Why every shooter should have leaning

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

As you can see in the above clip, leaning allows you to correct your aim without any (or very little) chance of over-correcting your aim. At exactly 2:09, you see that I aimed just slightly right of the enemy, then I correct myself just by leaning left instead of moving my aim. Of course, I realize that with a KB/M over-correcting aim is much much much less of an issue. However, leaning still allows for other things like having your character "moving" to a degree while being fully offensive without any accuracy debuffs one usually receives while moving. Lastly, your character can obviously utilize cover better but leaning in the open is usually more useful than leaning around cover. Any competitive shooter without leaning very much hurts the dynamics of gunfights.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Leaning adds an interesting dynamic I'm sure. But most FPS's are not going to incorporate leaning because it adds complexity to the controls for console users. And developers have done research that shows them that console players do not like overly complex actions or controls, it is a big reason why FPS's don't have weapon wheels anymore and players are usually limited to a small asortment of guns at once.

Of course there are standout exceptions to this, like Doom and Wolfenstein. However only one of those games has leaning (iirc) and one of those games allows the player to hold a ton of guns depending on what you consider "tons".

The point is, the console market is still holding back gaming in a few ways. And generally developers make games for as many platforms as they can to maximize coverage and thus consoles hold back the PC game potential.

 

[Bad Jim]

The real aiming solution for controllers would be motion controls. If you've played Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask or something similar on the 3DS you will have noticed that it is very easy to aim by tilting the controller, it's almost as good as using a mouse.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

The real aiming solution for controllers would be motion controls. If you've played Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask or something similar on the 3DS you will have noticed that it is very easy to aim by tilting the controller, it's almost as good as using a mouse.

Or Splatoon.

The pro teams of which swear by the motion aiming.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I feel like leaning is always clunky in console games.

Leaning in shooters on the PC is great (and much easier to balance due to the precision of a mouse), but on console I tend to almost ignore leaning altogether. It tends to be clumsy and just slows me down whenever I try to do it.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Leaning kinda ties into cover systems, and is really a more natural form of cover augmentation imo. It's basically pointless in arena shooters but for something more tactical and immersive it is only welcomed.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Haven't played many FPS games with leaning, but those I did felt finicky. In stead of it slipping into second nature, it always felt like a mechanic I had to remind myself was there. Just strafing around works much better.

 

[DrownedAmmet]

Haven't played many FPS games with leaning, but those I did felt finicky. In stead of it slipping into second nature, it always felt like a mechanic I had to remind myself was there. Just strafing around works much better.

This is my experience as well. I use it a lot for PvE games, but for PvP games by the time I stop at a corner, remember what button to press to lean, and slowly peak around the corner I get shot in the ass

Far better to just run around the corner normally and keep moving

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

I remember the days when most old school PC FPS games had leaning, even Crysis 1 had leaning.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Leaning adds an interesting dynamic I'm sure. But most FPS's are not going to incorporate leaning because it adds complexity to the controls for console users. And developers have done research that shows them that console players do not like overly complex actions or controls, it is a big reason why FPS's don't have weapon wheels anymore and players are usually limited to a small asortment of guns at once.

Of course there are standout exceptions to this, like Doom and Wolfenstein. However only one of those games has leaning (iirc) and one of those games allows the player to hold a ton of guns depending on what you consider "tons".

The point is, the console market is still holding back gaming in a few ways. And generally developers make games for as many platforms as they can to maximize coverage and thus consoles hold back the PC game potential.

A lot of what is considered "hardcore" game series for console gaming originated with complex controls like MGS. The spectacle fighter genre started on consoles as well. Sure, you're going to get more sales with a game that's easy to pick up and play but if you budget games properly, you'll make a tidy profit off making a good niche game as well with probably less actual risk of losing money. The first Dishonored was budgeted to make a profit at 800k units sold for example. Anyway, MGS4 has leaning in it and sold extremely well. Aforementioned Dishonored has leaning in it too. You can make leaning a mechanic that people don't even have to use nor waste a controller button to implement (ala MGS4). Most people don't use any game's advanced mechanics like according to trophy data only 68% of Bayonetta players used dodge offset to execute a wicked weave attack, any hardcore player does that as second nature.

The majority of gamers on any platform prefer simpler games and publishers want to sell more games so it goes hand-in-hand with simpler games. It's why something like Divinity Original Sin had to be Kickstarted and that's a PC game.

I feel like leaning is always clunky in console games.

Leaning in shooters on the PC is great (and much easier to balance due to the precision of a mouse), but on console I tend to almost ignore leaning altogether. It tends to be clumsy and just slows me down whenever I try to do it.

Leaning is more useful on a controller due it being the best way to correct your aim without over-correcting (which isn't really a problem with a mouse). I just takes some time to learn and get good at like say dodge offsetting in Bayonetta. I was told by the best player in MoH Warfighter that I was the most annoying player to play against because I was always constantly leaning in every gunfight.

I'd rather just end console first person shooters. Feels horrible. If I'm buying a console, I wanna play the kinds of games I usually don't get on PC. Games that play well on a controller. I mean, as well as they can. I don't use leaning much in the PC shooters that have it, so not a big deal for me there either.

So don't play FPSs on a console, problem solved; instead of "ending" console FPSs. As you can see in the video, I (and of course others) have no problem aiming with a controller. Using every tool available is essential to competitive shooters, doing the little things better is what allows you to out-play great players.

I use it a lot for PvE games, but for PvP games by the time I stop at a corner, remember what button to press to lean, and slowly peak around the corner I get shot in the ass

Far better to just run around the corner normally and keep moving

Leaning is more useful in the open than it is leaning around corners.

 

[Sean Hollyman]

I find it useful because I'm not just occupying the space next to cover as an easy target.

 

[Squilookle]

You get the same effect by strafing. People have been doing that for years.

Nah, I'd rather just end [console shooters] and have those developers make other kinds of games.

It's a damn good thing you're not in charge then.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I'd rather just end console first person shooters. Feels horrible. If I'm buying a console, I wanna play the kinds of games I usually don't get on PC. Games that play well on a controller. I mean, as well as they can. I don't use leaning much in the PC shooters that have it, so not a big deal for me there either.

So don't play FPSs on a console, problem solved; instead of "ending" console FPSs. As you can see in the video, I (and of course others) have no problem aiming with a controller. Using every tool available is essential to competitive shooters, doing the little things better is what allows you to out-play great players.

Nah, I'd rather just end them and have those developers make other kinds of games.

There's only one console exclusive FPS made this gen so far. I'd rather have developers make games in other genres that are better than FPSs as well.

You get the same effect by strafing. People have been doing that for years.

You usually get accuracy debuffs when strafing. Plus, leaning is a mechanic you can put into any shooter and not waste any buttons like MGS4 for example.

 

[Squilookle]

You get the same effect by strafing. People have been doing that for years.

You usually get accuracy debuffs when strafing. Plus, leaning is a mechanic you can put into any shooter and not waste any buttons like MGS4 for example.

Or you could just... lose the debuff?

 

[JohnnyDelRay]

I've only played PC games which have leaning, and I must say it is a welcome mechanic. It's actually a much more realistic form of cover, rather than popping your whole body out of cover to take a shot. Rainbow 6 games are a good example of this.

Before the Vegas series, you could line up to a corner, and peek out of it to take your shot, just exposing your upper body. Quicker, more precise, less risky. Then came the Vegas series which introduced cover system, which takes you ages to pop out and take a shot, especially if you're in heavy armor. In multiplayer, it's just not worth it, gets you killed, and you soon ditch it, and only use it to use the 3rd person view to scan the area without exposing yourself at all. But taking shots from cover is suicide.

Why would a trained specialist throw his whole body out of cover to take a shot anyway, it's just stupid, and doesn't really go with the Rainbow realism - especially when you shoot from your less dominant side, huge awkward swing of the body into enemy line of fire. Why would an agent do this? You'd think they would learn to switch shoulders, heck I even learned to do that while playing airsoft. Having said that, it's still an awesome game, nobody forces you to use the cover system.

Leaning is more useful in the open than it is leaning around corners.

Honestly I've never tried this, but I feel it could be somewhat limited for my use, except for really fine tuning, like with a sniper rifle/DMR. Maybe with consoles it makes sense, but I've trained myself to strafe rather than tap the left stick for finer control, or a mix of both. Since I've always thought of leaning as a "expose less of your body" mechanic primarily, it just seemed weird to lean out in the open.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

You get the same effect by strafing. People have been doing that for years.

You usually get accuracy debuffs when strafing. Plus, leaning is a mechanic you can put into any shooter and not waste any buttons like MGS4 for example.

Or you could just... lose the debuff?

In any semi-realistic shooter (which even an MGS falls into), it doesn't make sense to not have aiming debuffs on strafing, which can be pretty powerful as the Fleet Foot booster (increases strafe speed) in Uncharted 2&3 was so OP that it was removed for UC4. It really doesn't make sense that you can aim as well moving than you can standing still. If it's some arcade-y shooter like Shadow Warrior or Bulletstorm, then not having any accuracy debuffs make sense.

As you can see in the video, I (and of course others) have no problem aiming with a controller.

Just watched it. I noticed you're frequently strafing sideways and not aiming. I see that A LOT when I watch console players. Hmm. Wonder why.

I was leaning more often than I was strafing.

 

[Squilookle]

You get the same effect by strafing. People have been doing that for years.

You usually get accuracy debuffs when strafing. Plus, leaning is a mechanic you can put into any shooter and not waste any buttons like MGS4 for example.

Or you could just... lose the debuff?

In any semi-realistic shooter (which even an MGS falls into), it doesn't make sense to not have aiming debuffs on strafing, which can be pretty powerful as the Fleet Foot booster (increases strafe speed) in Uncharted 2&3 was so OP that it was removed for UC4. It really doesn't make sense that you can aim as well moving than you can standing still. If it's some arcade-y shooter like Shadow Warrior or Bulletstorm, then not having any accuracy debuffs make sense.

Please don't start with that realism nonsense. I could just as well point out that the very idea of keeping your eye perfectly lined up with two different sights on your gun at all times when moving even in the slightest is unrealistic. But having your ADS vanish every time you touch any control other than fire is poor game design, so leeway must be allowed. Removing the debuff from strafing is the exact same game design philosophy. Not realistic perhaps, but Gameplay is more important than realism. Every. Single. Time.

You've identified a gameplay issue- over correcting aim. You don't want to add too many buttons to overcomplicate the control scheme. Fair enough. Shooters since the dawn of strafing have had players that use it for fine aiming, especially on consoles. Increasing the fire cone during movement (aim debuff) is a burden to this ease-of-use philosophy. So just get rid of it, or make it only take effect after a meter or two of continuous strafing. No extra buttons needed, and fine aim adjustment using the existing foot controls now work perfectly well.

It really is that simple.​