Why does no one care about english?

[Bonham79]

(This doesn't apply to only English, whatever language that is used to reason and discuss in your country can be substituted.)

So the U.S. in the spirit of the political season is stressing better 'education', and by education they mean the increasing test scores in math and sciences. So now I have to hear ramblings about the U.S. falling behind in the math and sciences, and how this country has better test scores than us and how we can better yadayadayada. My issue is that no one ever brings up the arts, be it fine or liberal. I have never heard a politician call for a renewed focus on the creative aspects of learning, instead focusing on the 'rational' studies. This could be ignored as regular politics if this thought process didn't extend into my everyday life, which it does. Every time I state my major as English and my minor as philosophy I get the same old responses: "Why would you pick that?" "That's a waste." Why is there so little care in these fields beyond math and science? It can't be the reasoning part, because philosophy and english classes should by design teach proper reasoning skills, and it can't be the interest factor, because there are multiple groups of people who prefer these neglected fields. Thoughts Escapist?
(Don't Just state the demands of the job market because that still raises the question as to why these select skills are devalued in the market in the first place)

 

[JoJo]

-Makes thread about why no-one cares about the English language

-Leaves grammatical error in the thread title

That's why OP.

Okay, no but seriously in answer to your question, it's because science and maths can be used in the real world to create new technology and discoveries, which in turn creates benefits for society. Art and language are great (I'm a big reader and an amateur writer myself) but they aren't going to feed the starving poor of Africa, or fix Grandad's heart problems, or give us a new cheaper fuel, or bring us the latest gaming hardware.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

I know what you mean (although I sense the problem is even worse in the US than in the UK) and it's a damn shame, because with the vast majority of industry going east without a backward glance, the arts and entertainment industries may well be the most viable future for Western economies. The job market should be welcoming creatively minded people with open arms, not creating an environment so hostile that schools try and squash all that pesky free-thinking out of you before the age of 16.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

-Makes thread about why no-one cares about the English language

-Leaves grammatical error in the thread title

That's why OP.

Okay, no but seriously in answer to your question, it's because science and maths can be used in the real world to create new technology and discoveries, which in turn creates benefits for society. Art and language are great (I'm a big reader and an amateur writer myself) but they aren't going to feed the starving poor of Africa, or fix Grandad's heart problems, or bring us the latest video game.

Gonna have to take issue with that last example. Yes, video games need a lot of coding, but these days most of them also need professional writers, art designers, and actors for voices and mo-cap.

 

[SciMal]

(This doesn't apply to only English, whatever language that is used to reason and discuss in your country can be substituted.)

So the U.S. in the spirit of the political season is stressing better 'education', and by education they mean the increasing test scores in math and sciences. So now I have to hear ramblings about the U.S. falling behind in the math and sciences, and how this country has better test scores than us and how we can better yadayadayada. My issue is that no one ever brings up the arts, be it fine or liberal. I have never heard a politician call for a renewed focus on the creative aspects of learning, instead focusing on the 'rational' studies. This could be ignored as regular politics if this thought process didn't extend into my everyday life, which it does. Every time I state my major as English and my minor as philosophy I get the same old responses: "Why would you pick that?" "That's a waste." Why is there so little care in these fields beyond math and science? It can't be the reasoning part, because philosophy and english classes should by design teach proper reasoning skills, and it can't be the interest factor, because there are multiple groups of people who prefer these neglected fields. Thoughts Escapist?
(Don't Just state the demands of the job market because that still raises the question as to why these select skills are devalued in the market in the first place)

Number of quality-of-life altering inventions created by people not using Math and Science in the last 150 years: 0

Number of quality-of-life altering inventions created by people using Math and Science in the last 150 years: ALL THE THINGS.

That's why. English/Fine Arts is a fine sign of the times, the culture, the general zeitgeist - but it will never fix economies, it will never fix energy issues, it will never fix transportation problems, and it will never fix famine.

What Art does is improve things. Art makes everything better. More aesthetically pleasing, more meaningful, poignant, or more timely. Art is a commentary of humanity, will never direct humanity except in the most abstract fashion.

Encouraging creative behavior in students is necessary for a well-rounded education, yes, but more often than not it's simple endurance that gets results. Occasionally there's a burst of imagination that leads to an exceedingly sublime solution to a problem - one of those "Eureka!" moments, but it's rare and far between.

So if you're a country who's facing an economically unstable situation, where would you put your investments? The gal who might find a cheap new iron-based battery to rival Lithium-Ion but at 10% the cost for materials - or the guy who's really good at spotting logical fallacies?

 

[JoJo]

Gonna have to take issue with that last example. Yes, video games need a lot of coding, but these days most of them also need professional writers, art designers, and actors for voices and mo-cap.

I agree, in retrospect that wasn't a good example, it's been edited now. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

You're wrong. English and math are far more thoroughly tested in education than science or history. The latter need a greater focus, not English.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

Gonna have to take issue with that last example. Yes, video games need a lot of coding, but these days most of them also need professional writers, art designers, and actors for voices and mo-cap.

I agree, in retrospect that wasn't a good example, it's been edited now. Thanks for pointing it out.

It's cool man... and some other words too for mod-shielding.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

(This doesn't apply to only English, whatever language that is used to reason and discuss in your country can be substituted.)

So the U.S. in the spirit of the political season is stressing better 'education', and by education they mean the increasing test scores in math and sciences. So now I have to hear ramblings about the U.S. falling behind in the math and sciences, and how this country has better test scores than us and how we can better yadayadayada. My issue is that no one ever brings up the arts, be it fine or liberal. I have never heard a politician call for a renewed focus on the creative aspects of learning, instead focusing on the 'rational' studies. This could be ignored as regular politics if this thought process didn't extend into my everyday life, which it does. Every time I state my major as English and my minor as philosophy I get the same old responses: "Why would you pick that?" "That's a waste." Why is there so little care in these fields beyond math and science? It can't be the reasoning part, because philosophy and english classes should by design teach proper reasoning skills, and it can't be the interest factor, because there are multiple groups of people who prefer these neglected fields. Thoughts Escapist?
(Don't Just state the demands of the job market because that still raises the question as to why these select skills are devalued in the market in the first place)

Number of quality-of-life altering inventions created by people not using Math and Science in the last 150 years: 0

Number of quality-of-life altering inventions created by people using Math and Science in the last 150 years: ALL THE THINGS.

That's why. English/Fine Arts is a fine sign of the times, the culture, the general zeitgeist - but it will never fix economies, it will never fix energy issues, it will never fix transportation problems, and it will never fix famine.

What Art does is improve things. Art makes everything better. More aesthetically pleasing, more meaningful, poignant, or more timely. Art is a commentary of humanity, will never direct humanity except in the most abstract fashion.

Encouraging creative behavior in students is necessary for a well-rounded education, yes, but more often than not it's simple endurance that gets results. Occasionally there's a burst of imagination that leads to an exceedingly sublime solution to a problem - one of those "Eureka!" moments, but it's rare and far between.

So if you're a country who's facing an economically unstable situation, where would you put your investments? The gal who might find a cheap new iron-based battery to rival Lithium-Ion but at 10% the cost for materials - or the guy who's really good at spotting logical fallacies?

Art can't fix economies...

The largest, most affluent city in America, built almost entirely on the back of it's local film industry, would appear to say otherwise.

Nothing is recession-proof. However, wherever there are people, there are people willing to pay to be entertained or engaged in some form or another. In times of economic uncertainty, if anything this connection gets even stronger, as people are more inclined to want some escapism from the problems in their everyday lives. Entertainment industries (and by extension the Arts), are probably the most stable exports that the Western world, and America in particular, has right now. Will it cure cancer? Of course not. But Art and Business have always gone hand in hand (despite their inherent differences) making Art extremely useful from a practical point of view, as well as just aesthetic.

 

[Confidingtripod]

because arts and such subjects encourage free thought and expression which is not what governments want.

I know that sounds like I'm a tinfoil hat anarchist but its true, its easyer to run a society like clockwork than concensus, if people are taught to have a role and fill it, keeping personal oppinions to themselves and immediate friends then things are easyer to run than people constantly debating and pushing boundrys, welcome to modern politics

(off topic: who redesigned the capcha? mine is "giant bunny rabbit"... why? )

 

[Moderated]

What does English have to do with art?
Art is useless, English is useful to a point, then it's pretty much useless.

 

[SciMal]

Art can't fix economies...

The largest, most affluent city in America, built almost entirely on the back of it's local film industry, would appear to say otherwise.

Do I even have to list the number of inventions necessary to produce films?

The camera? Film? Computers and physics engines these days?

Hollywood is a great example of inventions being used for art, but Hollywood would still be a piece of dirt if the camera had never been invented, refined, and used for motion pictures.

Nothing is recession-proof. However, wherever there are people, there are people willing to pay to be entertained or engaged in some form or another. In times of economic uncertainty, if anything this connection gets even stronger, as people are more inclined to want some escapism from the problems in their everyday lives. Entertainment industries (and by extension the Arts), are probably the most stable exports that the Western world, and America in particular, has right now. Will it cure cancer? Of course not. But Art and Business have always gone hand in hand (despite their inherent differences) making Art extremely useful from a practical point of view, as well as just aesthetic.

I never said art couldn't be useful. I said it made things better and provided commentary. Art is not invention, though. The internet - one of the most existence-altering inventions in the history of mankind - was invented by military communications experts. Vaccines - which have saved hundreds of millions of lives - invented by a medical doctor in England.

Name something that an Artist invented - not simply used to create their art - and then maybe we'll have a real conversation.

 

[Stasisesque]

Nothing is recession-proof. However, wherever there are people, there are people willing to pay to be entertained or engaged in some form or another. In times of economic uncertainty, if anything this connection gets even stronger, as people are more inclined to want some escapism from the problems in their everyday lives. Entertainment industries (and by extension the Arts), are probably the most stable exports that the Western world, and America in particular, has right now. Will it cure cancer? Of course not. But Art and Business have always gone hand in hand (despite their inherent differences) making Art extremely useful from a practical point of view, as well as just aesthetic.

I never said art couldn't be useful. I said it made things better and provided commentary. Art is not invention, though. The internet - one of the most existence-altering inventions in the history of mankind - was invented by military communications experts. Vaccines - which have saved hundreds of millions of lives - invented by a medical doctor in England.

Name something that an Artist invented - not simply used to create their art - and then maybe we'll have a real conversation.

Are you accepting the obvious answers, like Leonardo da Vinci?

 

[thesilentman]

(This doesn't apply to only English, whatever language that is used to reason and discuss in your country can be substituted.)

So the U.S. in the spirit of the political season is stressing better 'education', and by education they mean the increasing test scores in math and sciences. So now I have to hear ramblings about the U.S. falling behind in the math and sciences, and how this country has better test scores than us and how we can better yadayadayada. My issue is that no one ever brings up the arts, be it fine or liberal. I have never heard a politician call for a renewed focus on the creative aspects of learning, instead focusing on the 'rational' studies. This could be ignored as regular politics if this thought process didn't extend into my everyday life, which it does. Every time I state my major as English and my minor as philosophy I get the same old responses: "Why would you pick that?" "That's a waste." Why is there so little care in these fields beyond math and science? It can't be the reasoning part, because philosophy and english classes should by design teach proper reasoning skills, and it can't be the interest factor, because there are multiple groups of people who prefer these neglected fields. Thoughts Escapist?
(Don't Just state the demands of the job market because that still raises the question as to why these select skills are devalued in the market in the first place)

Math is an interesting and insanely powerful tool that shows many of the world's patterns around us. Science helps us recognize those patterns and use them in our day to day life. Compare that with English and you see why people prefer Math and Science. There's also the fact that everyone's learning English nowadays. OP, I come from India, where they teach English around the same time the American kiddies start daycare. They also teach English through grammar and mechanics, not by the 'how does it sound' bullshit in the States. So the world's fine with English; math and science on the other hand requires a good fundamental knowledge, something that the States seems to be lacking in.

 

[SciMal]

Are you accepting the obvious answers, like Leonardo da Vinci?

Good answer. Let me narrow my scope a bit since my original post was more about the abstract instances and not the people themselves: Name a piece of art that radically changed the way people lived for several generations.

 

[Bonham79]

-Makes thread about why no-one cares about the English language

-Leaves grammatical error in the thread title

That's why OP.

I knew that was going to happen. That's what I get for creating a random post right from the top of my head. Want to point out the errors for matters of personal growth?

 

[Bonham79]

(This doesn't apply to only English, whatever language that is used to reason and discuss in your country can be substituted.)

I have to take issue with art never 'affecting people but in the most abstract fashion.' There are pieces of art so poignant that it creates a very powerful response in the viewer. Picasso's Guernica cannot be viewed without understanding how disgustingly horrible Spain suffered in war. When one sees the screams of the figures and complete devastation that affects the form of the figures themselves, you can't help but understand some form of this horror. Will it create a complete paradigm change? Perhaps not, but it does leave an impression on the viewer. The term, 'a picture is worth a thousand words' comes to mind. It allows one to understand a different mind, a different place. It may be abstract, but not that far off abstract.

Towards your 'lithium battery' angle. What typically brings an economy from recession to prosperity is either complete innovation or restoration of the previous flow of the economy. Refining a previous existing item seldom restarts an economy as much as it continues its growth. This innovation is seldom found in math and sciences. They by nature encourage status quo mechanics. All thinking must be deductive and based on previous efforts and forms of thinking. When the thinking fails, they are just replaced by another form of thinking that takes place in a specified instance. Any society that would actively encourage this form above all others would reduce its innovative capacity.

 

[Bonham79]

because arts and such subjects encourage free thought and expression which is not what governments want.

I know that sounds like I'm a tinfoil hat anarchist but its true, its easyer to run a society like clockwork than concensus, if people are taught to have a role and fill it, keeping personal oppinions to themselves and immediate friends then things are easyer to run than people constantly debating and pushing boundrys, welcome to modern politics

(off topic: who redesigned the capcha? mine is "giant bunny rabbit"... why? )

I would say that gives government too much credit, and shift the blame towards the societal mindset encouraging such.

(For some reason mine is dish network, at least it's easier to read)

 

[Bonham79]

Are you accepting the obvious answers, like Leonardo da Vinci?

Good answer. Let me narrow my scope a bit since my original post was more about the abstract instances and not the people themselves: Name a piece of art that radically changed the way people lived for several generations.

I can point out literary art like 'The Jungle' that can be traced to the establishment of the Pure Food and Drug Act, or 'Uncle Tom's Cabin' that Lincoln himself traced back to the start of the civil war and the abolition of slavery, I'm pretty sure an art buff or movie buff could point out similar traits in their respective interests.

 

[Bonham79]

Would English be the language that you think and reason in or would Hindi be your primary toungue? As well, are these English classes treated as a second language class or are they held up to the same detail as that involved in a reading and writing class?