Why Democrats Lost In Virginia Is Painfully Obvious

[Schadrach]

The tipping point this election seems to have been mass panic about CRT....which wasn't even taught in anything but the universities and for which Republicans simply invented a definition for. So considering the hysteria was created from whole cloth there wasn't even any wokeness for the Democrats to distance themselves from.

I brought this up in the CRT thread a while back, but it's worth noting that the Republican definition of CRT (going to refer to it as GOP-CRT henceforth) tends to be pretty narrow and mostly consistent from bill to bill (just not the same thing as the esoteric branch of legal study) so I've got to ask - are you saying that GOP-CRT was only being taught in universities, or that actual CRT was only being taught in universities? Do you think GOP-CRT constitutes ideas that should be taught in K-12?

 

[Hades]

I don't really understand the outrage at the ''parents shouldn't have a say in how children are educated thing''. Hasn't that been how teaching has always worked? Knowledge isn't a democracy. The right even took that direct stance when it came to safe spaces or the idea of including other cultures aside from western ones.

Had my parents barged into the classroom and yelled at the teacher for including Roman history in the curriculum they would have been deemed to be completely bizarre. And if I started yelling at my teacher for not including Roman history I'd be deemed equally weird.

I brought this up in the CRT thread a while back, but it's worth noting that the Republican definition of CRT (going to refer to it as GOP-CRT henceforth) tends to be pretty narrow and mostly consistent from bill to bill (just not the same thing as the esoteric branch of legal study)

Then maybe they should hit the books util it is the same thing as the legal study. Because that's what it is. Because if they don't they're just fighting some fictional enemy they themselves invented. Very don quixote.

 

[gorfias]

You hear that the Democrats were simply too woke in Virginia but that seems a really strange assumption.

The tipping point this election seems to have been mass panic about CRT....which wasn't even taught in anything but the universities and for which Republicans simply invented a definition for. So considering the hysteria was created from whole cloth there wasn't even any wokeness for the Democrats to distance themselves from.

That's why Jimmy Dore's piece was some fresh news to me. I keep hearing the same thing: Democrats were too woke to win in Virginia. I think that is true but only because we're getting too much lip service from the Democrats on material matters.

Many think the CRT objection is boob bate for bubba. But isn't all of the racism and tribalizing from the Left the same thing? They'll talk a good game about race without addressing issues of class. Better jobs. Higher pay. Medicare for all. Dore speaks to popular issues the Democrats could pass but they don't even bring them up for votes. Due to that, we are left with nothing but the culture war stuff of which, the Democrats are on the wrong side.

I brought this up in the CRT thread a while back, but it's worth noting that the Republican definition of CRT (going to refer to it as GOP-CRT henceforth) tends to be pretty narrow and mostly consistent from bill to bill (just not the same thing as the esoteric branch of legal study) so I've got to ask - are you saying that GOP-CRT was only being taught in universities, or that actual CRT was only being taught in universities? Do you think GOP-CRT constitutes ideas that should be taught in K-12?

I'm kinda the opposite. I refer to CRT as "whatever you want to call it today". CRT is a catch all phrase for me meaning racism against white (and Asian and Jewish and Indian) people because of their race. It is the Left that wants to pretend it isn't a thing claiming it to be a narrow sub-field of law school analysis, which may be how it started, but is not today for our intents and purposes.

As to those saying parents should have no say in what public schools teach, that point of view is simply evil. They're our kids. We love them and want the best for them. And we pay for those schools. The one paying the fiddler calls the tune. And if they're teaching children to betray their parents to the government when they can? Help stuff Jews into ovens, etc.? I reserve the right to strongly object.

...so am I the only person that Looked at the new 4 star admiral and didn't immediately assume "Navy"?

I'll take that to mean the left should be satisfied with symbolic gestures when taken into forever wars. That's not a good thing.
ITMT: Dr Levine will oversee a 6,000-strong uniformed force

Rachel Levine: Transgender official sworn in as four-star admiral

Dr Rachel Levine is already the nation's most prominent openly transgender federal official.

www.bbc.com

Made a 4 star Admiral.

 

[Trunkage]

No, just that one, that has only been in government roles for 4 years, all of which were appointments by Democrats, and has been exceptionally unsuccessful in the pandemic, and got continually promoted anyway.

I'm pretty sure all those complaints you made about her was exactly why she got picked. Their features for the Dems, not bugs. Not that she was trans. And its the exact reason why McCualiff/ Rahm/ Tanden keep getting to hang around despite being terrible. This is the same Dems that saw some refugees getting beaten up at the border by officers and thought they could fix the problem by banning horse... because they're pretending that was the problem. While the Dems tend not to run head long into destroying society, they are just doing sideways actions that don't (and aren't intended to) help

I'm from WV. You may have heard of our Senator Joe Manchin?

Machin is just insanely corrupt. I wouldn't tarnish the concept of conservativism by claiming Manchin is one.

 

[Schadrach]

Had my parents barged into the classroom and yelled at the teacher for including Roman history in the curriculum they would have been deemed to be completely bizarre. And if I started yelling at my teacher for not including Roman history I'd be deemed equally weird.

And if they barged into your classroom and yelled at the teacher for asking students to personally affirm and adopt the findings of phrenology? Or melanin theory?

Maybe look at what the GOP anti-CRT bills actually bar - for most of them it's stuff like teaching that any race is inherently superior to any other, or that one should feel guilt for things done long before they were born because they are the same race as the perpetrators, etc, etc.

Then maybe they should hit the books util it is the same thing as the legal study. Because that's what it is. Because if they don't they're just fighting some fictional enemy they themselves invented. Very don quixote.

Is it a fictional enemy though, or are they really just calling it by the wrong name? I mean, if I say my car won't start because the generator-inverter is broken, that "generator-inverter" isn't the right name for a car part doesn't mean my car will start. And if you asked me and I said "The generator-inverter, you know the bit that uses engine power like a generator to make electricity to keep the battery charged" that I'm not calling it an "alternator" doesn't change that it is there, that I can describe what it is I am referring to, that it might be broken, and may be at least the proximal cause of my issue.

 

[Hawki]

Democrats lost?

Should I ask about the elephant in the room, or is that just me being an ass?

 

[Seanchaidh]

New Jersey is not Virginia, and elections are often about more than just the individual. McAuliffe lost in large part because Democrats in places like New Jersey are too left and woke for the people of Virginia.

Utter nonsense.

 

[MrCalavera]

But isn't all of the racism and tribalizing from the Left the same thing? They'll talk a good game about race without addressing issues of class.

Okay, this is simply a lie, though.

 

[gorfias]

Okay, this is simply a lie, though.

Big part of why I think that way was a discussion about the last great attack on classism: "Occupy Wallstreet". I don't recall the last time I even hear from them, once the media jumped on the BLM movement which tribalized people. It got people focused on tribe rather than things that people have in common regardless of tribe.

If the Democrat party really was doing something about income inequality (like giving us a $20 minimum wage) how would anyone bother voting Republicans pushing for tax cuts for the rich?

EDIT: Hush my mouth: maybe someone heard me. I did a search on Occupy and seeing some news stories. Maybe they'll make a come back.

Interesting: https://news.yahoo.com/why-occupy-wall-street-died-201032093.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

 

[Hades]

If the Democrat party really was doing something about income inequality (like giving us a $20 minimum wage) how would anyone bother voting Republicans pushing for tax cuts for the rich?

People can often vote against their direct self interest. To lash out against perceived betrayal, to defend themselves against ''bigger dangers'' like the EU or trans people or because they find cultural topics more worth fighting for than economic ones.

But you're correct that the Democrats not doing enough about income inequality. Though that's a bad argument to vote against them when the alternative actively facilitates income inequality.

 

[Silvanus]

As to those saying parents should have no say in what public schools teach, that point of view is simply evil. They're our kids. We love them and want the best for them. And we pay for those schools. The one paying the fiddler calls the tune. And if they're teaching children to betray their parents to the government when they can? Help stuff Jews into ovens, etc.? I reserve the right to strongly object.

Stop for a minute, because this is runaway mischaracterisation.

Firstly, the statement was actually, "I'm not gonna let parents come into schools, and actually take books [off the shelves], make their own decisions. Yeah, I stopped the bill, I don't think parents should be telling schools what they should teach".

So, in context: this statement was given in a specific discussion about the Beloved Bill. Now, McAuliffe also mischaracterised the bill when he implied it would have allowed parents to take the books "off the shelves". It wouldn't. It would have allowed parents to opt their kids out of any book with "sexually explicit content".

However, he's not entirely wrong when he talks about "taking books off the shelves", because Glenn Youngkin has also explicitly called for the book that sparked this discussion ("Beloved", by Toni Morrison, a Pulitzer Prize winner and a classic of American fiction) to be banned. The bill they mentioned doesn't do that, but Youngkin explicitly does want to ban it.

So there are several points to make. Firstly, in most educational systems, parents cannot just opt their kids out of parts of the official curriculum. That isn't "evil". That's the standard. How exactly can you have a standardised test/exam process if every kid is learning different stuff according to whatever their parents want?

Secondly, the bill that McAuliffe vetoed, which they were specifically referring to, would not have applied to stuff like "betraying their parents to the government" or stuffing people into ovens or any other hyperbolic nonsense. It's specifically about sexually explicit content in books.

Thirdly, if you're supportive of academic freedom, then the Republican position-- to ban books they don't like, even American literally classics -- should be more repulsive to you than anything else.

 

[MrCalavera]

If the Democrat party really was doing something about income inequality (like giving us a $20 minimum wage) how would anyone bother voting Republicans pushing for tax cuts for the rich?

My point, here: Democrats =/= The Left.
If anything the Left, a small fraction of leftists, has an opposite problem: Reducing racism entirely to class dynamics.

 

[gorfias]

Firstly, in most educational systems, parents cannot just opt their kids out of parts of the official curriculum. That isn't "evil". That's the standard. How exactly can you have a standardised test/exam process if every kid is learning different stuff according to whatever their parents want?

Thirdly, if you're supportive of academic freedom, then the Republican position-- to ban books they don't like, even American literally classics -- should be more repulsive to you than anything else.

To your 1st point, parents do have the right to a say in how curriculum is shaped and to hold otherwise I would characterize as evil. Not that they should dictate what is taught and how. We'd never have evolution taught were that not so.

And yes, I'm against banning books. That's a problem with extremes from either party. I've read they're out to get Huck Finn and To Kill a Mockingbird too.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Terry McAuliffe is a corrupt, conservative Democrat and because media institutions are also corrupt and conservative, they're blaming the left and 'wokeness' for him losing. Shameless, all of them.

Uhh... New Jersey was the 7th worse state for covid, how was Phil Murphy "aggressive" against covid?

States Ranked by Age-Adjusted COVID Deaths

Cumulative age-adjusted COVID deaths per capita by state, updated weekly. The Pacific Northwest, Hawaii, and Upper New England have fewer COVID deaths.

www.bioinformaticscro.com

You hear that the Democrats were simply too woke in Virginia but that seems a really strange assumption.

The tipping point this election seems to have been mass panic about CRT....which wasn't even taught in anything but the universities and for which Republicans simply invented a definition for. So considering the hysteria was created from whole cloth there wasn't even any wokeness for the Democrats to distance themselves from.

It's not about CRT. Why would blue counties care about CRT? It's about kids not going to school for a year, which made no fucking sense whatsoever. Parents were really fucking pissed.

The Democratic Unraveling Began With Schools

Republican victories in Virginia show how COVID-19 has fundamentally changed American politics.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Trunkage]

Big part of why I think that way was a discussion about the last great attack on classism: "Occupy Wallstreet". I don't recall the last time I even hear from them, once the media jumped on the BLM movement which tribalized people. It got people focused on tribe rather than things that people have in common regardless of tribe.
View attachment 4842
If the Democrat party really was doing something about income inequality (like giving us a $20 minimum wage) how would anyone bother voting Republicans pushing for tax cuts for the rich?

EDIT: Hush my mouth: maybe someone heard me. I did a search on Occupy and seeing some news stories. Maybe they'll make a come back.

Interesting: https://news.yahoo.com/why-occupy-wall-street-died-201032093.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

Many Occupy Wallstreet people became Qanon supporters. Many follow Adam Baldwin in the event that shall not be named. It ended up being a very broad church. Like the Tea Party, it disintegrated into a bunch of factions. The DSA is a lineage from Occupy that upholds some of it values

BLM proved to most White protesters that the police are brutal, and their skin colour didn't matter. It's funny you blame the tribalism on BLM solely.

The Dems are conservatives. Doing something like increasing minimum wages is antithetical to their beliefs. The Republicans are far right and want to strip rights off people. They'd prefer the minimum wage be 0. Voting Dems is harm reduction. Not improving society

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I'll take that to mean the left should be satisfied with symbolic gestures when taken into forever wars. That's not a good thing.
ITMT: Dr Levine will oversee a 6,000-strong uniformed force

Rachel Levine: Transgender official sworn in as four-star admiral

Dr Rachel Levine is already the nation's most prominent openly transgender federal official.

www.bbc.com

Made a 4 star Admiral.

I have no idea what you're saying. She's not in charge of any combat forces. She's subordinate to Surgeon General Vivek Murthy

Vice Admiral Vivek H. Murthy, MD, MBA

Dr. Vivek Murthy serves as the 21st Surgeon General of the United States – the "Nation's Doctor". From 2014-2017, he served as the 19th U.S. Surgeon General.

www.hhs.gov

 

[Fallen Soldier]

I read from somewhere that the reason why dems lost Virginia on Tuesday was a combination of things. Low turnout from dem leaning voters/independents in an off year election, the gop candidate leaning into culture war issues that animate the gop base and the fact republican voters are more engaged in elections when a Democrat is occupying the White House.

 

[gorfias]

BLM proved to most White protesters that the police are brutal, and their skin colour didn't matter. It's funny you blame the tribalism on BLM solely.

BLM didn't do it by themselves. I don't really "blame" them. I think they may have been used by a corporate machine, including media, that used them as a distraction to divide. Otherwise, something would have replaced Occupy to do something about growing income disparity.

EDIT: My point is, and the topic of this thread, that there is a reasonable argument that McCauliff did not lose due to being too Left wing.

 

[Silvanus]

To your 1st point, parents do have the right to a say in how curriculum is shaped and to hold otherwise I would characterize as evil. Not that they should dictate what is taught and how. We'd never have evolution taught were that not so.

Right, ok. And since McAuliffe's statement was specifically about how parents shouldn't be able to dictate what their kids are taught, then you shouldn't really have a problem with it.

And yes, I'm against banning books. That's a problem with extremes from either party. I've read they're out to get Huck Finn and To Kill a Mockingbird too.

Some (Democrat) asshats in New Jersey tried to remove Huck Finn from the curriculum, I think, yeah. In Virginia, the censorship is all Republican.

 

[gorfias]

Right, ok. And since McAuliffe's statement was specifically about how parents shouldn't be able to dictate what their kids are taught, then you shouldn't really have a problem with it.

Some (Democrat) asshats in New Jersey tried to remove Huck Finn from the curriculum, I think, yeah. In Virginia, the censorship is all Republican.

Virginia too. Dunno what party or ideology was behind banning Finn and Mockingbird, but it's there:

To Kill a Mockingbird removed from Virginia schools for racist language

Accomack County has suspended Harper Lee’s novel, as well as The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, from classrooms and libraries after parent’s complaint

www.theguardian.com