Why I Fight.

[1Life0Continues]

Hey, second ever topic, and I chose a doozy. But hey, what else is there?

I'm not going to pose a question. More, a rationale.

I'm probably one of those vocal "SJW's" this site seems to have a hard on for, but I don't class myself as a SJW. More, someone who has realised things could be better for everyone.

I don't claim to be a voice of all feminists (no one can, there's too many ideologies to have a singular "leader" and I wouldn't want that anyway) I can only outline why I fight. And why perhaps I have a vested interest in things being better and attempting to help others see.

Let me state what "branch" of feminism I come from. Or at least, what I strive for and from where. Because I'm not a Women's Studies major, nor am I a Sociologist. I'm a first year Social Work student in Australia learning the very basics of an intensely complex subject. As such, my technical and academic knowledge is limited and so I am going to make mistakes.

I come from the 'egalitarian feminism' area. Which, as I like to define it, is 'The pursuit of gender equality from the perspective of improving the lives of women'. Or basically, Centrist Feminism. Are there extremes to feminism? I answer that question with another question in do we need oxygen to live? But I don't consider myself any extreme. I'm not calling for the castration of all men (why would I, I like my penis; I USE my penis), nor am I asking for the censorship or removal of any material that isn't 'girl power or bust' because, as I've said in other threads, I like sexy. I like sex. Dammit, I like looking at women. I just happen to like looking at women with characters other than 'these are my tits aren't they nice to look at see them wobble big boy.' I acknowledge that there are factors relating to men in terms of family justice and criminal sexual assault sectors that need addressing just as much as anything feminism strives to achieve. And I personally believe that feminism (at least what I tend to believe I follow) will address these too, as they are inextricably intertwined with feminist ideals. Which in the end, is equality.

So let me start off (well, that's probably a misnomer but whatever) with a common catchphrase.

"Cannot unsee!"

I once lived in a world where I thought everything was great. And for me, it was. I mean, sure I had mental health issues, had several terrible relationships and I ride the poverty line in my country every month, but things were okay by me.

Then I met the woman who would become my wife. An outspoken, liberal, feminist, pagan, left-wing woman who was (and obviously still is)incredibly intelligent. And we fell in love.

Then, I witnessed my male privilege from the other side. My wife (then fiancée) was accused of being a filthy slut simply because she thought that the idea of women acting the same way sexually as men is totally okay (which it is). She was insulted, and absolutely denigrated in the worst possible way for daring to equate a woman's sexuality as the same as a man's. But what affected me the most was that I was genuinely and physically enraged by this attack on the woman I loved; while she simply looked at me and said "I'm used to it."

NO-ONE SHOULD EVER HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT! And she wasn't the only one. When I asked, every female friend I have said the same thing.

You never forget seeing something like that. And then you begin to see it everywhere. Because you can't help it. The veil has been pulled back and you start seeing the terrible lopsidedness of our cultural reality. You start seeing the prevalence of rape culture when women are taught to be victims by placing all the responsibility for not being raped on them, rather than men. When you start seeing the incredible dichotomy in entertainment, when comic book covers featuring 5 male Spider-Man variations including a goddamned PIG-MAN are all in powerful poses emitting strength, while the lone Spider-Girl is curled up in a T&A pose that makes her seem timid. This shit is everywhere and you can't stop seeing it. Which is why I fight. And to be brutally honest, it's the people that get tired of fighting, and get tired of doing the arguing that make it possible for it to continue.

To purloin and modify a disputed quote, "All that is necessary for the triumph of sexism is that good men say nothing."

And to those saying internet activism/feminism does nothing, I pose this; what do you truly know about the people that you think are only doing it on the internet. Because I fight daily, in every action I take. I make sure that I try to walk behind every woman on the street in a way that does not make me seem a threat to them. Because as much as I don't think I am, I might be to her. My 6'2" 300 pound fat frame looks ridiculous in the mirror, but to a 5 foot and change slim woman walking down the street, I am quite possibly a potential monster. I try to educate my friends about this, and slowly they are starting to see it. You might be correct, that some are simply getting upset at nothing. But you don't know if that's correct for all of us.

Why do I post here about this topic? Because I love gaming, and I want gaming available and accepted by everyone as a legitimate form of media. And the amount of warped viewpoints on women, or privilege, or hell the facts of bloody life seem to be so rampant here (and to be absolutely fair, everywhere else on the internet too), that I find myself unable to resist trying to "educate" here too. Unfortunately, I'm also a terrible arguer, with a highly emotional streak that means I end up resorting to colourful language and shouting. This probably harms my point a lot, but I have a big investment in this now and I want it to stop. I may be foolish thinking I have some of the answers because I don't and probably never will, but I like to think that if I can at least get one person to stop and say "You know what, I never thought of it that way before" then maybe things will get better. I have to admit that my way of achieving this is pretty antithetical to doing so, but my heart is in the right place...I hope.

It's why I won't stop fighting. Whether it's poorly or not. Because I've seen the hell women have to go through daily, and it's incredibly unpleasant. And that's a nice way of saying it. I can only hope I get better at my arguments as time goes by, and my education continues. And while I do not have children yet, if I have any daughters, the world I want to give them is one where they have no fear, where they are afforded the same opportunities as their male counterparts, where life for BOTH men and women is one of equality, harmony and above all respect.

And right now, that world does not exist.

There are a myriad of possible responses I am going to get for this post. I anticipate the hair-splitters, the semantic arguers, the outright name-callers and mod baiters, the ones who read the first paragraph and leaped at the chance to comment with smart arse responses, and the comedians too; I also hope to see some genuine support and maybe even a few people wondering if I might have a point. But I hold my breath for none of them. I didn't post this for opinions or comment (although I anticipate a push back against this phrase too)I posted this because I don't want to work inside other people's frameworks they built around me. I'm building my own with this post, and hoping that it can be used to understand why I might do what I do. As always, the right to modify and/or change an opinion is reserved because I'm a human being and that's what we do.

Thank you for reading.

 

[Barbas]

My hat's off to you; it seems like that's a pretty reasonable start and that you have good intentions. It is surprising how much changes when your outlook does. Before I came across feminism, there weren't many women that I really paid attention to, which was really a bit of a shame. When all is said and done, I'm pretty thankful that further reading into it has changed by perspective for the better.

 

[Thaluikhain]

But what affected me the most was that I was genuinely and physically enraged by this attack on the woman I loved; while she simply looked at me and said "I'm used to it."

NO-ONE SHOULD EVER HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT! And she wasn't the only one. When I asked, every female friend I have said the same thing.

I hear that. On a related note, this was posted a week or two ago on much the same subject: http://thoughtcatalog.com/chloe-angyal/2014/06/when-a-rape-threat-is-not-a-big-deal/

I disagree about not being able to unsee, though, a lot of people seem to be very good at not seeing it, though there are always constant moves to silence anyone or anything that might make them, so I suspect it's often a conscious effort.

 

[Pink Gregory]

...

Well, to be fair, I think that's generally an uncontroversial opinion you have there.

 

[1Life0Continues]

My hat's off to you; it seems like that's a pretty reasonable start and that you have good intentions. It is surprising how much changes when your outlook does. Before I came across feminism, there weren't many women that I really paid attention to, which was really a bit of a shame. When all is said and done, I'm pretty thankful that further reading into it has changed by perspective for the better.

Thank you for the kind words. They are much appreciated.

I disagree about not being able to unsee, though, a lot of people seem to be very good at not seeing it, though there are always constant moves to silence anyone or anything that might make them, so I suspect it's often a conscious effort.

I was mainly using the phrase in terms of myself. But I agree that it seems many who are unwilling to see the privilege they have are very well versed in consciously avoiding dealing with it. However, that behaviour is why I get so...well, let's call a spade a spade and say 'vitriolically upset' by that kind of willful ignorance.

Thanks for the link too, informative and mortifying to read.

...

Well, to be fair, I think that's generally an uncontroversial opinion you have there.

I dunno. The amount of misinformation and false equivalencies and just plain stupid opinions about various facets of social and cultural norms seems pretty rampant to my eyes. However, I acquiesce that it is likely just what I find myself gravitating to, so YMMV.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I was mainly using the phrase in terms of myself. But I agree that it seems many who are unwilling to see the privilege they have are very well versed in consciously avoiding dealing with it. However, that behaviour is why I get so...well, let's call a spade a spade and say 'vitriolically upset' by that kind of willful ignorance.

I know the feeling.

Thanks for the link too, I informative and mortifying to read.

I found it via Shakesville

http://www.shakesville.com/

Which I'd srrongly recommend looking at, especially the stuff in the Feminism 101 section, though there's a lot to get through.

 

[1Life0Continues]

I found it via Shakesville

http://www.shakesville.com/

Which I'd srrongly recommend looking at, especially the stuff in the Feminism 101 section, though there's a lot to get through.

Bookmarked. Thanks!

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

What kind of pagan is your wife?

 

[PsychicTaco115]

Well, good luck with that

I'm a supporter of all that jazz but I try to keep it to myself because... I dunno, I prefer to keep things light-hearted on here

So here's a song for learning about privilege (I think)

 

[Ishigami]

Stopped reading at feminism...

To freely quote the most influential feminist of my country about the very first appointed male?s representative* of Switzerland: ?? well at least he has the looks??

Feminism will fix nothing in an industrialized nation.

GL & HF.

*Mind you having women?s representatives is common

 

[PsychicTaco115]

Feminism will fix nothing in an industrialized nation.

...wat?

Could you explain that a little more pls?

 

[DEAD34345]

Believing in gender equality and trying to work towards that ideal is good (as should be obvious to any half-decent human being, really), but you might want to be careful exactly how you do that. To me, (and it's entirely possible I'm wrong about this) it seems like you have exactly the wrong attitude to improve the situation.

Personally, I think "Why I Fight" is a terrible way to phrase it to begin with, you generally don't create social change and educate people by "fighting" them. It's not a battle between good and evil, and treating it as such just makes people become defensive and entrench themselves in their beliefs. Good ideals simply aren't enough to have a positive impact, and it's far too common to see people whose hearts really are in the right place damaging their own cause rather than helping it.

I would never tell you to stop trying to reduce these injustices, but please be very careful to always consider whether that's what you're actually doing, rather than unintentionally making people even more resistant to progress and equality. It's very easy to do.

 

[omega 616]

While agree, you will spend all your time headbutting a concrete wall. I think games are treat women like total crap, can a girl get a decent set of clothes? Look at one of the biggest offenders, dragon's crown got (on average) an 80.

Not going after games? What about women who work as "exotic dancers" what about just women who work at places like hooters? Aren't they harming woman's empowerment? Or are they empowering women by taking advantage of men's libido?

Magazines that are aimed at women highlight flaws in celebs and are all about getting the right clothes, the right make up and the right accessories, which all create body image issues in girls and women. Even if they aren't working as a stripper or at hooters, they all like to look sexy ... low cut tops, tights have been the fashion for years now, all figure hugging stuff. I am not saying they do it for men or attention 'cos I have heard a lot of women say "it's like a mask and when they are wearing the mask, they feel confident".

You can only help people who want to be helped and you're just one guy, if you were a Bill Gates then you could make a difference but I highly doubt you have a bank account that big. (even Bill Gates is having trouble getting rid of polio).

I am all for women getting on par with men but you're going to have to change not only men's minds but women's.

 

[1Life0Continues]

Believing in gender equality and trying to work towards that ideal is good (as should be obvious to any half-decent human being, really), but you might want to be careful exactly how you do that. To me, (and it's entirely possible I'm wrong about this) it seems like you have exactly the wrong attitude to improve the situation.

Personally, I think "Why I Fight" is a terrible way to phrase it to begin with, you generally don't create social change and educate people by "fighting" them. It's not a battle between good and evil, and treating it as such just makes people become defensive and entrench themselves in their beliefs. Good ideals simply aren't enough to have a positive impact, and it's far too common to see people whose hearts really are in the right place damaging their own cause rather than helping it.

I would never tell you to stop trying to reduce these injustices, but please be very careful to always consider whether that's what you're actually doing, rather than unintentionally making people even more resistant to progress and equality. It's very easy to do.

You have a point, and ordinarily I would agree with you. However, in this case, this topic is almost never discussed civilly because when the very idea of feminist ideals is mentioned, the backlash is immediate, vocal and vitriolic. The detractors don't start off open to ideas, they are already closed off and kneejerking furiously about fictionalised bogeymen they've created in their own minds. This happens all too often, so that rational and reasonable discussion is impossible from the get go.

So in this case, I maintain the usage of the word 'fight' because it seems to be the only word that makes sense. Now, granted you make a good case for general discussion, and within a proper, rational and sensible discussion that's always the best course of action; but as I said, that isn't where it begins most times.

Thank you for the response though, it has given me food for thought for the future.

 

[1Life0Continues]

While agree, you will spend all your time headbutting a concrete wall. I think games are treat women like total crap, can a girl get a decent set of clothes? Look at one of the biggest offenders, dragon's crown got (on average) an 80.

Not going after games? What about women who work as "exotic dancers" what about just women who work at places like hooters? Aren't they harming woman's empowerment? Or are they empowering women by taking advantage of men's libido?

Magazines that are aimed at women highlight flaws in celebs and are all about getting the right clothes, the right make up and the right accessories, which all create body image issues in girls and women. Even if they aren't working as a stripper or at hooters, they all like to look sexy ... low cut tops, tights have been the fashion for years now, all figure hugging stuff. I am not saying they do it for men or attention 'cos I have heard a lot of women say "it's like a mask and when they are wearing the mask, they feel confident".

You can only help people who want to be helped and you're just one guy, if you were a Bill Gates then you could make a difference but I highly doubt you have a bank account that big. (even Bill Gates is having trouble getting rid of polio).

I am all for women getting on par with men but you're going to have to change not only men's minds but women's.

I either headbutt the wall, or ignore the wall and pretend it doesn't exist. I'd rather do the former because at least I'm doing something. Again, it takes apathy for injustice to prosper, and since the legions of women crying out for the last 4 decades have been ignored, maybe it's time for men like myself to start doing some of the heavy lifting, yeah?

The Hooter's and strip club points...well, there's problems there. I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of those professions, but when it comes to a womans body, if SHE wants to do it, why not? Also, "Taking advantage of men's libido" still frames the actions of women around your sexual needs, not their motivations.

Magazines are a whole different kettle of fish, and there are essays upon essays about the negative impact of magazines on young women and men. But in essence, if society didn't have these dichotomies in place to start with, the magazines wouldn't exist in the first place. They are simply reflections of our culture.

I am aware I am just one guy. But one guy is better than no guys. And the more guys, the more likely change is to occur. At least that's the hope.

Thanks for the response.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

**SNIP**

I respect your stance. I do, really do and I understand. Social Justice is a sore subject for me in a lot of ways, not because of the intentions, I agree that equality is something everyone is entitled to. We shouldn't be seeing race/gender/sexual preference/mental health (btw mental health is a big social issue that gets ignored or pushed to the wayside in favor of other things and thats wrong), people should be judged solely on their actions and not superficial crap. Everyone deserves an equal chance to do things they love without being excluded.
However, sometimes I feel that some folks aren't looking for equality, they're looking for an advantage. A way to one-up the opposition (which shouldn't even be opposition) and get something for being x y or z. Those type of people are the ones who are making it harder for the people who just want a fair shot at whatever to get that fair shot. Equality means everyone is judged solely on their qualifications, their abilities. Equality means that folks should be able to have a representation, not just a token representation in media. But it shouldn't be put in just to fill a quota.
Equality isn't getting advantage or representation just because, its even ground. Everyone should have the opportunity to make the same amount of money at a job, not because of their gender/race/sexual preference. It won't make people who are racist/sexist/homophobes suddenly become tolerant, but it would put things in place to prevent those people from holding others down.
We need to take care when we fight for these things we aren't punishing or pushing down the people who aren't being oppressed or it is just flip-flopping the status quo.
Oh yeah and religious views should factor in here as well, whether you're atheist or believe in something. No one should be oppressed for what they believe religiously.

 

[Bestival]

While I don't have too much to say about the OP, other than 'good for you!' in a non-bitchy, non-sarcastic way, I would like to offer my very own own perspective on the "I'm used to it" bit.

I was born with only 1 ear, and bullied and teased relentlessly about that in my youth. And when friends/family/friends of the family would comment on that, I would reply with; "Don't worry about it, I'm used to it." Which is true. But it is important to note that I would say that with about the same level of emotion as if I would say the same thing about the sun rising in the morning.

Your point stands of course, women shouldn't have to say such a thing about other's perspective of their view of sexuality. But you might be reading more feeling into that statement than is really there.
It's both a happy and a sad fact that humans can get used to just about anything.

 

[1Life0Continues]

**SNIP**

I respect your stance. I do, really do and I understand. Social Justice is a sore subject for me in a lot of ways, not because of the intentions, I agree that equality is something everyone is entitled to. We shouldn't be seeing race/gender/sexual preference/mental health (btw mental health is a big social issue that gets ignored or pushed to the wayside in favor of other things and thats wrong), people should be judged solely on their actions and not superficial crap. Everyone deserves an equal chance to do things they love without being excluded.
However, sometimes I feel that some folks aren't looking for equality, they're looking for an advantage. A way to one-up the opposition (which shouldn't even be opposition) and get something for being x y or z. Those type of people are the ones who are making it harder for the people who just want a fair shot at whatever to get that fair shot. Equality means everyone is judged solely on their qualifications, their abilities. Equality means that folks should be able to have a representation, not just a token representation in media. But it shouldn't be put in just to fill a quota.
Equality isn't getting advantage or representation just because, its even ground. Everyone should have the opportunity to make the same amount of money at a job, not because of their gender/race/sexual preference. It won't make people who are racist/sexist/homophobes suddenly become tolerant, but it would put things in place to prevent those people from holding others down.
We need to take care when we fight for these things we aren't punishing or pushing down the people who aren't being oppressed or it is just flip-flopping the status quo.
Oh yeah and religious views should factor in here as well, whether you're atheist or believe in something. No one should be oppressed for what they believe religiously.

Without wishing to offend, equality isn't something you can apply the libertarian ideal of 'market forces' to, because if that were the case, I am pretty sure market forces would dictate that African-Americans would still be slaves, women wouldn't have the right to vote and a whole slew of other progressions in human rights we've had in the last 100 years. Equality is something you have to work at, often against the status-quo and indeed market forces. Because market forces tend to favour the majority. That's how it works.

Yes, there are variations on BOTH sides that want an advantage, except one of them happens to already have those advantages and seems very very upset that someone else might want them too. And many of them didn't "earn" it at all, they were born into it by virtue of being...well, born.

And the overall aim, once again, is for equality for both men and women. It just happens to use the lens of women because, surprise, women are the disadvantaged ones.

Thanks for the response.

 

[1Life0Continues]

While I don't have too much to say about the OP, other than 'good for you!' in a non-bitchy, non-sarcastic way, I would like to offer my very own own perspective on the "I'm used to it" bit.

I was born with only 1 ear, and bullied and teased relentlessly about that in my youth. And when friends/family/friends of the family would comment on that, I would reply with; "Don't worry about it, I'm used to it." Which is true. But it is important to note that I would say that with about the same level of emotion as if I would say the same thing about the sun rising in the morning.

Your point stands of course, women shouldn't have to say such a thing about other's perspective of their view of sexuality. But you might be reading more feeling into that statement than is really there.
It's both a happy and a sad fact that humans can get used to just about anything.

Okay, let's deal with the false equivalency here. I don't want to single you out, you just happen to have made this post so I'll focus on it. I do this because your response echoes many others by various other people of both sides and it's rather irksome.

A threat of rape or murder to someone that constantly has to fear being raped or murdered is not something anyone should get used to. I don't intend to devalue your experiences, however they are not the same in the slightest, and I don't know if you truly grasp this. If culturally, the entire world was against you because you have one ear, maybe. But the world doesn't bombard you with messages telling you you are lesser and not as deserving of respect as those of us with two ears, and there isn't a culture of two eared people telling you that anything bad that happens to you is simply your fault for...reasons.

I understand the getting use to things concept though. In psychology, it's known as the hedonic treadmill, and it's why people who win the lottery very quickly normalise their fortune. However, that doesn't excuse vile behaviour to 51% of the population simply for existing.

Thanks for the response though. I shall chew on this information some more.