Why I do not like MGS5 phantom pain

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asdfen

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man I wanted a good bashing of MGS5 but Yahtzee was too lazy aka "efficient".

There is so much to bash in MGS5.

world is very washed out gray looking
the first mssion that stretches for an hour consists almost entierly of a single gameplay element - press forward
open world with nothing at all to do between mission. You've captured 1 outpost you've captured all of them
AI is some of the most atrocious ever. If they detected player they all charge in straight line to close into melee range even though they all have ranged weapons! For stealth as son soon as player enters the outpost all the guards magically start patrolling/looking/checking the players location. Its awful
Mission variety is nonexistent. There are around 10 major outposts in game and all the mission take part around their infiltration...
A lot of mission objectives are convoluted bullshit. For instance hitting a character that dodges everything with an attack, extracting some animal from some god forsaken corner of the map you would never normally go, picking up a flower in a remote location...
controls in the game are a mess. trying to extract a npc character is a chore due to character instead jumping over sandbags or out of the windows over the railing to the death and so on. hand to hand chain fails to connect on if the characters have any elevation difference like stairs. hand to hand prompts sometimes come up from insane long distance sometimes not until in the enemies face. Trying to pick up a body is a nightmare as its the same button for switching weapons that enemy just dropped.
bullets go through npcs sometimes
explosive weapons most of the time do zero damage unless its a direct hit
player set mines do not trigger properly.
balancing - there are naked boss battles where a naked character can take over a dozen c4 charges explosion before going down... Shotgun enemies can 1 shot, stun lock, and do more damage over long distance than enemy snipers
base management is atrocious lacking basic features like select all staff from a category. Not to mention managing 700 personal is tedious but required if you want to obtain end game upgrades. 95% success missions failing multiple times in a row.
one of AI partners that player may have spent considerable time and resources developing becomes permanently unavailable after a certain mission
some games important features are never explained: fast travel system, Anti-Air radars, ability to instantly get onto chopter outside of mission, ability to etract yourself by jumping on top of a container, medals system for personel, etc
story is mediocre anime drivel as usual, but most people know that by now
this game spawned atrocious MGS Ground Zeroes - paid demo
In summary there is nothing new here. All of the games features have been already done elsewhere and better. Its like Far Cry 4 light edition to me. Far Cry 4 I had way more fun with.

kudos
 

Casual Shinji

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asdfen said:
AI is some of the most atrocious ever. If they detected player they all charge in straight line to close into melee range even though they all have ranged weapons! For stealth as son soon as player enters the outpost all the guards magically start patrolling/looking/checking the players location. Its awful
Except they don't, unless you acquired some faulty copy. The enemy flat-out sees you, and everyone focusses their fire on the spot they can see you at, or where they last saw you. The enemy detects you (like your attack), and everyone pulls back into cover and then sends a group of 2 to 4 guys to the location the attack came from to investigate.

And I don't know where you're getting enemies instantly searching for you as soon as you enter a camp, unless they caught wind of you for something you did. I crawled around a heavily fortified military base with a patrolling attack chopper without anyone noticing my presence. And I doubt I'm somekind of super skilled player.
Shotgun enemies can 1 shot, stun lock, and do more damage over long distance than enemy snipers
No they can't, except up close (again, unless your copy is somehow busted). The heavy armored side ops has dudes with shotguns, and if you park yourself even 100 yards away and pick them off with a sniper rifle they can't do nothing... unless they get close. You get close to them and shotguns will fuck you up, but that would seem only natural.
base management is atrocious lacking basic features like select all staff from a category. Not to mention managing 700 personal is tedious but required if you want to obtain end game upgrades. 95% success missions failing multiple times in a row.
This is why you let the game auto-manage the staff and only check in to cut out the Trouble Makers. It's there if you want to micro manage, but there's no reason to bother with it, because the game handles it fine on its own.
some games important features are never explained: fast travel system, Anti-Air radars, ability to instantly get onto chopter outside of mission, ability to etract yourself by jumping on top of a container, medals system for personel, etc
First of all, a lot of these are easter eggs. Like hiding in a cardboard box in the truck in MGS3 and getting transported to the hangar. The game doesn't tell you you can and it's not a necessity at all, but it's there for the people who are curious. Metal Gear Solid games have always had these little details. You can also use supply drops to fall on enemies and knock them out. It even makes one Boss battle laughably easy, just like turning the clock of the console forward for like week with The End Boss battle in MGS3.

And secondly the 'Return to ACC' option is right there in the pause menu
 

josemlopes

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There are some things that can be bashed around but most of what you said is just wrong, and it doesnt take a fan to see that you are bullshiting your way through the post. It reminds me of a console war post where its just saying a lot of stuff without true meaning behind it.

So yeah, my main problem with the game is that so far (finished Chapter 1, wont spoil anything) the story is lackluster and the plot is worse then Peace Walker (it was shit). The parts where its about Big Boss and his team are good and interesting but everything related to Skullface is bad. I'm hoping that Chapter 2 justifies this story being the one used to fill the time gap that was missing in the series.

Skullface motivations basicly boil down to this
 

Areloch

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Casual Shinji said:
asdfen said:
AI is some of the most atrocious ever. If they detected player they all charge in straight line to close into melee range even though they all have ranged weapons! For stealth as son soon as player enters the outpost all the guards magically start patrolling/looking/checking the players location. Its awful
Except they don't, unless you acquired some faulty copy. The enemy flat-out sees you, and everyone focusses their fire on the spot they can see you at, or where they last saw you. The enemy detects you (like your attack), and everyone pulls back into cover and then sends a group of 2 to 4 guys to the location the attack came from to investigate.

And I don't know where you're getting enemies instantly searching for you as soon as you enter a camp, unless they caught wind of you for something you did. I crawled around a heavily fortified military base with a patrolling attack chopper without anyone noticing my presence. And I doubt I'm somekind of super skilled player.
If you cause an alert and the outpost/base as a functioning communications system, they'll call out to other bases and tell them to be alert that there's enemy activity, so all bases will be in a caution state for a while. That's probably what happened there.

world is very washed out gray looking
You could argue that the color pallet is lacking, but you must not be familiar with what the color gray is if you think this game is that.

the first mssion that stretches for an hour consists almost entierly of a single gameplay element - press forward
If I wanted to snark, I could claim that every single game ever consists almost entirely of a single gameplay element - pressing forward.
Fact is, you're unarmed and you're sneaking past people. What exactly was your plan other than to keep moving?

Mission variety is nonexistent. There are around 10 major outposts in game and all the mission take part around their infiltration...
I've gotta ask. What were you expecting? It's a game about sneaking tactical combat that revolves around infiltrating enemy bases.

A lot of mission objectives are convoluted bullshit. For instance hitting a character that dodges everything with an attack, extracting some animal from some god forsaken corner of the map you would never normally go, picking up a flower in a remote location...
Those sound rather straightforward. I'm not sure 'convoluted' is the word you're looking for. And given that you JUST complained about how every mission is 'infiltrate a base', this sounds to be a conflicting complaint if you also have to track down people, animals, supplies, etc.

Controls in the game are a mess. trying to extract a npc character is a chore due to character instead jumping over sandbags or out of the windows over the railing to the death and so on.

Trying to pick up a body is a nightmare as its the same button for switching weapons that enemy just dropped.
bullets go through npcs sometimes
This can indeed be annoying(though I think 'mess' is drastically overselling the problem), unfortunately, it's an issue intrinsic to console-games in general. Contexted Area Interaction prompts are pretty awful.

balancing - there are naked boss battles where a naked character can take over a dozen c4 charges explosion before going down... Shotgun enemies can 1 shot, stun lock, and do more damage over long distance than enemy snipers
The first thing is just boss battles in general. That's how almost every boss battle that's ever existed works. You can argue that's lame, but it's not unusual at all.

I've also never had shotguns snipe me. Are you positive it wasn't actually a sniper? Because they'll hit you like a truck.

this game spawned atrocious MGS Ground Zeroes - paid demo
I don't understand how this is a strike against the Phantom Pain as a game?
 

Casual Shinji

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josemlopes said:
So yeah, my main problem with the game is that so far (finished Chapter 1, wont spoil anything) the story is lackluster and the plot is worse then Peace Walker (it was shit). The parts where its about Big Boss and his team are good and interesting but everything related to Skullface is bad. I'm hoping that Chapter 2 justifies this story being the one used to fill the time gap that was missing in the series.

Skullface motivations basicly boil down to this
I'd say my biggest problem as of yet is the game giving mixed messages surrounding certain Boss encounters. The biggest one being...

...the second encounter with the burning man. I had no clue whether to fight him or avoid him. I figured I was supposed to avoid the guy since nothing hurts him, but call in a chopper and he blows it up. So then I realize I need to use the water tanks, but that doesn't kill him, it only stuns him. So I figure 'stun him first, then call in the chopper'. Miller even explicitly tells you to stop him first before calling Pequad. But the stun doesn't last long enough. So I basically needed to time it so as to stun him as Pequad was arriving, and ignoring Miller's advice. It was fucking frustrating.

Same goes for extracting the truck from the Skulls unit. I need to get that truck out of there, but if I try to drive it the Skulls tear it apart in no time, and if I try to fight them they kill me in no time. If it wasn't for Quiet I never would've made it through that one.

The boss fights as of yet have been very meh. The two sniper battles were great, but every other one was just not up to Metal Gear standards.

And yeah, the story isn't great. And Snake/Big Boss might as well have been a silent protagonist with the amount of dialoge he has. Here's hoping Chapter 2 improves a bit on this. And just for those playing the game and getting to those long end credits... Don't worry, that's just the end of Chapter 1. I was getting seriously pissed initially thinking that was the end of the game.
 

anthony87

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Casual Shinji said:
...the second encounter with the burning man. I had no clue whether to fight him or avoid him. I figured I was supposed to avoid the guy since nothing hurts him, but call in a chopper and he blows it up. So then I realize I need to use the water tanks, but that doesn't kill him, it only stuns him. So I figure 'stun him first, then call in the chopper'. Miller even explicitly tells you to stop him first before calling Pequad. But the stun doesn't last long enough. So I basically needed to time it so as to stun him as Pequad was arriving, and ignoring Miller's advice. It was fucking frustrating.

Same goes for extracting the truck from the Skulls unit. I need to get that truck out of there, but if I try to drive it the Skulls tear it apart in no time, and if I try to fight them they kill me in no time. If it wasn't for Quiet I never would've made it through that one.
Oh man that truck thing was pissing me off. In the end the way I did it was kinda lame....

One thing I noticed was that the Skulls seem to always have some slight idea where Snake is so I basically just stayed prone, kept 30 yards or so between myself and the Skulls and when they were far enough away I circled around and extracted the truck. After that I just waltzed out of the hot zone feeling quite smug for having outsmarted them.
 

Leon Royce

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I will say this:

I wish they hadn't put so many resources into an online component I paid for but will never touch, and had created a third map instead. I'm at mission 30 and having trouble finding motivation to continue since I've seen all the maps have to offer, and the Africa map was boring. The part they demo'ed last year looked great, with cliffs, swamps, rope bridges, gorges etc... but 95% of the Africa map was flat terrain and shanty towns.

Shanty towns are incredibly boring.
 

josemlopes

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Casual Shinji said:
josemlopes said:
So yeah, my main problem with the game is that so far (finished Chapter 1, wont spoil anything) the story is lackluster and the plot is worse then Peace Walker (it was shit). The parts where its about Big Boss and his team are good and interesting but everything related to Skullface is bad. I'm hoping that Chapter 2 justifies this story being the one used to fill the time gap that was missing in the series.

Skullface motivations basicly boil down to this
I'd say my biggest problem as of yet is the game giving mixed messages surrounding certain Boss encounters. The biggest one being...

...the second encounter with the burning man. I had no clue whether to fight him or avoid him. I figured I was supposed to avoid the guy since nothing hurts him, but call in a chopper and he blows it up. So then I realize I need to use the water tanks, but that doesn't kill him, it only stuns him. So I figure 'stun him first, then call in the chopper'. Miller even explicitly tells you to stop him first before calling Pequad. But the stun doesn't last long enough. So I basically needed to time it so as to stun him as Pequad was arriving, and ignoring Miller's advice. It was fucking frustrating.

Same goes for extracting the truck from the Skulls unit. I need to get that truck out of there, but if I try to drive it the Skulls tear it apart in no time, and if I try to fight them they kill me in no time. If it wasn't for Quiet I never would've made it through that one.

The boss fights as of yet have been very meh. The two sniper battles were great, but every other one was just not up to Metal Gear standards.

And yeah, the story isn't great. And Snake/Big Boss might as well have been a silent protagonist with the amount of dialoge he has. Here's hoping Chapter 2 improves a bit on this. And just for those playing the game and getting to those long end credits... Don't worry, that's just the end of Chapter 1. I was getting seriously pissed initially thinking that was the end of the game.
Regarding the boss fights
I didnt had much issues with the Man on Fire one, I did loose a helicopter because at first I thought that the stun was all it was needed but after that I used the water towers and then finally the pool, I think it was obvious that you had to fight him since Miller kept saying to remember about the first encounter we had with him.

Those Skulls I didnt had a problem either, nothing a rocket to the face wont solve. The sniper Skulls on the other hand, fuck that. I did Quiet without issues but the other ones was terrible to me. Most of the times I couldnt move since I had 3 lasers circling the rock I was hiding behind, ended up sprinting in circles and diving everywhere.

The first encounter with the Metal Gear is also ass since I have to pray to Kojima for that fucker to not cross the map in 3 seconds to my exact position and not decide to shoot down the helicopter for the lulz.

For all the "pure game" elements that MGS5 still has they did a terrible job with the bosses. So many mechanics and none of the bosses take advantage of them
 

Sleepy Sol

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Casual Shinji said:
I'd say my biggest problem as of yet is the game giving mixed messages surrounding certain Boss encounters. The biggest one being...

...the second encounter with the burning man. I had no clue whether to fight him or avoid him. I figured I was supposed to avoid the guy since nothing hurts him, but call in a chopper and he blows it up. So then I realize I need to use the water tanks, but that doesn't kill him, it only stuns him. So I figure 'stun him first, then call in the chopper'. Miller even explicitly tells you to stop him first before calling Pequad. But the stun doesn't last long enough. So I basically needed to time it so as to stun him as Pequad was arriving, and ignoring Miller's advice. It was fucking frustrating.

Same goes for extracting the truck from the Skulls unit. I need to get that truck out of there, but if I try to drive it the Skulls tear it apart in no time, and if I try to fight them they kill me in no time. If it wasn't for Quiet I never would've made it through that one.
Very much agreed about the mixed messages on what to do during encounters, but there is an easier way to do the first one.

You can just smack him into the reservoir Miller comments when you walk near it with one of the jeeps around the area and it incapacitates him long enough that you don't need to frustratingly time the instant you call in the chopper. It may even be a permanent incapacitation since he just disappeared as far as I could tell, but I wasn't going to wait after getting frustrated myself.

OP, a good number of things you're saying are just flat-out incorrect, but I dunno if I really want to bother to address them. MGSV is certainly not a flawless game, but you're looking for ones that aren't there or presenting bad information.
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

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Casual Shinji said:
And yeah, the story isn't great. And Snake/Big Boss might as well have been a silent protagonist with the amount of dialoge he has. Here's hoping Chapter 2 improves a bit on this. And just for those playing the game and getting to those long end credits... Don't worry, that's just the end of Chapter 1. I was getting seriously pissed initially thinking that was the end of the game.
I've yet to play MGSV, but I've always seen Snake (Solid, Naked, Boss, whoever) as the equivalent dialogue type as Raziel from Soul Reaver. Any time there's heavy dialogue in Soul Reaver, especially with Kain, poor Raziel is reduced to "and?" "he did what?" lines for every essay-length dialogue Kain speaks. Snake's pretty much the same, a few lines here and there and everyone else has paragraphs upon paragraphs.
 

EternallyBored

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Casual Shinji said:
And yeah, the story isn't great. And Snake/Big Boss might as well have been a silent protagonist with the amount of dialoge he has. Here's hoping Chapter 2 improves a bit on this. And just for those playing the game and getting to those long end credits... Don't worry, that's just the end of Chapter 1. I was getting seriously pissed initially thinking that was the end of the game.
Spoiler: it doesn't, or not really well at least, people are kind of pissed that the collector's edition making of reveals that an entire final Ground zeroes sized area was cut from the game that ties up the connection of BB from the prequels to his characterization from the MG games. The entirety of chapter 2 feels like it was rushed and incomplete, I won't spoil the ending, but I found chapter 2 to be roughly the same, story content wise, as chapter 1. It feels very sparse, and the ending doesn't really tie up the story the way you would expect the final MGS game to do.

as for the boss, others have mentioned other strategies, and the boss fight is unintuitive, but there's another way to beat him:

you can try to fulton him when he's stunned, you get an amusing line from Miller and Ocelot, the fulton fails but he's already off the map. I don't know if this permanently gets rid of him, but it gave me enough time to call in the chopper and escape. Shooting Psycho Mantis also stuns the man on fire
Volgin

Also, a couple of warnings for other people since the game will mess up your progress and other stuff with little foreshadowing:

mission 25 to about 29-30 need to be done back to back, after about mission 25 your mother base personnel become infected with a parasite, you can slow the spread by quarantining every staff member that speaks kikongo, but you are going to start losing staff, and anyone you fulton that speaks the language has a chance to spread it further, if you waste time doing side ops you can quickly find yourself losing staff members to death or being stuck in quarantine, even after you find the cure, pretty much everyone stuck in quarantine who was symptomatic ends up dying. I lost about a quarter of my staff after that, going from full staffing to all of my divisions losing multiple levels.

And:
quiet dies late in chapter 2 if your trust is high enough with her, she doesn't come back, so if you like using her as a buddy then get everything you want done with her before chapter 45. There is a way to stop her from leaving: using the butterfly in your emblem blocks her trust level from going high enough to trigger mission 45, I've heard you need to start using it as soon as mission 41 to prevent 45 from triggering. That way you can get all your side ops done without her dying. Unfortunately, she needs to die if you want 100% completion, I didn't care much for her character, but she was a useful buddy so permanently losing someone I had invested a million+ GMP into upgrading was a pain in the butt
 

SmugFrog

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Sep 4, 2008
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Solaire of Astora said:
OP, a good number of things you're saying are just flat-out incorrect, but I dunno if I really want to bother to address them. MGSV is certainly not a flawless game, but you're looking for ones that aren't there or presenting bad information.
I was happy seeing no one responding to this garbage this morning and hoping it would just fade away. It's obvious bait because the game doesn't work the ways the OP is complaining about.
 

asdfen

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you guys do reaize the game came out on multiple platforms and what I am experiencing maybe different then what you do due to playing the game on a different platform? Also the topic clearly states this is my personal opinion.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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asdfen said:
you guys do reaize the game came out on multiple platforms and what I am experiencing maybe different then what you do due to playing the game on a different platform? Also the topic clearly states this is my personal opinion.
It's still the same game. The AI and the way weapons work isn't a matter of opinion or the system that you play on.
 

Casual Shinji

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Imperioratorex Caprae said:
I've yet to play MGSV, but I've always seen Snake (Solid, Naked, Boss, whoever) as the equivalent dialogue type as Raziel from Soul Reaver. Any time there's heavy dialogue in Soul Reaver, especially with Kain, poor Raziel is reduced to "and?" "he did what?" lines for every essay-length dialogue Kain speaks. Snake's pretty much the same, a few lines here and there and everyone else has paragraphs upon paragraphs.
Yes and no.

Snake was always sort the regular gruff action hero of a few words, but the games always granted you a nice peak below the surface. You look at games like MGS1 and 3 and you could clearly tell Snake's emotional state. He even enjoyed a little joking around from time to time, and had moments of embarresment, too.

Snake in MGSV might as well be Link from Twilight Princess, just.... nothing. Many have lamented David Hayter not reprising the role, but even if did he'd have had nothing to say but one 7-word sentence every two hours.
Solaire of Astora said:
Very much agreed about the mixed messages on what to do during encounters, but there is an easier way to do the first one.

You can just smack him into the reservoir Miller comments when you walk near it with one of the jeeps around the area and it incapacitates him long enough that you don't need to frustratingly time the instant you call in the chopper. It may even be a permanent incapacitation since he just disappeared as far as I could tell, but I wasn't going to wait after getting frustrated myself.
I knew I probably had to do something with the pool, but at that point I was already livid, and I sure as hell wasn't going get into a vehicle with that guy near me. *points to Skulls*
anthony87 said:
Oh man that truck thing was pissing me off. In the end the way I did it was kinda lame....

One thing I noticed was that the Skulls seem to always have some slight idea where Snake is so I basically just stayed prone, kept 30 yards or so between myself and the Skulls and when they were far enough away I circled around and extracted the truck. After that I just waltzed out of the hot zone feeling quite smug for having outsmarted them.
Yeah, I never saw an oppertunity to do that, because they would be on me if I revealed just one inch of myself, AND you need to get, like, within 8 feet of the truck to get the guys to appear.

So I just got to the closest possible cover to get them to spawn, and then just had Quiet snipe them all. Took a bit of time, but fuck it. And the funny thing was that once they were all dead Miller called in saying "Wow Boss, you defeated all those Skulls!? You're awesome!" when all I did was hide like a babby.
 

Wuvlycuddles

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Casual Shinji said:
And yeah, the story isn't great. And Snake/Big Boss might as well have been a silent protagonist with the amount of dialoge he has. Here's hoping Chapter 2 improves a bit on this. And just for those playing the game and getting to those long end credits... Don't worry, that's just the end of Chapter 1. I was getting seriously pissed initially thinking that was the end of the game.
I thought this too, I think maybe they wanted a big name but didn't want to spend more money. I really miss the old codec conversations :(.
 

Denamic

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anthony87 said:
Oh man that truck thing was pissing me off. In the end the way I did it was kinda lame....

One thing I noticed was that the Skulls seem to always have some slight idea where Snake is so I basically just stayed prone, kept 30 yards or so between myself and the Skulls and when they were far enough away I circled around and extracted the truck. After that I just waltzed out of the hot zone feeling quite smug for having outsmarted them.
That's exactly what I did the first time I met them.
When you meet them the first time, they cover all your exits, so the first thing I tried try was attacking them. Didn't work out too well. And you can't directly sneak past them, because they'll see you. So I lured them down to the side of the bridge and pulled them down the ditch, then circled back and ran over the bridge. This has been my approach whenever possible when dealing with those fuckers.
 

asdfen

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LeathermanKick25 said:
asdfen said:
you guys do reaize the game came out on multiple platforms and what I am experiencing maybe different then what you do due to playing the game on a different platform? Also the topic clearly states this is my personal opinion.
You've said a game that features 3 locations you're in for most of the game are grey. Afghanistan, Africa and the middle of the ocean is not even in the remote fucking vicinity of grey.
to me the game feature mostly gray colors. the ocean I am guessing you mean mother base. I never go there as there is nothing to do there offline postgame. I've only been there whenever the story mission requiered it. Most of the outposts with missions I am screwing with are located on gray rock, brown roads very washed out pallete.