Why Mass Effect 2?

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TheKramers

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May 26, 2011
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I started playing Mass Effect 2 because everyone said it was amazing. And don't get me wrong, it's not a bad game, but its certainly not an amazing game either. I'll compare this game to KOTOR for the original Xbox, another game made by Bioware, this is nearly identical to Mass Effect yet in my opinion, superior in every way (except graphics and hardware related things, ov course). I'll break my analysis into sections.

Your Allies:
In KOTOR I felt completely attached to every single one ov my allies, the quests related to each one were many, their personalities were always developing as the web of events that is their past became clear to me. Each person had a completely individual personality that you knew like they were your best friend, they were always having new conversations with you and telling you new things and commenting on what was going on before them and sometimes even discussing moral choices that you are presented with. In Mass Effect 2 this is almost absent, I feel almost no connection to the characters, I know almost nothing about anyone even though I'm halfway through the game. On missions and when free roaming around cities they just follow you and almost never say anything except occasionally you can get one ov them to comment on something nearby. When you talk to them they never have anything new to say except for when they present you with their loyalty mission. And sure, their loyalty mission tells you a little bit about their past, but learning the past of a person you feel no connection to is pointless. The only people I feel any connections to are Joker, Ashley, and Talia, because the first Mass Effect at least had some character development.

Character Customization:
In any RPG, your characters appearance should be a reflection of your own personality as well as your achievements in the game and your choice of weapons and skills should reflect your prefences in gameplay styles. In KOTOR, this really stood out, my character really felt like it was mine. However, In Mass Effect 2 my character felt slightly customized, but I didn't feel attached to my character like one playing an RPG should. As far as skills and attributes go, there should be many more skills than its possible for your character to have, that way you choose the ones you like the most and you would approach combat differently depending on what skills your character has. The same thing applies to attributes, you choose to develop attributes that will enhance the effectiveness ov your various skills, further customizing your character. KOTOR did this flawlessly. It had attributes that heavily affected your strengths and weaknesses, customizing your character, and effecting the skills you chose. The skills (called feats) were numerous, each with very individual and powerful effects. Every skill you chose greatly influenced the way you had to play your character in order to win fights. Then you got force powers, which were awesome, in addition to your feats, so your character was even further customized to yourself and by the time you got to the games final battle, you were playing with a character that really felt like it was yours, this character was everything youve worked for and built from the ground up to defeat the greatest enemy in the game. However, in Mass Effect 2, this was also almost completely non-existent. You chose from one of 6 classes and that class only had a few skills to choose from making your and the skills you choose don't even influence the way you approach a combat situation much if even at all. Mass Effect 2 has no attributes and a very limited selection of skills.
Now let's talk about clothes and other non-weapon equipment. Your equipment should be something that both reflects your personality and something that you are proud of usually because it was difficult to obtain or because it greatly enhances your characters abilities. In Mass Effect 2 almost none of that is present. Your armor may slightly reflect your personality simply in the colors you chose for it, but you don't feel pride in your armor since you did nothing to obtain it. I'm almost certain that everyone playing ME2 gets access to all the same armor at all the same times during the game as everyone else and they didn't even really have to do anything to get it. Plus, no matter what armor you put on, it makes almost no difference in combat. Not to mention that none of the armor is very individualistic; if you take off one shoulder piece and put on a different one, no one would know the difference. However, in KOTOR every single piece of equipment you had on was not only a reflection of your personality, but it also effected your characters performance in combat situations, and was something you were proud of owning. Simply in KOTOR, your clothes mattered, in ME2, they don't, that may not sound like much, but don't forget that these are RPGs, an RPG without a character customized to yourself is like an FPS without any weapons.
Next is your choice of weapon. Weapons are like clothes in that they should be customized to fit your personality while also being something you take pride in, but also, your weapon should be something that is customized to support your style of play. For example, in KOTOR, your weapon, beit you lightsaber or the force is heavily customized. your lightsaber is equipped with crystals that not only control the color of the lightsaber but also control its stats and effects on opponents, and for the force you have a choice to develop only but a few force powers. If you choose to use the force as your primary method of attack, the force powers you choose will define the way you approach every battle. This makes your weapon really feel like it's yours because youre the one who chose it and developed it to be your primary weapon. However in Masf Effect 2, you get almost no choice of weapon at all. It's the same story as it was with the armor, except with the weapons you can't even pick what color they are. In ME2, the weapon in no way feels customized to yourself at all.

Combat:
Combat is the base of an RPG and ties in with all the other aspects of the game. Combat in an RPG should be very strategic in the way you approach it based on the way you have developed your character and involve many different forms of attack, and when you defeat an opponent you should feel a sense of gratitude and be rewarded for your victory. In Mass Effect 2, I just didn't find the combat fun at all. The fighting took no strategy at all, just get behing something and shoot for the head until everyone's dead and that didn't change no matter how I built my soldier or no matter what weapon I was using. (except the heavy weapons, but you save those for big guys) The only thing that would change is if I chose a different class, then maybe the skills would matter more, but they still wouldn't feel customized at all because of the limited selection. Also, the only available methods ov attack are your weapon and your skills; that's it. And after I defeat an opponent that's it, I don't feel satisfaction from having bested him, even on harder difficulties I can't glean anything from beating a difficult opponent because I gain absolutely nothing from it, he doesn't drop anything except maybe a thermal clip and I get no experience, so what was the point? KOTOR is a completely different story, I don't even feel it's necessary to compare ME2 to KOTORs combat system

There's so unbelievably many more small things that KOTOR did better than ME2, I only talked about the main points ov the game. But as amazing ov a game as KOTOR was, ME2 got way more recognition and I just don't understand it. I want the Escapists feedback.
 

Joccaren

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Mar 29, 2011
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Well, what you are assuming for a lot of this is that the game is an RPG. It is not. It is a shooter with RPG elements, RPG elements that have been greatly reduced since the original. Number 1 focused more on the RPG elements, but number 2 focuses mostly on the Shooter side. Number three looks as though it will be a mixture of both, thank god.

The reason many people hailed it as amazing is that RPGs, at least the old style, are falling mostly out of favour today. Many people preferred the more shooter styled gameplay, and found that the RPG aspects added to the experience. The probably also liked the fact that it had a good story for a shooter game. For Bioware, the writing, character development and overall plot was weak, but when you compare it to CoD like games, the writing is amazing. Some people would have thought that the RPG parts of number 1 held it back, as they just wanted to have a shooter experience, not have to worry about all these stats, and all these abilities, so Bioware streamlined it, maybe a bit too much, but as a game it still works. Sorry to bring this up again, but this is the problem that I had with Dragon Age 2. It turned from a style that was RPG, despite Bioware calling it an Action Adventure RPG, and turned it into a mostly hack'n'slash style gameplay, with weaker writing than ME2. With ME, it kinda worked as the combat was always shooter, streamlining improved the game to an extent, but let it fall in some aspects for some fans. Dragon Age combat went from tactical RPG, to button mash. Now, back to Mass Effect: They went a bit too far with the streamlining IMO, but some of the changes they made were for the better. I liked the new armour system (both the combat 3/4 types of armour, and the character armour customisation), I didn't mind the new weapon system (I would have preferred having to collect weapons, and have them all be close to equal strength for that tier, not be dropped every three seconds, and specialise in something [as opposed to ME 1 where weapons dropped every three seconds, were nowhere near equal in strength or specialised as there would always be one weapon that would be better in every aspect for that tier, and sometimes the next]), I liked the idea of upgrading weapons and the ship, and would like to see that merged with the weapon add-ons, and I liked the abilities specialising at final rank. What I did not like was the lack of any information on any weapon, the low number of skills, the shared skill cooldown and the mineral gathering.

The reason for the less tactical combat: It was streamlined to appeal more to shooter fans.
The reason for Less character customisation: It was streamlined to appeal more to shooter fans
The reason for the lack of character depth: Hopefully the short development time. Hopefully.

Now, this should hopefully clear a few things up. Bioware currently looks to be on the way to making some absolutely AWESOME games; ME3 and TOR, both seemingly having more depth AND RPG elements than ME2 and DA2, and hopefully they can pull them off.
 

Revolutionary

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May 30, 2009
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Way Way TL:DR, I love mass effect 2, I like the first one better I can see why others wouldn't like it, Also you need more paragraphs.
 

Kahunaburger

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People like ME:2 because the gameplay is very good, the dialogue (content and direction) is very good, and the episodic stories are very good.

And I personally would advise you to play on a harder difficulty using a non-Soldier class. Soldier was primarily designed to fit a shooter playstyle, and is therefore the least RPG-ish of the classes. Something like Engineer or Vanguard will give you a more tactical experience, as will micromanaging squad tactics, which is almost necessary on higher difficulties.
 

NightlyNews

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I suggest breaking up your tl;dr into separate ideas and paragraphs.

Until then your post is like a gigantic whale that I don't want to attempt to penetrate. They have to breath out of that hole you know.
 

Netrigan

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I liked ME2 more but I think both of them are fairly shallow shooters. ME1's depth is really all about inventory and levelling, but every encounter plays out pretty much the same: walk through door, take cover, fight. ME2 let's you spread out a bit since the levels are bigger. Both are corridor shooters at their core. ME2 is more of a spectacle shooter ala Modern Warfare or Gears Of War. ME3 looks to be more of the same with impressive set pieces.

I would love to the depth of play of a Deus Ex, Far Cry, or Crysis in the mix. Larger, more open-world maps that feature numerous paths to objectives and the ability to recon enemy positions before launching an assault.
 

Kermi

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Mass Effect 1 > Mass Effect 2. Mass Effect 2 was a much less interesting game but had streamlined gameplay.

ME2 is really only great riding on the back of ME1.
 

Thanatos5150

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Apr 20, 2009
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KOTOR was built piggybacking off the d20 system, so all the stats and rules were already there from the start. Bioware did quite literally none of that.
 

TheKramers

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May 26, 2011
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After reading all your comments I now realise that the reason for all my complaints was that Bioware was aiming to make more ov a shooter than an RPG, and I just think that's downright rediculous. This is an open world game where you level your character, develop skills to use in combat through leveling, travel in a small group of allies that also level up and share in your experiences, and solve quests taken from a multitude ov source. I don't know about you but that just sounds a hell ov a lot like an RPG to me. I think every single aspect ov the game would've been better if it played more like an RPG and less like a run and gun shooter.

Joccaren said:
Well, what you are assuming for a lot of this is that the game is an RPG. It is not. It is a shooter with RPG elements, RPG elements that have been greatly reduced since the original. Number 1 focused more on the RPG elements, but number 2 focuses mostly on the Shooter side. Number three looks as though it will be a mixture of both, thank god.

The reason many people hailed it as amazing is that RPGs, at least the old style, are falling mostly out of favour today. Many people preferred the more shooter styled gameplay, and found that the RPG aspects added to the experience. The probably also liked the fact that it had a good story for a shooter game. For Bioware, the writing, character development and overall plot was weak, but when you compare it to CoD like games, the writing is amazing. Some people would have thought that the RPG parts of number 1 held it back, as they just wanted to have a shooter experience, not have to worry about all these stats, and all these abilities, so Bioware streamlined it, maybe a bit too much, but as a game it still works. Sorry to bring this up again, but this is the problem that I had with Dragon Age 2. It turned from a style that was RPG, despite Bioware calling it an Action Adventure RPG, and turned it into a mostly hack'n'slash style gameplay, with weaker writing than ME2. With ME, it kinda worked as the combat was always shooter, streamlining improved the game to an extent, but let it fall in some aspects for some fans. Dragon Age combat went from tactical RPG, to button mash. Now, back to Mass Effect: They went a bit too far with the streamlining IMO, but some of the changes they made were for the better. I liked the new armour system (both the combat 3/4 types of armour, and the character armour customisation), I didn't mind the new weapon system (I would have preferred having to collect weapons, and have them all be close to equal strength for that tier, not be dropped every three seconds, and specialise in something [as opposed to ME 1 where weapons dropped every three seconds, were nowhere near equal in strength or specialised as there would always be one weapon that would be better in every aspect for that tier, and sometimes the next]), I liked the idea of upgrading weapons and the ship, and would like to see that merged with the weapon add-ons, and I liked the abilities specialising at final rank. What I did not like was the lack of any information on any weapon, the low number of skills, the shared skill cooldown and the mineral gathering.

The reason for the less tactical combat: It was streamlined to appeal more to shooter fans.
The reason for Less character customisation: It was streamlined to appeal more to shooter fans
The reason for the lack of character depth: Hopefully the short development time. Hopefully.

Now, this should hopefully clear a few things up. Bioware currently looks to be on the way to making some absolutely AWESOME games; ME3 and TOR, both seemingly having more depth AND RPG elements than ME2 and DA2, and hopefully they can pull them off.
Idk, I didn't really like any ov it. I don't feel like writing a long thing explaining why either, I just don't think it was nearly enough like an RPG and to me the game would've been so much more fun and interesting if it was more like an RPG like the first ME was.

Thanatos5150 said:
KOTOR was built piggybacking off the d20 system, so all the stats and rules were already there from the start. Bioware did quite literally none of that.
... so what?
 

DEAD34345

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I love KOTOR but I love Mass Effect even more. I cared far more for the characters in Mass Effect than I did KOTOR, but that's just completely a matter of taste. I think that Mass Effect (especially the second one) took all the best parts from Bioware's classic RPGs (great story, characters, choices etc) and removed almost everything bad.

I found that the clothing and weaponry of KOTOR offered no choice whatsoever, you just wear/wield the thing that is statistically the best every time. The combat in KOTOR also was not fun in my opinion, and I certainly never found it very strategic. Every battle was pretty much determined beforehand by the statistics you picked up. The "choice" of statistics to pick up also made no difference to the game, because in all of the battles you're just going to be auto-attacking the enemy and spamming whatever power or powers you decided to select earlier. Mass Effect's combat may not be revolutionary or strategic, but it's a least mildly entertaining unlike Bioware's earlier RPGs.

The things that made KOTOR truly brilliant in my eyes were the conversation trees, characters, and story. Mass Effect not only does these things just as well, but improves upon them by making a more epic and engrossing story (though KOTOR had the best twist), more likeable characters and fully voiced conversation trees that still manage to maintain the choice from the earlier games.
 

Nimcha

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KOTOR is my favourite game ever, but I think I'm in agreement with the above poster in that I reckon ME is actually the better game (series). But because KOTOR came first and opened my eyes to RPG games it'll have a special place in my heart :)
 

TheKramers

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lunncal said:
I found that the clothing and weaponry of KOTOR offered no choice whatsoever, you just wear/wield the thing that is statistically the best every time. The combat in KOTOR also was not fun in my opinion, and I certainly never found it very strategic. I certainly did. The coordination of my squad members various attacks and skills against different enemies was far more than I ever felt like I had to do in ME. I'll never forget when you crash on that ice planet and get attacked by those three HK droids. I had to employ a lot of of strategy to get through that fight. Every battle was pretty much determined beforehand by the statistics you picked up. The "choice" of statistics to pick up also made no difference to the game, because in all of the battles you're just going to be auto-attacking the enemy and spamming whatever power or powers you decided to select earlier. I completely disagree, I don't think I did that even once. I found the combat very indepth and way more fun than I ever had with ME. Mass Effect's combat may not be revolutionary or strategic, but it's a least mildly entertaining unlike Bioware's earlier RPGs.

The things that made KOTOR truly brilliant in my eyes were the conversation trees, characters, and story. Mass Effect not only does these things just as well, but improves upon them by making a more epic and engrossing story (though KOTOR had the best twist), more likeable characters and fully voiced conversation trees that still manage to maintain the choice from the earlier games.I agree that it's good that Mass Effect had good conversation trees and it's great that they were fully voiced unlike KotOR, but that's the only thing I think is better. I liked the characters in KotOR so much more I still remember all their names their voices and their personality and I haven't played that game in four years. However, I played ME two hours ago and can't remember half my squadmates. Also, I think KotORs story was rediculously better, not KotOR 2's, but definitely the originals.
 

DEAD34345

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TheKramers said:
lunncal said:
I found that the clothing and weaponry of KOTOR offered no choice whatsoever, you just wear/wield the thing that is statistically the best every time. The combat in KOTOR also was not fun in my opinion, and I certainly never found it very strategic. I certainly did. The coordination of my squad members various attacks and skills against different enemies was far more than I ever felt like I had to do in ME. I'll never forget when you crash on that ice planet and get attacked by those three HK droids. I had to employ a lot of of strategy to get through that fight. Every battle was pretty much determined beforehand by the statistics you picked up. The "choice" of statistics to pick up also made no difference to the game, because in all of the battles you're just going to be auto-attacking the enemy and spamming whatever power or powers you decided to select earlier. I completely disagree, I don't think I did that even once. I found the combat very indepth and way more fun than I ever had with ME. Mass Effect's combat may not be revolutionary or strategic, but it's a least mildly entertaining unlike Bioware's earlier RPGs.

The things that made KOTOR truly brilliant in my eyes were the conversation trees, characters, and story. Mass Effect not only does these things just as well, but improves upon them by making a more epic and engrossing story (though KOTOR had the best twist), more likeable characters and fully voiced conversation trees that still manage to maintain the choice from the earlier games.I agree that it's good that Mass Effect had good conversation trees and it's great that they were fully voiced unlike KotOR, but that's the only thing I think is better. I liked the characters in KotOR so much more I still remember all their names their voices and their personality and I haven't played that game in four years. However, I played ME two hours ago and can't remember half my squadmates. Also, I think KotORs story was rediculously better, not KotOR 2's, but definitely the originals.
We'll just have to disagree. I liked the combat and characters far more in Mass Effect, and found no strategy in KOTOR's combat whatsoever. To me the battles were just a chore that had to be gotten through to carry on with the fun stuff. I also don't think the story of KOTOR was all that great either, apart from the twist.
Sith have space-macguffin that lets them win. You must find all 3 pieces of the map to find the space-macguffin and stop them. You find the map pieces. You were the leader of the Sith! Remain good as you have learnt the error of your ways/Turn evil and be a badass again.

Apart from the twist it was fairly standard as far a stories go, it was the characters and interactions that made it good. I admit that the Mass Effect story isn't that revolutionary either, but I believe the characters and interactions are far better (and they were great in KOTOR). Combine this with all-round superior game-play in my opinion, and yes, I like Mass Effect more than KOTOR.
 

TheKramers

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I suppose I'll never understand. I just don't think ME is a very great game. I'll finish it, but I won't enjoy it. I have hard time playing it for more than an hour at a time.
 

Shio

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Kahunaburger said:
People like ME:2 because the gameplay is very good, the dialogue (content and direction) is very good, and the episodic stories are very good.

And I personally would advise you to play on a harder difficulty using a non-Soldier class. Soldier was primarily designed to fit a shooter playstyle, and is therefore the least RPG-ish of the classes. Something like Engineer or Vanguard will give you a more tactical experience, as will micromanaging squad tactics, which is almost necessary on higher difficulties.
What do they call a cheeseburger with fries in France?

OT: I loved Mass Effect 2 but was greatly disappointed in it.
 

Choppaduel

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TheKramers said:
I started playing Mass Effect 2 because everyone said it was amazing. And don't get me wrong, it's not a bad game...
Well I must not be part of everyone then, because I never said it was amazing. I said it was a bad gears of war rip off.

TheKramers said:
... ME2 got way more recognition and I just don't understand it. I want the Escapists feedback.
This is due to pub & dev trying to appeal to broader markets, mainly the gears of war market.
[hr]
As <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/8868-Experienced-Points-What-s-Wrong-with-Mass-Effect-2>Shamus put's it, "it's just far short of the usual bioware standards."
Also, WHY PLANET SCANNING WHY!!! it's so incredibly boring.
 

Mr. 47

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I haven't played ME2 yet, but am currently playing the first, and for me it's the universe and the story, I have found both surprisingly compelling. I've played the PC and PS3 demos, both seem pretty good, combat wise.