Why I Think The PSVitaTV is a bad Idea for Sony:

[Mr.Mattress]

If you missed the news a few days ago, then I'll bring you to speed: On the Same Day Sony announced the PS Vita Slim, they announced The PSVitaTV [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/127573-PS-Vita-TV-Is-a-Game-Boy-Player-For-The-Vita], a Home Console Version of the PSVita that is also a Streaming Box. Now, this Forum is definitely a big fan of Sony, and although I never really enjoyed Playstation Consoles, I never thought any of them were bad ideas, until the PS Vita came out (I don't think the PS4 is a bad idea). Now I think they're making another bad Idea when it comes to Consoles. I believe that the PSVitaTV will be a flop, and that Sony might want to reconsider actually making it. You may ask me "Why?" Well, here are my reasons why:

1) It's competing against Home Consoles
This is a huge complaint I have with it: Releasing the PSVitaTV means they are competing against other Home Consoles; The WiiU, the PS4 and XBone specifically. The fact that they're competing against these Home Consoles will end up in disaster with them, mainly because it's just a Vita for the home, and the Vita doesn't have that many good games on it to make people wanna buy it.

2) It's competing against Sony Home Consoles
Not only are they competing with other Home Consoles, but they are competing with their own brother console: The PS4. This will mean Sony will have two home consoles on the Market, which could potentially confuse customers (Just like the Wii and WiiU are confused all the time). This will just end up hurting Sony by having 2 Home consoles on the Market at the same time from the same Generation (3 if you want to count the PS3 from the Previous one).

3) It's Sony's way of leaving the Handheld Market
Let's face it, Sony's handheld division isn't helping Sony in any way when it comes to Video Games. Yes, the PSP was eventually profitable, but in the face of the DS, and with the Current Vita conundrum, they have failed in the Handheld Market. While I prefer that Sony would leave the Handheld Market, I don't want them to do it like this, because this will only end up hurting them.

4) "But Since the PS4 won't be out in Japan until February, this will hold them over!" Sorry, Japan already has Vitas
This was a common thing I heard when I was talking in the original thread; that since the PS4 won't be released in Japan until February of next year, that the PSVitaTV will be meant for the Japanese. Well, there's 2 things wrong with that Assumption; One is that the Japanese already own Vitas, which is actually doing okay in Japan (Though overall it's doing Poorly). Two is that Home Consoles aren't really strong in Japan anymore. So A Vita Console won't work well in Japan at all.

5) This is the First Time a Handheld has gone Home Console
Yep, this is indeed the Very first time a Handheld Console has gone Home Console. No other handheld has ever done this. You might be thinking "What about Super Gameboy? Gameboy Packs on N64? Gameboy Advance links? PSVita to PS4 Connectivity?" Those aren't Home Consoles though, those have all been peripherals or Online Connectivity and Streaming. This is a Separate Console that requires nothing but itself and a PS3 controller. And the odds are in favor of this thing not to succeed.

6) "Well, the PSVitaTV is a Streaming Box, not a Home Console!" But it is a Home Console
This is an argument I've been having with someone on a different forum, and I'm here to tell everyone that indeed, the PSVitaTV is both a Streaming Box and a Home Console. It's a Home Console because you can play Video Games on it, and it's one of the main focuses of it. Just as Gaming PC's are a form of Gaming Console and Computer, so too is the PSVitaTV a Streaming Box and a Gaming Console.

7) Touching Is Bad (Apparently)
Another Complaint I've been seeing that wasn't my own, but Is true: The PSVitaTV only allows PS3 controllers to work with it. PS3 Controllers don't have Touch Screens, but the regular PSVita does. Therefor, any game that requires Touching will not work properly on the PSVitaTV, making it inferior to the PSVita.

8) "People that originally didn't want a Vita will want it now!" No they won't
Just because it can now Stream TV, Netflix, Hulu and all sorts of other things doesn't mean that people will want the stupid thing. The Original Vita can pretty much do all of that, and yet it hasn't been selling well (Even in Japan). People aren't going to buy the Vita just because it can do that, and especially since there are alternatives to the PSVitaTV.

9) "This is the best way to get into the Stream Box Market for Sony!" Too Little, Too Late I'm afraid
Sony could have entered the Streaming Box Market anytime they wanted to, but they waited, and others came in and conquered it. What Sony has to offer to make their Stream Box appealing (PSVita games) isn't appealing.

10) This cheapens the Playstation Brand
My last, and Biggest Complaint I have with the PSVitaTV is that this will do more damage to the Playstation Brand then that Playstation All-Stars game on Iphones did. By Sony making their Stream Box in the Playstation Brand, it cheapens their originally only Console Brand. It would be like Sony making Playstation brand Dishwashers, or Microsoft making XBox brand Laptops. Brand Cheapening has rarely ever worked, and I'm inclined to believe that this will only hurt Sony and the Playstation Brand.

So, those are my thoughts. What are your thoughts on the PSVitaTV? Do you think it's a good idea or a bad idea? Do you agree with any of my points?

 

[Casual Shinji]

I don't know...

PSVitaTV by name as well as by looks seems easily distinguishable from PS3 and PS4. It looks like a small little harddrive and is only a 100 bucks. I don't think there'll be that much confusion, except maybe for the people who might want to buy a actual Vita, which is no one anyway.

As long as Sony isn't sinking piles of money into it, this actually looks like an interesting experiment. At least it shows that Sony is aware that the Vita as is doesn't seem to be working.

 

[Andy Shandy]

It's not competing against the Xbox One and PS4 (in fact, one of its features compliments the PS4), it's competing against the Apple TV thing and the OUYA. I haven't seen any proof that Sony are leaving, or considering leaving, the handheld market and it clearly has some potential to do well in Japan, considering that it is already sold out on Amazon Japan [http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/09/10/playstation-vita-tv-already-sold-out-on-amazon-japan/]

Honestly, I think you're wrong. At the price point it is at, it might very well be perfect for what it is trying to do.

 

[Mutant1988]

1: Within the suggested price range, the PS Vita TV is not competing with the other two big console manufacturers (Directly). What it does compete with directly is android based (Or otherwise original budget priced) consoles , such as the Ouya. But rather than a response to the emergence of budget consoles like that (Who from what I've read don't offer much to compete with), I believe Sony's plan is somewhat similar to Nintendo handled the Wii, going against the far more technologically advanced PS3 and Xbox 360. It's cheap to make, cheap to buy and gives customers what they want (Fun games and/or a cheap TV box).

2: How do you compete with yourself? If one product sell while the other does not, you shift focus to increase sales of the under-performing product or simply end production of the less profitable product. Either way, you make a profit or at least break even (Depending on production cost and numbers, of course. And we have no way of knowing those figures at this moment). Consumer confusion is easily avoided by simply stating that this device plays Vita games for half the price of a Vita, at the expense of portability (There's probably a market for that) and function as a TV box (There's a market for that).

3: If they intended to leave the handheld market, they wouldn't have released a new version of the Vita. Nor, I'd argue, would they release a system to play games that will no longer be produced. If this is indicative of a desire of theirs to leave the market, their actual departure will not be within the near future.

4: It's a Vita at half the price minus portability and extremely compact. I think those that don't own the Vita because of the price might now consider the PS Vita TV and they can also easily fit it into their current entertainment space (From my understanding, consoles have fallen out of favour partly because Japanese homes don't have room for them).

5: This is just a statement and not an argument. The point of the PS Vita TV is not to sell Vita's, but to sell PS Vita TV. Having it require a Vita to function would needlessly limit the market for it.

6: Again, just a statement - Not an argument.

7: A limit of current technology that some might excuse considering the much lower price. It is very likely though that the Dual Shock 4 will allow the device to support playing touch screen games.

8: Find me an alternative as cheap. Then find me one those that can play Vita games. The market is people that want a cheap TV box, a TV Box and Vita games or just Vita games.

9: Please provide some proof of your claims that Sony's efforts are "Too little too late" and please enlighten us as to who has "conquered" the market for TV streaming.

10: A completely asinine argument. It plays Playstation Vita games. So it bears the Playstation brand. It's a descriptive title, not a honour title.

 

[Casual Shinji]

The lack of a touchscreen means it won't be able to play the most notable Vita exclusives like Uncharted, Gravity Daze or Killzone Mercenaries. All those games decided to implement touchscreen controls in order to leverage their positions as Vita exclusives. Even multiplatform games like Rayman Legends will be unplayable without the touchscreen.

I'm sure they can patch many of those up. I mean, if Rayman Legends works on the PS3 and 360, I'm sure they'll be able to make it run on the VitaTV.

And it'll also give you access to the PSP cataloge. So the more I hear about this thing, more I'm getting interested.

In a nutshell it's basically a Vita for 100 bucks.

 

[sneakypenguin]

2nd point is dumb it complements the ps4 awesomely. Its like having a 2nd ps4 you never have to move. Your ps4 is in the living room and you wanna play killzone while family watches tv just use the tv in your room/den/whatever.

That said i think its awesome, a streaming box thats only 25ish bucks more than a roku that plays most vita games, my ps4 games. Sounds like a deal to me.

 

[Roxas1359]

But aren't a large number of PSP games already available over PSN? This is where I'm confused. The way I hear it, all the non-Vita PS games will be available through PSN, which the PS3 already has full access to. If the Vita TV has a UMD slot, or the Vita has access to a digital library of PSP games then I'll admit I'm wrong, but that's not the impression I've got so far.

I'm going to assume that you don't actually own a PS3 or if you do, have never been on PSN then.
Yes you have access to the PS Vita and PSP library on PSN, but you can't actually play those games on your PS3, only have then downloaded to your dashboard, and then you connect your PSP or Vita to the PS3 and it transfers it to your handheld/handhelds.
This is effectively letting you play PSP games with a PS3 controller and not requiring an actual PSP which is good.

Also, you have given me the urge to develop a UMD slot for this device if it doesn't have one...because I wanna play imports with a PS3 controller.

 

[Casual Shinji]

It depends. Some of the Vita exclusives depend pretty heavily on the touchscreen. KZ Mercenaries, for instance, has extra buttons and functions laid out on the touchscreen. That's not something you can easily emulate on a Dualshock 3. Sony themselves have said that Vita games that require touchscreen inputs won't necessarily work on the thing, which would suggest reworking their already-released games isn't high on their priority list right now.

Something like that shouldn't be too hard to shift to one of the triggers, I think. If the game in question isn't completely depended on the touchscreen or gyro thing, they can probably make it work. And apparently it'll be compatible with the PS4 controller which could just as well fix the touchscreen issue.

As for third-parties, why would most of them make the effort to patch their games when the Vita hasn't sold all that well to begin with? If they designed their game to work specifically with the touchscreen, then that means reworking the controls for a game that likely wasn't all that succesful. How many companies are going to be willing to do that sort of reworking for a game that already came out months or even years ago?

I don't think they will be asking third parties to patch that up, Sony will most likely have their own little dedicated team of techies to fix it up.

But aren't a large number of PSP games already available over PSN? This is where I'm confused. The way I hear it, all the non-Vita PS games will be available through PSN, which the PS3 already has full access to. If the Vita TV has a UMD slot, or the Vita has access to a digital library of PSP games then I'll admit I'm wrong, but that's not the impression I've got so far.

Yeah, but you can't play those on your PS3 (not to my knowledge anyway), you can only buy them via your PS3. You still need a PSP to actually play them. But now you can circumvent both the PSP and the Vita for only 100 bucks.

Plus memory cards. You're still going to pay for those, and the huge fees that come with them.

Seriously, if Sony really wants to turn this around, they need to slash the price of memory cards now. It's ridiculous that they've done so much else to try and turn the Vita round, but they still haven't thought to drop the price of memory cards to an acceptable level.

It's still a cheaper purchase.

I'm not a fan of Sony's handhelds at all. I think they should stick with what they know best: Home consoles. And this looks like a step in the right direction

 

[TrevHead]

The Vita TV appeals to me, I have a PSP no Vita/PS3 & don't plan on buying a PS4 for another 2-3 years and am not a lover of playing most action games on handhelds, which increasingly more Japanese devs are moving to rather than home consoles.

One such genre is the shmup and rail shooter genre, while the 3DS rather than the Vita is actually getting those games, It does give traditional STGs devs an avenue to please both handheld and big screen gamers, imo it will be a tempting platform for CAVE now they seem to be in financial trouble and moving away from the Arcades and the 360 is on the way out.

The lack of a touch screen sucks, although I wonder if some limited functionality could have been used with the use of the analog buttons used to operate a pointer. (the vita's mini analogs don't have buttons on them right?)

I'ld buy the system just to play Wipeout, Lumines & Persona 4 along with 2D side scrollers like Dragons Crown.

As for how well it'll do? I've no idea for Japan, but more ppl in the west will bite, especially those like me wanting to play Vita games on the TV with a pad. Given how lagging behind the 3DS the Vita is, a larger userbase is only a good thing.

 

[Soxafloppin]

I might get one.

I don't have a Vita and its cheaper.....thats my reasoning entirely.

 

[Korten12]

It's already sold out on Amazon JP, which is good. So I doubt it will be a flop, it's price is very appealing.

 

[Snotnarok]

It's a step in the right direction, a budget console where you can get some really pretty visuals on a good controller and have access to the PSN? You realize you have access to PSP, PSOne, PSV games on one tiny device now right? That's some good good games to be had there, then it acts as a media device on top of it? Sounds like a decent deal considering the power of the Vita and what you can do with it, and what Sony can do with it and expanding the Vita.

I have a Vita, I love it, I'd love if there was a TV out but that is a neat idea they have going in it's own right.
Now...can we see those memory cards drop to something sane? $70 for 32gb vs a 32gb miniSD card at $20

 

[Blitsie]

I really hope this doesn't end up completely undermining the Vita, its a fantastic portable device that really deserves some success for a change. Just look at the graphics in Killzone, imagine if Rockstar could jump in and do a proper portable GTA or if Sucker Punch could develop a unique superhero game for it.

There's insane potential there, letting it go to waste would truly suck.

 

[GoaThief]

I'm pretty much sold on this little bad boy, it absolutely destroys it's in-class competitor the Ouya.

I think you're quite far off base OP, and might well be in for a little surprise.

 

[Roxas1359]

I have a Vita, I love it, I'd love if there was a TV out but that is a neat idea they have going in it's own right.
Now...can we see those memory cards drop to something sane? $70 for 32gb vs a 32gb miniSD card at $20

I think sooner or later someone out there will figure out how to make an adapter for it, just like what happened with the PSP, at least I hope so, because those Memory Cards are the only thing truly holding me back.

 

[Lightknight]

1. Not sure why this and number 2 need to be different points. Why would Sony care if it edges out WiiU or the XBO? I'm pretty sure the only thing it cares about is its own stuff.

2. Sony would love to sell more $100-140 devices. They would love for it to compete well enough to cannibalize some of the other consoles. Offering this product not only makes purchasing a ps4 more attractive due to their compatibility but also sells software that gives Sony a higher profit margin. See, the product also allows streaming ps4 to any TV in the house. That makes this a cheap way to extend the functionality of your ps4 while also broadening the market for PS Vita games.

3. What? How is this leaving the handheld market? This broadens the market for Vita Software developers because you can store Vita games on this and play them in say, a hotel room or anywhere else you're traveling. But this doesn't allow you to play games without a TV. Also, note that several vita games won't be compatible with it. I know people haven't said this yet but the controller hardly has touch screen compatibility. If anything else, this makes the handheld division of Sony more viable by making it more profitable. I don't own a Vita because I'm secretely hoping I can play it on TV. I own a Vita because I can take it on planes and it holds all forms of media including games. So I can watch a movie or play custom-made games for it.

4. The ps4 gives you access to top-tier ps4 games. You do not have access to these ps4 games if you do not own a ps4.

5. Not a point. There also isn't a transfer from handheld to home console. Both are being sold simultaneously. It'd be as if psp or vita games started being sold on the ps3. That doesn't make the Vita or PSP cease to exist.

6. Yes and no. It's a highly portable home console that you can take with you and plug into any TV easily. But it isn't a next-gen home console. Think of a AAA title that's going to be available on the ps4. This little box can't magically process them. It can only play Vita games on its own and probably ones that don't utilize the touch interface. This is also software that individuals have to pay full price for. No one loses.

7. Yep, it is inferior to the Vita. Hence it being $100 cheaper and not portable. It isn't meant to compete with the Vita directly. It is meant to be an alternative for people who want somethings but don't need others. This is basically a ROKU that can stream your PS4 to any room of your house and play vita games. That's a steal for $100.

8. By all means, show us a device that can stream all those sources to any TV of the house you plug it into in and stream a next gen console to any device you have (possibly able to stream the ps3 as well). One that is capable of storing media on its own, playing video games custom made for it that you can take with you anywhere you're going to plug into TVs there. Then show me that device at something near $100. This is silly. It's a gamer's perfect roku, especially if they have a ps4 that doesn't cut into Vita sales necessarily because it isn't a handheld.

9. What do you mean? Something like 80 million people have a streaming box that also plays Sony games. It's called a ps3 and media streaming is my primary use for it. This is a perfect entry to the low-cost streaming market.

10. Cheapens the brand? This is a really cheap device that not only gets Sony a foothold into homes that it otherwise wouldn't have but it likely has its storefront right there when you access the device. The amount of software sales on this device for homes that otherwise wouldn't have purchased a Vita could be significant.

I think you would have been better off here with 5 talking points instead of stretching it out to 10.

 

[GoaThief]

Forgot to add something too regarding touch screen compatibility.

The PS4 controller has a touch pad on it, does it not? I would imagine implementing it into the Vita TV would not be the hardest thing in the world.