Why I hate valve games. (A rant of sorts)

[Dys]

I actually tend to agree. The engine is dated, and while it is pretty it isn't utilised as effectively as other engines, the physics were ground breaking for their time but are now nothing special, there are no destructible environments or really significant gameplay effects to separate to games from the pack.

In fact, other than TF2 with it's updates (which are used to keep people using the terrible system that is steam), valve haven't done anything remotely interesting for a very long time. I was monumentally disappointed by TF2 because it played exactly like 4 player half life with some different enemies, yet for some reason people ate it up.....Portal was a remake of narbacular drop, and while it was somewhat enjoyable and the story was both well told and interesting, it wasn't anywhere near good enough to warrant to rabid love many fanboys seem to have for it, especially when it is essentially a repackaged version of an old game. The half life serious is, at best, generic[footnote]I don't mean that is an insult, I'm not one of those fancy people who is desperate to be unique just like everyone else.[/footnote]. It truly boggles my mind how it is universally loved when halo is cool to hate. Crysis, a game that's now almost 3 years old, is still now better than most of it's direct competition (yes the aliens in single player were stupid, but it's still a far more fun, engaging game than call of duty or battlefield) yet it's criticised for high system requirements and silly aspects of the single player (the aliens), call me crazy but I seem to remember a tedious vehicle section in half life 2, and a retarded strider hunt in episode 2, every game has its flaws. I'm sick of everyone trying to make valve out as being an exception, they are not.

 

[Commissar Sae]

Guess the OP wants Half Life 3 to look like this.

I wouldn't mind half-life 3 looking like that...

Graphics have never been a big deal for me, as long as the game doesn't look like a horrifying blob of pixels, I'm happy. Gameplay that is actually fun is far more important to me. Hell this is what the game I've wasted countless hours on during the last few months looks like:

 

[Double A]

I'm sure others have already pointed out how awesome Portal is, so I'll just say this.

L4D has different graphics than Portal and Half Life 2. By your reason*ing, this makes it better than both games.

*?

 

[Snotnarok]

And this is why Nintendo games bother me, they make a good game but never have options for simple things, like controls. So you're always stuck with what they force on you. A simple bit of code and you'd be able to customize your game more to your liking. Instead of using a shake or a flail to control a PLATFORMER.

Don't say it's being picky, because all that's being asked is they do what every other company on the planet does, they let the user decide on a control scheme.

But alas they don't, not a big deal but still annoying. :|

Can't you just use the Wii classic controller instead of the Wiimote? I don't have a Wii myself, so excuse my ignorance if I'm completely wrong here.

Very few games let you. Which is what annoys me, but bah oh well.

Seems like a waste to actually manufacture it then.

That thing is mostly for the Virtual Console games, you can play with it in some other 3rd party titles. I just wish Nintendo themselves gave the OPTION for the controllers THEY PROVIDE. Ya know? It's just weird not to, hey Timmy, don't like this controller? Well we have others to spend your money on! Gosh golly I'm gonna run out and get them!

 

[Hazz_11]

oh my god what have you done man flame war incoming

I like valve they make good games im not a fan of half life personally but portal, left 4 dead and team fortress are awesome games and are all just solid all round performers some fans might over hype the games but it still doesnt mean that the games are rubbish because of fan hype

But i think you will see how bad fans can be very shortly

 

[Firetaffer]

Crysis is probably the best game there is from the OP's eyes.

...as long as the game doesn't look like a horrifying blob of pixels, I'm happy...

I like games with all kinds of 'graphics.' I honestly have no idea what people mean when they say a game has good graphics. They all have good graphics, the quake engine still looks good to me. It's just a different kind of graphic style. It's simple, and within it's simplicity you can easily have an engaging twitch-based shooter without getting distracted. Unreal Engine 1 is even better. Not as 'simple' as quake but doesn't push it. Games like Unreal Tournament 3 on the other hand, basically the same gameplay as Unreal Tournament 1 except the graphics are fairly distracting.

So could someone just explain to me what people mean by 'good graphics?'

- Is it something that looks pleasing to the eye (which is from Half-life to Mirrors Edge for me).

- Is it something that looks realistic? (Crysis).

- Is it something is artistically beautiful? (Bioshock's art style, or Half-life 2's art style)

- Or is it something completely different?

Sorry for going off topic but I'm curious .

 

[=HCFS=Discoman]

I do enjoy most valve games, which is a good enough reason to get them.
but hey, i got the orange box for free, it isn't good enough that i would pay full price for it.
but i did find crysis and bioshock, and above all, mass effect much better than valve games. even killing floor is much more fun than any of the l4d games. anyone want to join me in killing zombies with a rocket launcher? how about with grenade launchers? or how about with DUAL .50 pistols and an AK-47 or an M14 EBR?
valve: fun games, but not GREAT games.

 

[=HCFS=Discoman]

Um. Okay. Someone screwed up the quote pyramid. Basically, I think that Valve games are overrated because they don't play very well. I went into some detail in another thread a couple of days ago, but an example of what I mean is in the vehicle sections. Half-Life 2 came out in 2004, but the vehicle sections had already been done better in Halo in 2001. Valve's vehicles control horribly, due to the tank controls they force on the player because they're unwilling to use the much more durable third person vehicle perspective.

I get that staying in first person adds immersion, but I don't want it at the cost of my fun. I went for a second playthrough of HL2 but stopped at Water Hazard, because I literally couldn't be bothered wrestling with that stupid boat.

ummm... the boat wasn't THAT hard to drive...
durable? yes. but part of valve games is the continuous first person perspective which gives more immersion.
besides, HL2 is much less mediocre and generic than Halo.
and look! in HL2 i can carry more than 2 guns!
OMG!OMG!OMG!
look! pistols and rockets and grenades and smg and gravity gun...
practice with the boat more.

 

[Commissar Sae]

Crysis is probably the best game there is from the OP's eyes.

...as long as the game doesn't look like a horrifying blob of pixels, I'm happy...

So could someone just explain to me what people mean by 'good graphics?'

- Is it something that looks pleasing to the eye (which is from Half-life to Mirrors Edge for me).

- Is it something that looks realistic? (Crysis).

- Is it something is artistically beautiful? (Bioshock's art style, or Half-life 2's art style)

- Or is it something completely different?

Sorry for going off topic but I'm curious .

People have different opinions on what makes good graphics, hence the entire shit-storm that is this topic. To me Graphic don't really matter that much, but I guess something that a combination of all the things you mentioned. It also depends on the setting of the game. In some settings (War shooters) realistic graphics tend to make the whole game more immersive. Cartoony or stylistic graphics (TF2, WoW) create a different feel. Theres a measure of personal esthetic preference that effects everyones view on these things. Ultimately, if you're happy with the way a game looks and plays, who cares what others say.

 

[Theron Julius]

So you hate Valve games and think they're making a bad reputation for pc gaming because they don't look like Crysis? Good luck selling that.

Side note: What's with the sudden Valve hate? Is it just the Mac people finally getting a chance to play it and some very vocal people not liking it?

 

[Ontoue]

I like only a few Valve games (but the ones I like; I REALLY like.), but I'm having trouble understanding your problem, probably because the game I've been spending the last few weeks on looks like this:

http://www.roguetemple.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/c3.PNG

 

[squid5580]

Um. Okay. Someone screwed up the quote pyramid. Basically, I think that Valve games are overrated because they don't play very well. I went into some detail in another thread a couple of days ago, but an example of what I mean is in the vehicle sections. Half-Life 2 came out in 2004, but the vehicle sections had already been done better in Halo in 2001. Valve's vehicles control horribly, due to the tank controls they force on the player because they're unwilling to use the much more durable third person vehicle perspective.

Really? I thought the exact opposite.

The vehicles in Half-Life handle very well, I don't see what you're talking about with "tank controls." As for Halo, the vehicles slide waaaay too much for my tastes.

I'm gonna let you in on a little secret, and I don't want you telling everyone but I'm a console gamer. I don't like a keyboard and mouse setup, and I can't afford a good computer. When I say tank controls, I mean that the vehicle does it's acceleration and turning using the one analog stick, which is a pain in the ass to use, especially when I have to navigate ramps and narrow passages. I get that Valve is primarily a PC developer, but that doesn't excuse sloppy control systems on their console ports.

All ports have shitty controls. It's like one of the fundamental laws of the universe or something. Deal with it.

But why should I have to deal with it? If a game is released on multiple platforms, I should be able to play on the platform of my choice, content in the knowledge that the developer has put maximum effort into optimising the game for that platform.

My point was that all developers do this, not only Valve. Yell at Capcom, yell at Rockstar. Yell at everyone - it'd be funny to watch. Yes, this is a travesty that should be fixed, but first lets stop developing RTS for both PC and console, resulting in zero console sales and a shitty watered down RTS for PC.

Oh, I know it's not specific to Valve. I just used Valve examples because this is a Valve thread, and while I'm not on the side of the OP's weak argument, I'm not particularly on the side of everyone else either. It's an interesting, yet lonely position.

You aren't alone. I am right there with you. I wonder how this thread would have turned out if he had used a less popular company for his topic.

 

[Canid117]

Perhaps you haven't noticed that valve has released the graphics updates from HL2:E2 to ALL of the source games?

Your argument is invalidated by this sir, though I say so respectfully.

Still looks ugly. like they say you can put a tux on a pig and it is still a pig

That argument fits Crysis far better than it does Valve Games. The Tux is the graphics engine and the pig is the level and gameplay design. Valve is more along the lines of putting a Tee shirt on Scarlet Johansen. Sometimes what the package is wearing isn't nearly as important as whats underneath.

Well that is a bad analogy too, because the game with no graphics would be better in that regard.

haha I suppose you have a point.

Plenty of people enjoyed text based RPG's back in the day though so it still stands... kind of.

 

[Shadeovblack]

/JRanger




Cookie for reference

 

[Hiphophippo]

Perhaps you haven't noticed that valve has released the graphics updates from HL2:E2 to ALL of the source games?

Your argument is invalidated by this sir, though I say so respectfully.

Still looks ugly. like they say you can put a tux on a pig and it is still a pig

Really? Really? Team Fortress 2 and Left 4 Dead 2 have some of the best graphics around : /

also, did you ever clarify why you don't like them beyond "Bad graphics?"

 

[mrpenguinismyhomeboy]

Like I said I could care less if anyone doesnt share this opinion. Also anyone with half a brain can determine that I obviously don't mean that all games need good graphics to be good games. looks like this is gonna get flamed and lost in cyber space. Farewell.

Translation:

Aww people don't agree with me and I don't know how to defend my terribly shaped arguement. [/buttthurt]

Is that a real html command?

OT: Could Crytek make a game like portal? Probably. But did they? No, they made a game about aliens invading north korea in the ice age. I haven't played crysis, and that description sounds fucking awesome in retrospect, but if Crytek had the intuition to come up with something like portal instead of Crysis, and the intuition to come up with steam, and the intuition to somehow not break the anti monopolies laws while still having the ball breaking contract that is steamworks, then maybe we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[mrpenguinismyhomeboy]

Pretty pictures don't make a game.

They do make a nice movie though. Or coloring book.

 

[mrpenguinismyhomeboy]

[SNIP]

But why should I have to deal with it? If a game is released on multiple platforms, I should be able to play on the platform of my choice, content in the knowledge that the developer has put maximum effort into optimising the game for that platform.

Ok, you have valve there. They aren't very good at porting games, and I agree with you in that developers shouldn't bother releasing ports if they don't work as good as the original. The reason your getting so much opposition is cause everyone else here has played the PC version, and for us PC gamers, the controls worked out quite nicely. That said, most serious PC gamers do a fair bit of tinkering with the settings before actually playing the game (I don't cause I don't notice any real difference) and that allows the user to further optimize it to their own tastes, meaning the developers have to do even less work with getting the right default settings. I don't know how much freedom they give you to reassign controls on consoles, but I imagine it can't be nearly as much as there are on PC games. That's probably one of the reasons the games would frustrate you, and I can understand that.

I'm sorry if I sound a little condescending, I don't mean to.

 

[Anezay]

Graphics only need to be good enough to keep immersion. Source is more than capable of that.