass for their inevitable game breaking bug in their upcoming Switch release of Skyrim?
Will they? Bethesda has been hemorrhaging good will for a couple years now. I think we're approaching the point where no ones going to give them a pass.
 

Canadamus Prime

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Ubisoft gets hate for that? That's news to me. I thought Ubisoft got hate for a lot of other reasons. Oh well.
Incidentally the few Rockstar games I've played I found really boring.
 

Hawki

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Canadamus Prime said:
Ubisoft gets hate for that? That's news to me. I thought Ubisoft got hate for a lot of other reasons.
It's the only reason I've seen.

EA, I get the hate for, and have a personal gripe there. Activision, ditto. Ubisoft? I don't get why they'd be put in the same category. At the very worst, Ubisoft's greatest sin seems to have been producing bland, samey games. That's not really a sin in of itself. I mean, they don't make many games now that I'm interested in, but that's my problem, not theirs.
 

Canadamus Prime

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Hawki said:
Canadamus Prime said:
Ubisoft gets hate for that? That's news to me. I thought Ubisoft got hate for a lot of other reasons.
It's the only reason I've seen.

EA, I get the hate for, and have a personal gripe there. Activision, ditto. Ubisoft? I don't get why they'd be put in the same category. At the very worst, Ubisoft's greatest sin seems to have been producing bland, samey games. That's not really a sin in of itself. I mean, they don't make many games now that I'm interested in, but that's my problem, not theirs.
I didn't even know Ubisoft was getting a lot of hate right now. Go figure.