Would the Tomb Raider reboot have worked better with old Lara?

[votemarvel]

Perhaps the only thing I dislike about the Tomb Raider reboot is the disconnect between gameplay and story.

We have Lara effortlessly slaughter 15 to 20 guys with nothing more than a bow and arrow, only to then be on the radio to Roth complaining that she isn't sure that she can do this.

So what would have changed if the old Lara was dropped into the same game and story? Would things really have changed that much? Old Lara has had friends on adventures, the same story would have unfolded, but we would have had a woman in the story who was as confident in her abilities as the player was capable of accomplishing.

I'm just about to start the second game in the reboot series and this just sprung to mind.

 

[Redryhno]

Eh, if the only thing you change is replace new Lara for old Lara, nope. The game had alot more problems than swapping the characters around. Primarily it being a "gritty" Uncharted ripoff(and this is coming from someone that doesn't really care for Uncharted) with less puzzles and a boner for gunplay and cover shooting and fixed spawns out of thin air so big it makes the American in all of us a bit annoyed.

And it's not like Lara was the only disconnect between story and gameplay. How many guns did you pick up that have been rusting for seventy years and they work perfectly? Tomb Raider 2013's(2012? I forget) biggest problem was that it embraced realism for the story, and threw it in the dumpster after setting it on fire and kicking its ribs in when gameplay was involved(which would be fine if they didn't focus on it so much). Not to mention for most of the game it sorta seemed to be ashamed of bringing out the fantastical elements of the TR universe. And then it dropped them in and didn't really make it clear what the hell was going on. And the ending...just...blew. You get to Sam, boom, slash cut to black background and credits roll.

 

[votemarvel]

The gun thing you mention would be another reason old Lara would have worked better. She'd know how to strip and repair those weapons.

Also the you get to Sam part at the end. Old Lara was used to the mystic, it wouldn't have come out of the blue for her.

It's as I said. I just think the same story with old Lara added would have gelled far more with the gameplay.

 

[Redryhno]

Maybe, but they were also going for "origin story" Lara, cuts out alot of anything you're talking about beyond possibly confidence or extreme determination.

 

[EternallyBored]

The gun thing you mention would be another reason old Lara would have worked better. She'd know how to strip and repair those weapons.

Also the you get to Sam part at the end. Old Lara was used to the mystic, it wouldn't have come out of the blue for her.

It's as I said. I just think the same story with old Lara added would have gelled far more with the gameplay.

New Lara already knew how to strip weapons, or did you miss the cutscenes where she talks to her mentor Conrad and they talk about how he was ex-special forces and taught her how to shoot guns from a young age.

She was new to the killing people thing and the supernatural stuff, but the game does establish that she was a trained shooter and survivalist before the game started, that's how she knew how to stay alive and how to shoot all those guns she picked up, she had a Royal Marines commando for a mentor.

As to the topic itself, I somewhat agree with ryhno, what story problems the game had wouldn't really be solved by slotting in the 2d paper thin character that was old Lara Croft. Sure, she would have been confidant and snarky rather than afraid and trying to survive, but I don't think that really would have improved the story much, and for a game that was rebooting the timeline, it would have made even less sense for Lara Croft's first adventure having her act like the generic action hero she was from the 90's games.

The new stories have problems, but not problems that would really be fixed by making Lara into what most younger gamers nowadays would mistakenly call a Nathan Drake ripoff.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I'm more irritated by Lara's new posh accent more than anything else. Or the fact that she's always out of breath.

I suppose the parallel is Old/New Dante. Old Dante and Lara are too-cool-for-school unflinching badasses, while New Dante and Lara are young whiny brats. You couldn't ask me to lament their character reboots, since they're essentially swapping a couple of measly attributes for another two.

In terms of storytelling, it's a pretty basic narrative, and it doesn't help that every character is a walking plot device ready to pave Lara's monomyth. It was hard to feel sorry for anybody, when everybody was clearly fulfilling the one thing they had to do to fuel Lara's arc forward.

 

[votemarvel]

New Lara already knew how to strip weapons, or did you miss the cutscenes where she talks to her mentor Conrad and they talk about how he was ex-special forces and taught her how to shoot guns from a young age.

Nope, but I'm guessing that you missed be writing "strip and repair". It's hell of a lot different taking something apart that is working and putting it together again, than it is taking something that is broken apart and repairing it.

Could they have taught Lara that, quite possibly I admit. Seems something old Lara would be far better at though.

She was new to the killing people thing and the supernatural stuff, but the game does establish that she was a trained shooter and survivalist before the game started, that's how she knew how to stay alive and how to shoot all those guns she picked up, she had a Royal Marines commando for a mentor.

I'm sure you'd agree though that there is a huge difference between knowing how to fire a gun and shooting a person.

As to the topic itself, I somewhat agree with ryhno, what story problems the game had wouldn't really be solved by slotting in the 2d paper thin character that was old Lara Croft. Sure, she would have been confidant and snarky rather than afraid and trying to survive, but I don't think that really would have improved the story much, and for a game that was rebooting the timeline, it would have made even less sense for Lara Croft's first adventure having her act like the generic action hero she was from the 90's games.

Would it have solved every issue, no of course not. But it would have helped things make sense.

Ah now I see where we may have broken points here. I'm not saying that this should have been old Lara's first adventure and she acts like she did in the others. I'm saying the story would have worked as a sequel just as well as it did for a reboot.

The new stories have problems, but not problems that would really be fixed by making Lara into what most younger gamers nowadays would mistakenly call a Nathan Drake ripoff.

Lara was doing what Nathan was before he was a gleam in his daddy's eye. They wouldn't have needed to turn Lara into anything, she already was that.

I'm more irritated by Lara's new posh accent more than anything else.

Never bothered me. She was always meant to be a toff. I could put up with Angelina Jolie's accent and this was one far better.

 

[votemarvel]

Right got to go to bed. So forgive any late or missed replies but a long work day awaits after this night's rest.

Enjoy the discussion and I hope to jump back in soon.

 

[Redryhno]

I'm more irritated by Lara's new posh accent more than anything else. Or the fact that she's always out of breath.

I suppose the parallel is Old/New Dante. Old Dante and Lara are too-cool-for-school unflinching badasses, while New Dante and Lara are young whiny brats. You couldn't ask me to lament their character reboots, since they're essentially swapping a couple of measly attributes for another two.

In terms of storytelling, it's a pretty basic narrative, and it doesn't help that every character is a walking plot device ready to pave Lara's monomyth. It was hard to feel sorry for anybody, when everybody was clearly fulfilling the one thing they had to do to fuel Lara's arc forward.

Eh, Dante has quite a bit more to him than just that, sorta like how Deadpool is a bit more tragic than his stories and personality let on.

But I will agree on everyone serving no purpose but to be the next sacrifice for Lara to get off her ass and do something.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

They could have went the other way and changed the gameplay to a less shotty killy affair. They could have made it a stealth and puzzle game where killing was as hard in gameplay as it is in the narrative.

 

[The Purple Grape]

The entire reboot suffers from having no real characters, only walking cardboard archetypes. And an edge so sharp, I hear my wrist explode every time generic whiny protagonist (refuse to call her Lara).
It misses the batshit insanity of the old games and focuses on kicking the crap out of its protagonist because writing an actual person is too hard because we need to 'protect' her. Lara needs protecting about as much as Samus Aran does. Vulnerable does not enter the equation.

All she is: pant, pant, pant, whine whine, whine, daddy daddy, pant pant. Truly breaking the mold for female characters. She is one dimensional but hey, as long as boobs aren't massive, its OK.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

NO!!

We need a Toddler Lara Croft, barely able to stand let alone walk, bravely trying to climb out of her crib to rescue Mr. SnugglePuss and Captain Kitty from where the evil big brother casually left them on the ground where the dog, General Wallace, might chew them.

And QTEs to walk between your parents to try an get cheerio or something.

And the scripted set-pieces are like peek-a-boo and horsie with daddy, and a desperate escape from your Great Aunt Nanners at the family Xmas party because she smells like ham.

Tomb Raider: Humble Beginnings

 

[Casual Shinji]

Just old Lara? No.

The reason we got this reboot is because people were tired of old Lara. Maybe if they'd given her the Wolfenstein: The New Order treatment, where it's practically the same character, but we get to peak behind the curtain. But that would've required Lara along with the rest of the characters to be well written and performed.

I think the reboot would've worked better if we'd gotten a slow gradual growth of Lara, instead of 30 minutes of being vulnerable followed by instant one-woman death squad. Not accounting for the horrible characters and voice acting, which obviously also could've been improved greatly.

 

[pookie101]

well i detested the old games and loved the reboot so im fine with new lara personally

 

[pookie101]

well i detested the old games and loved the reboot so im fine with new lara personally

Which ones have you tried? What did you not like about them?

tried all the ones on the PC and hated the lara character and hated the mechanics and game play

the reboot feels more "grounded" for lack of a better word for me

 

[Spushkin]

The only problem with the reboot is not with the character, but with the gameplay. Remove the god-damn ubiquitous killing and a useless skill tree, and make the tombs and puzzles the main gameplay-mover.

 

[Ambient_Malice]

I'm deeply unhappy with the entire direction of Lara's character. The Legend/Anniversary/Underworld trilogy easily justified Lara murdering people because they wouldn't give her stuff simply because she was a selfish psychopath. The reboot Lara is wrong, wrong, wrong. I haven't played Rise of the Tomb Raider, so I can't comment on it directly, but Rhianna Pratchett and Crystal Dynamics seem to be continuing down that road.

The reason we got this reboot is because people were tired of old Lara.

No, the reason we got this Lara is because Tomb Raider: Underworld only sold 2.5 million copies, and then in 2009, a sizable chunk of the development team got fired, and then Tomb Raider creator Toby Gard left Crystal Dynamics. The new Lara is an attempt to create a "relatable" Lara Croft that fills a bunch of "appealing" archetypes.