Roe v Wade discussions in the supreme court.

Recommended Videos

gorfias

Unrealistic but happy
Legacy
May 13, 2009
7,453
2,022
118
Country
USA
I am pro-choice but anti-Roe. It was made up law unrelated to Constitutional text or reasonable logical extensions to it. I think we're on a path of returning this issue to the states which I hope will come up with moderate positions concerning this volatile issue.
 

Gordon_4

The Big Engine
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
6,787
6,045
118
Australia
I am pro-choice but anti-Roe. It was made up law unrelated to Constitutional text or reasonable logical extensions to it. I think we're on a path of returning this issue to the states which I hope will come up with moderate positions concerning this volatile issue.
Given how widely disperate law can be from state to state in the US, I don't see returning the ruling to the state level doing anything whatsoever to achieve a moderate stance.
 

TheMysteriousGX

Elite Member
Legacy
Sep 16, 2014
8,580
7,215
118
Country
United States
I am pro-choice but anti-Roe. It was made up law unrelated to Constitutional text or reasonable logical extensions to it. I think we're on a path of returning this issue to the states which I hope will come up with moderate positions concerning this volatile issue.
Considering every challenge to Roe comes from states, one of which is allowing uninvolved third parties to act as bounty hunters, why do you think this will lead to moderate positions?
 

gorfias

Unrealistic but happy
Legacy
May 13, 2009
7,453
2,022
118
Country
USA
Considering every challenge to Roe comes from states, one of which is allowing uninvolved third parties to act as bounty hunters, why do you think this will lead to moderate positions?
Roe was a radical power grab from the Federal government... that politically served me in many ways. But you know equal and opposite reactions. The decision drove some people bonkers. Some even engaged in terrorism.
I have to hope that a representative republic that doesn't engage in radical power grabs will, over time, come up with moderate solutions that can be accepted by the vast majority of people.
 

TheMysteriousGX

Elite Member
Legacy
Sep 16, 2014
8,580
7,215
118
Country
United States
Roe was a radical power grab from the Federal government... that politically served me in many ways. But you know equal and opposite reactions. The decision drove some people bonkers. Some even engaged in terrorism.
I have to hope that a representative republic that doesn't engage in radical power grabs will, over time, come up with moderate solutions that can be accepted by the vast majority of people.
And you think that *this* Supreme Court, formed by stalling one candidate for 8 months while rushing through another in 8 *days* is evidence that radical power grabs are a thing of the past why?

How come this is only an acceptable reaction when it comes from the right?
 

Hades

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2013
2,649
2,031
118
Country
The Netherlands
I am pro-choice but anti-Roe. It was made up law unrelated to Constitutional text or reasonable logical extensions to it. I think we're on a path of returning this issue to the states which I hope will come up with moderate positions concerning this volatile issue.
It won't considering Roe vs Wade is getting repealed on behalf of the extremists.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

tstorm823

Elite Member
Legacy
Aug 4, 2011
7,660
978
118
Country
USA
Except that is true, isn't it? Criminalising abortion demonstrably drives desperate people (primarily the poor, who cannot afford to travel long distances) to turn to illegal practices. The stats bear that out.
I don't believe they do. I've seen two types of statistics used to justify such a claim. The first are the claims about how much abortion there was before banning/legalization, which I've never seen a source where the numbers for illegal abortions when it's banned don't seem to be absolutely pulled directly out of somebody's butt with just a hope that nobody will sniff test it. The other type is comparing abortion rates in nations with/without abortion bans, which find curiously similar rates per capita between developed countries with negative birth rates and 3rd world nations with alarming numbers of pregnant children, and never bother to question if there are other factors at play, lest it hurt the argument.

Edit: just want to add a concrete example of a dumb statistic. It is often said that the year before Roe v Wade, 39 people died from illegal abortion, and only 5 died from illegal abortion the year after. What they don't mention is that the year after, 33 people dies in abortions, of which most were now legal. So fewer people died, consistent with the trends in increasing medical safety at the time. But they make it sound like a huge dramatic reduction... (because you have to lie to make abortion appeal to people).
 
Last edited:

Worgen

Follower of the Glorious Sun Butt.
Legacy
Apr 1, 2009
15,526
4,295
118
Gender
Whatever, just wash your hands.
Roe was a radical power grab from the Federal government... that politically served me in many ways. But you know equal and opposite reactions. The decision drove some people bonkers. Some even engaged in terrorism.
I have to hope that a representative republic that doesn't engage in radical power grabs will, over time, come up with moderate solutions that can be accepted by the vast majority of people.
How was it a power grab? If anything it loosened power since it prevented the government, state or federal from invading a womans body?
 

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Jun 21, 2012
9,370
3,163
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
How was it a power grab? If anything it loosened power since it prevented the government, state or federal from invading a womans body?
It means that Christians can't have the control they want over other people. Thus, the issue is that Christians should never have had the power to do what they did in the first place. But, as can be seen in numerous occasions, with a variety of issues, when someone loses power they never should have had in the first place, its classed as a power grab
 

Fallen Soldier

Brother Lombax
Oct 28, 2021
518
517
98
Country
United States
I find it ironic and hypocritical how the party that claims to be for small government wants to tell women what to do with their own bodies.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hawki and BrawlMan

The Rogue Wolf

Stealthy Carnivore
Legacy
Nov 25, 2007
17,491
10,275
118
Stalking the Digital Tundra
Gender
✅
I find it ironic and hypocritical how the party that claims to be for small government wants to tell women what to do with their own bodies.
Well, it's because they want small government for themselves. It's those other people who need to be controlled- they're what's wrong with this country!
 

AnxietyProne

Elite Member
Jul 13, 2021
510
374
68
Country
United States
Well, conservatives, your brass ring is in reach. Let's see if you're dedicated as you claim you are.
 

Worgen

Follower of the Glorious Sun Butt.
Legacy
Apr 1, 2009
15,526
4,295
118
Gender
Whatever, just wash your hands.
It means that Christians can't have the control they want over other people. Thus, the issue is that Christians should never have had the power to do what they did in the first place. But, as can be seen in numerous occasions, with a variety of issues, when someone loses power they never should have had in the first place, its classed as a power grab
That is what the courts are for. To reign in the other parts of government and the states.
 

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Jun 21, 2012
9,370
3,163
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
I find it ironic and hypocritical how the party that claims to be for small government wants to tell women what to do with their own bodies.
They'll call it state rights as the 'small government.' Because the states are well known for respecting people's rights

Republicans have a way more organised grass roots system than the Dems. Hence, they want everything to be at that level so they can manipulate it easier
 

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Jun 21, 2012
9,370
3,163
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
That is what the courts are for. To reign in the other parts of government and the states.
That has worked how well over the last 250 years? The US court generally does not find in favor of the little people
 

gorfias

Unrealistic but happy
Legacy
May 13, 2009
7,453
2,022
118
Country
USA
It won't considering Roe vs Wade is getting repealed on behalf of the extremists.
It won't matter who is repealing it as long as it gets repealed. More below.

And you think that *this* Supreme Court, formed by stalling one candidate for 8 months while rushing through another in 8 *days* is evidence that radical power grabs are a thing of the past why?

How come this is only an acceptable reaction when it comes from the right?
I don't think the right has used the Judiciary to hallucinate its political prefernces into law since at least the 19th Century. And as stated above, it doesn't matter who repeals Roe, as long as this escapade in judicial hi jinks is over-turned and we can work on doing this the representative way.

How was it a power grab? If anything it loosened power since it prevented the government, state or federal from invading a womans body?
In a pro-life state, I used to have the right to outlaw a process I saw as murderous, racist, evil and socially destructive. Then, suddenly, without new legislation created by representative government and no clear imperative in enumerated law, 200 year old law was used as justification for brand new totalitarian restriction of this former power of the US individual.

A suggestion on how this will cause moderate reform: the religious right will over reach (ie have citizens rat each other out) and lose actual representative elections. Badly. And the only way back to power for them will be to stop being lunatics. Pass something on which we can all agree.

ITMT: In the US, the Left is on its way to an election defeat of historical proportions provided 2022 is not "fortified". That power loss caused by over reach will not necessarily be felt until 2024.
 

Hades

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2013
2,649
2,031
118
Country
The Netherlands
A suggestion on how this will cause moderate reform: the religious right will over reach (ie have citizens rat each other out) and lose actual representative elections. Badly. And the only way back to power for them will be to stop being lunatics. Pass something on which we can all agree.
Not really. That only works if the population are the ones who decide and they don't. The electoral college, voter suppression and gerrymandering can grant power to uniquely disliked politicians quite easily. They managed to nominate and install religious zealots on the supreme court exactly because popular support isn't very relevant in achieving power.

It won't matter who is repealing it as long as it gets repealed. More below.
It kinda does. Its getting repealed by religious extremists because they know fellow religious extremists are in positions of power to make use of it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gorfias

tstorm823

Elite Member
Legacy
Aug 4, 2011
7,660
978
118
Country
USA
I heard some bits of the discussions they were having, and couldn't help but notice they weren't really talking about Roe v Wade at all.
 

gorfias

Unrealistic but happy
Legacy
May 13, 2009
7,453
2,022
118
Country
USA
Not really. That only works if the population are the ones who decide and they don't. The electoral college, voter suppression and gerrymandering can grant power to uniquely disliked politicians quite easily. They managed to nominate and install religious zealots on the supreme court exactly because popular support isn't very relevant in achieving power.


It kinda does. Its getting repealed by religious extremists because they know fellow religious extremists are in positions of power to make use of it.
I wrote earlier that Roe, even though I think it judicial nonsense, serves me. It is a huge wedge issue against me that the decision eliminated. Now it is back and I don't think that is going to serve my preferred positions outside this issue.

Representative government is taking a beating. I think it was a Princeton study that enumerated this problem.

So what does the Oligarchy want? The men in it want easy sex without repercussions. A Feminist critique of Roe is that it was dreamed up by 9 elite men that made it easier for them to have sex with nice girls without repercussions.