Apparently, we invaded Haiti (again)?

[Eacaraxe]

Biden administration drafts UNSC resolution to support deployment of rapid action force to Haiti | CNN Politics

The United States has drafted a United Nations Security Council resolution that would support the deployment of a rapid action force to Haiti immediately as the country faces widespread crises, a US official has confirmed.

www.cnn.com

Poor bastards are still eating dirt cookies down there and never recovered from the monster earthquake twelve years ago (or the half-dozen plus hurricanes), for which we pledged humanitarian aid (but embezzled). But cartels whacked the US- and OAS (AKA the CIA)-approved kleptocrat who never actually won a free or fair election in direct violation of its constitution last year, so it's time to rock n' roll.

Let's get this one to 152 pages let's fucking goooooo.

 

[Elijin]

152 pages, as in you're drawing parallels to the Ukraine/Russia situation?

Do you even read your own articles?

 

[Eacaraxe]

152 pages, as in you're drawing parallels to the Ukraine/Russia situation?

Do you even read your own articles?

Well, clearly, someone has to save Haiti from the socioeconomic conditions we've created by denying them humanitarian aid and propping up decades' worth of authoritarian strongmen kleptocrats.

 

[Generals]

Well, clearly, someone has to save Haiti from the socioeconomic conditions we've created by denying them humanitarian aid and propping up decades' worth of authoritarian strongmen kleptocrats.

You can comment on why and how Haïti got to where it is now but this is an intervention because the country is begging for help. Quite the difference with what is happening in Ukraine.

 

[Elijin]

Clearly it's more fun for him to frame an invitation for international aid as a US invasion. Because everything the US does is eèeeeeeevil. Duh.

Bonus points for decrying the issue as a byproduct of denying humanitarian aid, while calling the deployment of humanitarian aid an invasion.

 

[meiam]

Haiti is a failed state at this point, it essentially doesn't have a government and many basic service aren't operated. While this intervention will help in the short term, the amount of work needed to stabilize the country is astounding, far above what the US is willing to commit to.

Ideally there would be a civilian version of this where US bureaucrat/judge/teacher/construction worker/etc. would be use to stabilize a small region/maybe just one city and then use this to rebuild the state. But I suspect any such place would quickly be overwhelm with internal migrant which would collapse the region/city infrastructure, so it would need to be heavily guarded, which would make it extremely unpopular.

 

[Eacaraxe]

You can comment on why and how Haïti got to where it is now but this is an intervention because the country is begging for help. Quite the difference with what is happening in Ukraine.

Clearly it's more fun for him to frame an invitation for international aid as a US invasion. Because everything the US does is eèeeeeeevil. Duh.

Bonus points for decrying the issue as a byproduct of denying humanitarian aid, while calling the deployment of humanitarian aid an invasion.

So here's a brief primer on US-Haiti "relations".

A History of United States Policy Towards Haiti | Modern Latin America

library.brown.edu

Here's a brief primer on the years missing from that article; AKA, the "Papa Doc" and "Baby Doc" Duvalier years when the US backed and supported totalitarian kleptocratic maniacs and human rights abusers, because "the Rooskies".

Terror, Repression and Diaspora: The Baby Doc Legacy in Haiti

The country's late dictator leaves behind a 1-million-strong diaspora unlikely to ever return home.

www.thenation.com

Here's an NYT article from '72 about how the US DoD was arming and training the Tonton Macoute, the Duvaliers' personal death squads.

Miami Company Employing Ex‐Marines For Training Members of Haitian Forces (Published 1972)

US officials disclose that Miami co called Aerotrade Inc, reptd to have link with Haiti's Min Cambronne, is employing group of former Amer marines to train members of Haitian armed forces; say US is investigating legality of arrangement; in last 18 mos, under licenses granted by US State Dept's...

www.nytimes.com

Here's also a fun fact about Jean-Bertrand Aristide: did you know that while the federal government invaded and occupied Haiti to "return" Aristide to power, the people who ousted him in the first place were on CIA payroll? And, Clinton only moved to invade Haiti after the story broke about how the coup was a CIA op? Boy, talk about embarrassing!

A HAITIAN LEADER OF PARAMILITARIES WAS PAID BY C.I.A. (Published 1994)

www.nytimes.com

Haiti: Restoring a Democracy · Clinton Digital Library

clinton.presidentiallibraries.us

Spy unit formed by CIA in Haiti tied to drug trade Three of its leaders accused of helping keep Aristide out

WASHINGTON — The Central Intelligence Agency created an intelligence service in Haiti in the mid-1980s to fight the cocaine trade, but the unit evolved into an instrument of political terror …

www.baltimoresun.com

Here are NPR articles about how the US stole billions in international aid for Haiti in the wake of the 2010 earthquake.

What Happened To The Aid Meant To Rebuild Haiti?

Three years after an earthquake destroyed much of Haiti's capital, it's clear that only a fraction of the $9 billion pledged in international relief reached the country. Most of what did arrive went to short-term relief, instead of rebuilding people's homes.

www.npr.org

The United States absolutely created the socioeconomic conditions and civil unrest from which the Haitians "need" rescue...by the United States.

 

[Elijin]

I get that you want to talk about Haiti/US relations over the years, but instead we're just going to stay on the bit where you created a topic presenting answering an invitation for international aid, as a hostile invasion on par with Ukraine.

 

[Eacaraxe]

I get that you want to talk about Haiti/US relations over the years, but instead we're just going to stay on the bit where you created a topic presenting answering an invitation for international aid, as a hostile invasion on par with Ukraine.

I'm more than happy to stay on that part. Because it's an invitation to give aid, in the same way business owners invite the Mafia to buy insurance. You're the one who questioned the state and intent of US "aid", and therefore needed the primer on what US "aid" for Haiti actually means.

 

[Gordon_4]

I'm more than happy to stay on that part. Because it's an invitation to give aid, in the same way business owners invite the Mafia to buy insurance. You're the one who questioned the state and intent of US "aid", and therefore needed the primer on what US "aid" for Haiti actually means.

I assume you meant to write “the same way business owners are invited by the Mafia to buy insurance” since it’s usually the criminals shaking down the honest business owner, not the other way around.

 

[Gergar12]

I have doubts about Haiti ever becoming a functional state no matter how many people in the UN go there, for one they would need to be there forever which they aren't willing to do long-term, and two Hurricanes could be in theory stopped by anti-hurricane infrastructure, but earthquakes are much harder to do so and require Japan like buildings.

Literally, get as many of them out as possible. I wish I could say the US, but US politics right now would swing republican quickly if we accepted all of them, France needs to accept some, and the US needs to accept some.

 

[Eacaraxe]

I assume you meant to write “the same way business owners are invited by the Mafia to buy insurance” since it’s usually the criminals shaking down the honest business owner, not the other way around.

Sadly, no, I meant it as I said it.

As the articles I posted earlier demonstrate, the relationship is for the US to fuck around down there and (not so) subtly undermine Haitian economic recovery, until the country self-immolates and its government has to "ask" for help. The CIA-Clinton admin wombo combo pulled with Aristide is pretty much par for the course, just notable for being the best-documented example of the behavior thanks to leaks and whistleblowers at the time.

We had the same relationship to Papa Doc to an extent; when he talked shit about JFK after the assassination, we pulled a goodly chunk of our covert support for our regime including USMC training for Tonton Macoute. After that, he remembered his place as a covertly US-backed tinpot dictator in the name of "anti-communism" until his death. Baby Doc was a lot more cooperative, which is why we were far more permissive tolerating his ridiculous bullshit and even smuggled him out of the country to France when it was time for him to go.

 

[Silvanus]

kleptocrat who never actually won a free or fair election

Your kinda guy!

 

[Thaluikhain]

I have doubts about Haiti ever becoming a functional state no matter how many people in the UN go there, for one they would need to be there forever which they aren't willing to do long-term,

Yeah, I'd say it's a lack of will, not a lack of ability. It'd be a big deal, and have to be done right, without the usual shenanigans.

Now, Eacaraxe (I want to say that name is hard to spell, but I'm not in a position to complain) is correct that the US has spent decades kicking Haiti to pieces, though that doesn't mean that every interaction the US has must be the result of the desire to kick them to pieces. But it does mean that on the odd occasion that the US (or rather, people within the US) genuinely want to help, they've got their work cut out for them.

 

[Eacaraxe]

Yeah, I'd say it's a lack of will, not a lack of ability. It'd be a big deal, and have to be done right, without the usual shenanigans.

It's more a lack of transparency and accountability in how the United States conducts its foreign affairs, coupled with the extensive propaganda network we have stateside and general lack of basic education. Haiti's hardly unique in these circumstances -- the entirety of Latin America has endured US "beneficence" to some extent, decidedly moreso since the start of the Cold War in the name of "anti-communism". Haiti just happens to be the example with the most readily-obvious consequences of it.

Now, Eacaraxe (I want to say that name is hard to spell, but I'm not in a position to complain) is correct that the US has spent decades kicking Haiti to pieces, though that doesn't mean that every interaction the US has must be the result of the desire to kick them to pieces.

Well, as I pointed out with Aristide, sometimes it's the result of good old fashioned ass-coverage. And with the Duvaliers, it's just good old fashioned realpolitik and consequences be damned. Or to put it another way, it's not the consequence of actual malice towards Haitians so much as it is brutal apathy.

But it does mean that on the odd occasion that the US (or rather, people within the US) genuinely want to help, they've got their work cut out for them.

Sadly as was the case in 2010, the US is its own worst enemy in terms of providing aid to Haitians. Like the NPR article pointed out, we misappropriated over 90% of the humanitarian aid money that went to Haiti in the wake of the earthquake, and spent the less than 10% left on HDR's, medical supplies, and tents (AKA, it was a nice payday for US-based materiel manufacturers). Very little to none of it went towards actually establishing continuity of governance, rebuilding critical infrastructure, or strategic cash reserves (to sustain international trade medium- or long-term): we basically just paid ourselves a shitload of money to go down there to hand out rations, band-aids, and tarps before fucking off.

Hell, the decade-long cholera outbreak in Haiti (its first in modern history) was thanks to UN peacekeepers not being screened for communicable diseases before deployment, and dumping raw sewage into local water supplies:

In the Time of Cholera

How the U.N. created an epidemic -- then covered it up.

foreignpolicy.com

The U.N.’s Cholera Admission and What Comes Next (Published 2016)

The organization has acknowledged its role in an epidemic that has killed thousands. But it has much further to go to truly make amends.

www.nytimes.com

And before we invoke Hanlon's razor on that one, again: we spent five years covering it up with the cooperation of the WHO and CDC.

 

[Silvanus]

I'm generally of the opinion that powers that are themselves responsible for poverty and suffering overseas hold a responsibility to ameliorate it, even potentially hundreds of years later. In the case of Haiti, much of its situation is the fault of despicable foreign policy implemented primarily by the United States and France.

However, the US also has a tendency to tie its assistance to the political situation. It very rarely acts in the pursuit of genuine recompense; oftentimes they'll stand to gain from a sympathetic government, so they'll seek to prop it up and class that as aid.

With that in mind, it's certainly fucking suspect that their assistance involves sending military personnel over. I appreciate that there's a genuinely state-threatening gang situation in Haiti, though it also seems that was (in part) created by the corporatist wrangling of the present government.

In short, the US has a responsibility to provide long-term, reliable, no-strings-attached aid (call it reparation if you prefer) to ameliorate the effects of their own dismal legacy (as does France). Military personnel don't look like it-- based on precedence.

 

[Eacaraxe]

I appreciate that there's a genuinely state-threatening gang situation in Haiti, though it also seems that was (in part) created by the corporatist wrangling of the present government.

Not so much. The current gang violence in Haiti is linked to drug cartels and narco-trafficking through Haiti -- that was why Moise got whacked in the first place. That goes back to the '80s and the Medellin cartel making inroads with Haitian government officials to use Haiti as a cocaine, firearms, and money transshipment portal between South America and the US. Hell, Aristide's '91 ouster was basically a Medellin-sponsored takeover of the Haitian government -- Joseph-Michel Francois and Raoul Cedras were two of the leaders of the coup.

Of course, Raoul Cedras was the CIA informant I mentioned earlier, and the coup was backed by SIN -- Haiti's intelligence agency, that was established, trained, and funded by the CIA. Not that SIN did their job, unless you count "their job" as massacring political opposition and voters on behalf of the cartels, while trafficking drugs themselves, using the counter-narcotics training they'd been given by the CIA to improve Haiti's drug trade.

Now, as far as the current wave of violence and firearms trafficking, the assertion being made is supposedly rural Haitian gangs are buying firearms on the civvie market in Florida and trafficking them to Haiti for use. I'm curious how exactly people who are so direly impoverished they eat mud cookies to survive, are buying M-4's, M249's, and anti-materiel rifles classified as destructive devices under federal law, in bulk on the civvie market.

Florida's crazy, but not "selling NFA firearms to anyone who walks in the front door for pennies on the dollar" crazy.

 

[Gordon_4]

Not so much. The current gang violence in Haiti is linked to drug cartels and narco-trafficking through Haiti -- that was why Moise got whacked in the first place. That goes back to the '80s and the Medellin cartel making inroads with Haitian government officials to use Haiti as a cocaine, firearms, and money transshipment portal between South America and the US. Hell, Aristide's '91 ouster was basically a Medellin-sponsored takeover of the Haitian government -- Joseph-Michel Francois and Raoul Cedras were two of the leaders of the coup.

Of course, Raoul Cedras was the CIA informant I mentioned earlier, and the coup was backed by SIN -- Haiti's intelligence agency, that was established, trained, and funded by the CIA. Not that SIN did their job, unless you count "their job" as massacring political opposition and voters on behalf of the cartels, while trafficking drugs themselves, using the counter-narcotics training they'd been given by the CIA to improve Haiti's drug trade.

Now, as far as the current wave of violence and firearms trafficking, the assertion being made is supposedly rural Haitian gangs are buying firearms on the civvie market in Florida and trafficking them to Haiti for use. I'm curious how exactly people who are so direly impoverished they eat mud cookies to survive, are buying M-4's, M249's, and anti-materiel rifles classified as destructive devices under federal law, in bulk on the civvie market.

Florida's crazy, but not "selling NFA firearms to anyone who walks in the front door for pennies on the dollar" crazy.

Well, if there really is that much heroin or cocaine being trafficked in the country it could be they’re buying guns on barter. Even with markups a kilo of most narcotics will buy a few guns. Maybe not Barrett M82s but some M4s that fell off the back of a truck? Easy.

 

[Dreiko]

They should send some cowboys on horseback to fight Hatians, then maybe the media will cover this as much as it deserves.

 

[Seanchaidh]

intervention because the country is begging for help

or not