Sexual harassment and rape allegations rapidly being fired off against various streamers

[lil devils x]

If a person intends to get someone fired, and then they contact that person's boss, attempting to get them fired, and then that person gets fired... doesn't that mean that they really do have that power?

Or are you saying that it's really up to the boss, and it's entirely his responsibility?

If we think of it like blackmail, how much "power" does the blackmailer actually have.

As Gordon said above, the blackmailer has no power on their own, the black mailers power is only granted to them by the person being blackmailed. If the person actually did something that would get them them fired, that is on them. If they did not, why would they not then go to their boss in advance and explain to them that they are being targeted and ask for their employers advice on the best way to proceed? They would likely secure their job in the process of removing the power they gave to the blackmailer. It isn't the employer's responsibility to clean up a mess someone else made, however, it is the person who made the mess in the first place. If the person is guilty though, " freedom of not facing the consequences of your actions" isn't really a "thing".

It is like all these people going and being racist on camera, or sexting or sending out emails ect and then crying because they lost their job, spouse and no one wants to be associated with them, including their own kids.. The evidence of your misbehavior would not exist if you had not behaved that way in the first place, thus it is 100% your own fault for people wanting nothing to do with you after the fact for doing these things in the first place. It is called " accepting responsibility for your own actions" to have to then deal with the consequences caused by your own actions.

 

[gorfias]

I may be the only sexist and MRA on Earth that adores #metoo as it appears to be calling out Feminist Allies a lot! Harvey Weinstein has great Feminist allie cred. Let Harvey reap what he has sown.
ITMT: we have real issues to be talking about as it pertains to sex and relations between men and women.
For starters:
1) Men are sexual predators and that acting solicitously is wrong.
R) Really? Women are the gate keepers on sex. The way it works most of the time, the man must pursuit sex. The woman either grants it or rejects it. Rejection can feel worse than physical pain. But a socialized man must accept the rejection, like Aziz Ansari reportedly did and you'd think that is that. Not so in his case. One of the problems with all of sexual harassment thinking is that it isn't the conduct of the man that is the problem. It is that he is not attractive enough to the female in a given situation to pull it off. Conduct that would get a 1/10 man put in prison would get a 10/10 man laid.
All of this may be cured if we simply go back to a "no pre-marital sex" society with arranged marriages and wifely LAWFUL duties to keep her man sexually satisfied by any means necessary. Or MGTOW. Ectogenis. No more mothers or father or family. Just babies grown in factories and raised by the government. Horrifying thought to me.
2) Punishment that fits the crime:
Guy sticks his finger in a girl's VJ (as Biden is accused of doing to a staffer). To me, that fits the legal definition of rape: unconsented to penetration. Should he get 6 years hard time for that? Is prison even an appropriate response? A week? With a record? Will he lose the right to vote?
I credit #metoo with getting us started on having these kinds of conversations.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Here’s what your not understanding. I’ll write it in big letters to make it extremely clear

EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO TRIES TO CANCEL SOMEONE ELSE HAS NO POWER TO CANCEL SAID PERSON

They can pretend they can cancel people but that’s platforms. If I say I I cancel Blackface Jimmy,’, what does that achieve? He’s not actually cancelled. A million people could say that and it wouldn’t make a difference. I don’t hold his contract. If whoever holds Kimmel contract fires Jimmy, that’s on them. It comes down to the Alex Jones issue. He lied about crisis actors in Sandy Hook. His viewers, seeing these people as evil, doxxed these victims. Other viewers them called them constantly to harass them. Then some committed suicide after being harassed so much. Alex Jones said that someone should get those ‘crisis actors’ but he never directed anyone to do it.

Also, what you are saying is that you want to impinge on the Cancellers Freedom of Speech. Which means, you are just as bad as the Cancellers. If you want Freedom of Speech you HAVE to let cancellers say whatever stupid thing they want. Your willingness to throw Freedom of Speech out the window once someone says something you don’t like just belies how much you don’t It.

Its that old adage. ‘I don’t defend what you say but I’ll defend your right to say it.’ I don’t like how Trump think the army should be used on protesters. That’s way worse than any Cancellers have every said. He still has the right to say it.

Holy shit dude, yell this at someone else. I made no claims to do anything to "cancellers"! Me explaining what the concept of cancelling is doesn't mean you should bite my head off as if I'm supporting the idea.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Harvey Weinstein has great Feminist allie cred.

No.

One of the problems with all of sexual harassment thinking is that it isn't the conduct of the man that is the problem. It is that he is not attractive enough to the female in a given situation to pull it off. Conduct that would get a 1/10 man put in prison would get a 10/10 man laid.

What, if a woman consents to have sex with someone it's different to her being raped? This shouldn't be a strange or outlandish concept.

 

[gorfias]

No.



What, if a woman consents to have sex with someone it's different to her being raped? This shouldn't be a strange or outlandish concept.

1: I think Meryl Streep, who called him "Go-d" would disagree with you. There is a problem with male allies.

Feminist Men Commit Sexual Assault Too

The world isn’t divided into Roy Moore-like predators and angels.

prospect.org

2: What is the difference between consensual sex and rape. The consent.
What is the difference between a 1/10 man telling a female coworker, daily, that she "looks gorgeous today". and a 10/10 man doing the same? The sexual rating of the man. Because one may find himself fired, the other, laid.

 

[lil devils x]

I may be the only sexist and MRA on Earth that adores #metoo as it appears to be calling out Feminist Allies a lot! Harvey Weinstein has great Feminist allie cred. Let Harvey reap what he has sown.
ITMT: we have real issues to be talking about as it pertains to sex and relations between men and women.
For starters:
1) Men are sexual predators and that acting solicitously is wrong.
R) Really? Women are the gate keepers on sex. The way it works most of the time, the man must pursuit sex. The woman either grants it or rejects it. Rejection can feel worse than physical pain. But a socialized man must accept the rejection, like Aziz Ansari reportedly did and you'd think that is that. Not so in his case. One of the problems with all of sexual harassment thinking is that it isn't the conduct of the man that is the problem. It is that he is not attractive enough to the female in a given situation to pull it off. Conduct that would get a 1/10 man put in prison would get a 10/10 man laid.
All of this may be cured if we simply go back to a "no pre-marital sex" society with arranged marriages and wifely LAWFUL duties to keep her man sexually satisfied by any means necessary. Or MGTOW. Ectogenis. No more mothers or father or family. Just babies grown in factories and raised by the government. Horrifying thought to me.
2) Punishment that fits the crime:
Guy sticks his finger in a girl's VJ (as Biden is accused of doing to a staffer). To me, that fits the legal definition of rape: unconsented to penetration. Should he get 6 years hard time for that? Is prison even an appropriate response? A week? With a record? Will he lose the right to vote?
I credit #metoo with getting us started on having these kinds of conversations.

Ugh. I'm sorry but what you typed above is really coming off as some serious incel propaganda drivel, and I sincerely hope you do not believe a word of it.

1) Solicitously =\= being disrespectful, demeaning, or generally making an ass of yourself. There is a huge difference between being respectfully flirtatious and being a jerk. If you don't know the difference, that is on you. That does not mean that all men have this problem, nor does it mean that women should "put up with" jerks simply because you can't figure out the difference.
R) Women want sex just as much, if not more than men do. Women being " gatekeepers" in the fact that yes, you need consent to have sex with a woman, women also need consent from a man and cannot just go up and have sex at will either. This works both ways. Although yes, traditionally in most cultures, the men do the asking, women are also expected to " attract a mate" and that does not always go as planned either. Both women and men deal with rejection, it is just part of life. We don't always get what we want. Often it is the "attractive men" who are the ones raping women, not the 1/10 guy, as it is the attractive. popular men who also think they are entitled to take what they want and do not need permission to do so. The man who raped me when I was a child was wealthy, physically fit and attractive. The man who came to my apartment and tried to hold me down was literally a body builder and yes attractive, the men who tried to pull me into their truck were not 1/10 either. Kidnapping, assaulting and raping to get what they want is not the same as consent.

Being married does not equal consent to sex "by any means". Raping your wife is still not okay and yes, you should still be able to go to jail for raping your wife, and the rest of what you wrote about no premarital sex, MGTOW, Ectogenis is pure nonsense and honestly does not even deserve a response. It is absurd to suggest or even think. Treating women with respect and expecting both


2)The ONLY woman who accused Biden of sexual assault admittedly lied repeatedly and now it seems she lied under oath as well and lacks credibility due to her changing her story numerous times. The same cannot be said for the MANY women who have accused Trump of sexual assault. How many years should Trump get?

 

[Thaluikhain]

1: I think Meryl Streep, who called him "Go-d" would disagree with you. There is a problem with male allies.

Feminist Men Commit Sexual Assault Too

The world isn’t divided into Roy Moore-like predators and angels.

prospect.org

Sure, there's a problem with male allies, that's been known for ages. But Weinstein (specifically) has been known to be an awful person also for ages, he wasn't interested in even pretending to be an ally, AFAIK. If Meryl Streep is saying otherwise, that's saying more about her than him.

2: What is the difference between consensual sex and rape. The consent.

Yes.

What is the difference between a 1/10 man telling a female coworker, daily, that she "looks gorgeous today". and a 10/10 man doing the same? The sexual rating of the man.

No. Again, it's how the woman views that. Consent is not quite the right word here, but the concept fits. The "sexual rating" (whatever that may mean) may play a part in that, but if, for whatever reason, he believes that she'd not appreciate it, he shouldn't do it. Obviously.

 

[lil devils x]

I have no idea why it chopped off my paragraph above and will not allow me to edit it but here is the rest of it:

Being married does not equal consent to sex "by any means". Raping your wife is still not okay and yes, you should still be able to go to jail for raping your wife, and the rest of what you wrote about no premarital sex, MGTOW, Ectogenis is pure nonsense and honestly does not even deserve a response. It is absurd to suggest or even think. Treating women with respect and expecting both people to be treated well in a relationship is not some " unattainable" utopia, it happens all the time and we have plenty of couples and families that have no problem with this. You thinking there is a problem where there is not does not suddenly mean that treating women as less than human is somehow okay because men should be entitled to sex when they want it.

 

[lil devils x]

Sure, there's a problem with male allies, that's been known for ages. But Weinstein (specifically) has been known to be an awful person also for ages, he wasn't interested in even pretending to be an ally, AFAIK. If Meryl Streep is saying otherwise, that's saying more about her than him.



Yes.



No. Again, it's how the woman views that. Consent is not quite the right word here, but the concept fits. The "sexual rating" (whatever that may mean) may play a part in that, but if, for whatever reason, he believes that she'd not appreciate it, he shouldn't do it. Obviously.

I mean it is like the idea of actually being sexually attracted to the person you are having sex with is somehow wrong? If a guy isn't sexually attracted to a woman he rejects her as well, it isn't like this doesn't go both ways here. Hell they already have shown repeatedly that it is the same women receiving the majority of solicitations on dating sites. When you have all the men wanting the same woman, of course not everyone is going to be chosen. Some men also seem to need to realize that their personality outweighs their appearance, so even if they are a model, if they have a bad personality, they will still be a 1/10.

 

[gorfias]

Sure, there's a problem with male allies, that's been known for ages. But Weinstein (specifically) has been known to be an awful person also for ages, he wasn't interested in even pretending to be an ally, AFAIK. If Meryl Streep is saying otherwise, that's saying more about her than him.



Yes.



No. Again, it's how the woman views that. Consent is not quite the right word here, but the concept fits. The "sexual rating" (whatever that may mean) may play a part in that, but if, for whatever reason, he believes that she'd not appreciate it, he shouldn't do it. Obviously.

1. And that's what I'm really getting at: Male allies can be awful too.
2. Maybe the man is not a 10/10 but what I'm saying is, you can be describing the EXACT same conduct and one is illegal and the other gets the man laid. Why? Because of the woman's response. Is she attracted or not.

Ugh. I'm sorry but what you typed above is really coming off as some serious incel propaganda drivel, and I sincerely hope you do not believe a word of it.

1) Solicitously =\= being disrespectful, demeaning, or generally making an ass of yourself. There is a huge difference between being respectfully flirtatious and being a jerk. If you don't know the difference, that is on you. That does not mean that all men have this problem, nor does it mean that women should "put up with" jerks simply because you can't figure out the difference.
R) Women want sex just as much, if not more than men do. Women being " gatekeepers" in the fact that yes, you need consent to have sex with a woman, women also need consent from a man and cannot just go up and have sex at will either. This works both ways. Although yes, traditionally in most cultures, the men do the asking, women are also expected to " attract a mate" and that does not always go as planned either. Both women and men deal with rejection, it is just part of life. We don't always get what we want. Often it is the "attractive men" who are the ones raping women, not the 1/10 guy, as it is the attractive. popular men who also think they are entitled to take what they want and do not need permission to do so. The man who raped me when I was a child was wealthy, physically fit and attractive. The man who came to my apartment and tried to hold me down was literally a body builder and yes attractive, the men who tried to pull me into their truck were not 1/10 either. Kidnapping, assaulting and raping to get what they want is not the same as consent.

Being married does not equal consent to sex "by any means". Raping your wife is still not okay and yes, you should still be able to go to jail for raping your wife, and the rest of what you wrote about no premarital sex, MGTOW, Ectogenis is pure nonsense and honestly does not even deserve a response. It is absurd to suggest or even think. Treating women with respect and expecting both


2)The ONLY woman who accused Biden of sexual assault admittedly lied repeatedly and now it seems she lied under oath as well and lacks credibility due to her changing her story numerous times. The same cannot be said for the MANY women who have accused Trump of sexual assault. How many years should Trump get?
I mean it is like the idea of actually being sexually attracted to the person you are having sex with is somehow wrong? If a guy isn't sexually attracted to a woman he rejects her as well, it isn't like this doesn't go both ways here. Hell they already have shown repeatedly that it is the same women receiving the majority of solicitations on dating sites. When you have all the men wanting the same woman, of course not everyone is going to be chosen. Some men also seem to need to realize that their personality outweighs their appearance, so even if they are a model, if they have a bad personality, they will still be a 1/10.

I'm am not an incel but an MRA. One can be both, I am not. But I am outraged by how society is functioning today with regard to boys, men and the war on them.

1: Sorry, but men can get trouble or even fired where no disrespect was intended.
2: Men did not push for sexual harassment law and changes to office behavior : women did. There have been male allies that helped (all the more reason to enjoy seeing them foisted on their own petard) but it was not done for men. As I wrote above, not necessarily men who are 10/10 but simply attractive to the woman for any reason. You were not attracted to your rapist. (And I am outraged on your behalf that it happened.) hence a difference between consensual sex and rape, even if the conduct looks similar.

As for a legal obligation for a woman to keep her husband sexually satisfied by any means necessary, if she has sex she did not want, rape in this manner is a legal term. When a boy is drafted, put on the front lines in a war and gets blown up and killed by the enemy, the powers drafting him did not "murder" him legally speaking.

Not that I would want that for my society. I am asking out loud, what the heck is the future going to look like? What are our alternatives?

As for punishment that fits the crime:
True case. Couple HEAVY petting on a couch at a frat party. Both drunk. Guy pulls a rookie move, inserting his finger into her vj without consent, likely in the hope of exciting her which could lead to sex, love, marriage, children and family. Instead, he is arrested and put on trial and could have gone to prison for years. Is that proportional to the offense? (BTW: in real life, he gets off because on social media, she had posted the statement that when she says no, what she really means is that is the start of negotiations. I think the acquittal was BS. It was an excuse to dodge the harder question. That male, legally speaking raped her. What is the proportionate response to what he, factually, did?)

 

[Thaluikhain]

2. Maybe the man is not a 10/10 but what I'm saying is, you can be describing the EXACT same conduct and one is illegal and the other gets the man laid.

Yeah, and the exact same conduct of shooting a bunch of Germans in the face could get you a medal in France in the 40s, and a conviction if you do it at a high school nowdays.

Men did not push for sexual harassment law and changes to office behavior : women did.

Given that it was a crime being predominately committed by men against women, that's not a massive surprise.

I am asking out loud, what the heck is the future going to look like? What are our alternatives?

We could always try to encourage people to treat each other decently as human beings, regardless of gender.

 

[Buyetyen]

I may be the only sexist and MRA on Earth that adores #metoo as it appears to be calling out Feminist Allies a lot! Harvey Weinstein has great Feminist allie cred. Let Harvey reap what he has sown.

Harvey was never really an ally. He was just powerful enough to maintain a public facade that that occluded all the evidence of what a garbage human being he is. This is a known problem. Anyone can declare themselves an ally, it's the follow-up that's the problem for many of them. That people are more discerning now is a good thing.

All of this may be cured if we simply go back to a "no pre-marital sex" society with arranged marriages and wifely LAWFUL duties to keep her man sexually satisfied by any means necessary. Or MGTOW. Ectogenis. No more mothers or father or family. Just babies grown in factories and raised by the government. Horrifying thought to me.

Incels believe some crazy shit, but the MGTOW thing always puzzled me. If, by your own logic, you are not attractive enough for love, what exactly are you depriving women of by taking a vow of celibacy? It comes across more as a post hoc justification for flat out giving up on dating altogether. And the presumption that enough men are willing to go celibate to actually disrupt world infrastructure sounds like a bad fanfiction prequel to the Y graphic novels. I mean, the whole thing just falls apart once you apply more than a few seconds of thought to it. It's self-defeating.

2: What is the difference between consensual sex and rape. The consent.
What is the difference between a 1/10 man telling a female coworker, daily, that she "looks gorgeous today". and a 10/10 man doing the same? The sexual rating of the man. Because one may find himself fired, the other, laid.

This model of "consent as vending machine" is really dehumanizing and creepy. This is not helped by the implication that complimenting a woman is only done for the purpose of getting sex from her.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Due process.

 

[Agema]

1: I think Meryl Streep, who called him "Go-d" would disagree with you. There is a problem with male allies.

I think Weinstein was a feminist in the same way Donald Trump is a Christian, which is to say not at all. It is merely politically advantageous for them to appear so to curry favour in their social and business circles - an age-old tactic.

What is the difference between a 1/10 man telling a female coworker, daily, that she "looks gorgeous today". and a 10/10 man doing the same?

In a professional environment (outside professions based on looks, anyway), the statement is generally inappropriate no matter who says it without having built up the right sort of relationship and trust with that coworker.

 

[Buyetyen]

In a professional environment (outside professions based on looks, anyway), the statement is generally inappropriate no matter who says it without having built up the right sort of relationship and trust with that coworker.

And that succinctly gets to the heart of the problem. MRAs can't stop thinking of women more like automatons than people. They expect perfect, scripted, 1-to-1 reactions to certain things they say or do (see also: the NPC meme a few years back). The idea of actually forming a human connection with someone is never a part of their scenarios, hypotheticals and equations. To say nothing of the fact that their scenarios always seem to assume there is never a bad context in which to go trolling for booty.

I mean, if you're that horny, find a swingers club or a Craigslist hookup if you're desperate enough. Don't try to source your pussy at work.

 

[Eacaraxe]

But Weinstein (specifically) has been known to be an awful person also for ages, he wasn't interested in even pretending to be an ally, AFAIK. If Meryl Streep is saying otherwise, that's saying more about her than him.

The worst-kept secret in Hollywood, direly fought to preserve by his closest allies many of whom outspoken performative feminists, and bought with millions of dollars' of contributions to major feminist organizations (that predated the scandal) such as Planned Parenthood, NOW, EMILY's List, Women's March, women's programs at Rutger's, and the Democratic party.

And dovetailing neatly from that, was the race to memory hole Weinstein's prominent role in public feminist activism and political campaigning, and disavow him, led chiefly by some of his biggest former allies and individuals materially implicated in having enabled his serial assault, so far as alleged to have trafficked women for him. Of the two women who have centered themselves at this controversy -- Milano and McGowan -- only one is married to a CAA agent implicated as part of Weinstein's trafficking network.

All of which more than happy to preserve the status quo by any means necessary so long as the coffers stayed full, until NYT, Ronan Farrow, and numerous blacklisted actresses like McGowan and Argento forced the issue to the point the cost of defending Weinstein outweighed the benefit.

Again, it's how the woman views that. Consent is not quite the right word here, but the concept fits. The "sexual rating" (whatever that may mean) may play a part in that, but if, for whatever reason, he believes that she'd not appreciate it, he shouldn't do it. Obviously.

And if Christian Grey wasn't a billionaire, 50 Shades would have been a Lifetime special presentation.

Which well ought to be of note considering this came up:

2)The ONLY woman who accused Biden of sexual assault admittedly lied repeatedly and now it seems she lied under oath as well and lacks credibility due to her changing her story numerous times. The same cannot be said for the MANY women who have accused Trump of sexual assault. How many years should Trump get?

Interesting that Anita Dunn, Biden surrogate and advisor and chief apologist, was a former Weinstein associate who helped defend him during the scandal, is simultaneously a managing director at SKDKnickerbocker and manager of the Time's Up LDF.

 

[Kae]

Before we had the system we had kangaroo courts and public lynchings or just plain old justice via the mob where people would have to round up a posse to survive.

IDK how things are in the US but there are lynchings all the time, I've seen them, it happens because the police is so useless that people resort to it.

Just because a system of order exists it doesn't mean it works at all, it's a system set up exclusively to benefit a certain group of people and it doesn't really give a shit about everyone else leaving them entirely on their own, which means that despite the fact that it shouldn't be happening, because it's the system's job to prevent these things, both of the things you mentioned still happen all the time, so how exactly is that supposed to make my grievances with the system less valid?

I wouldn't go anywhere near the cops in Mexico either if I were you, depending on where you are they are either directly work for the cartels or are corrupt as hell and your life very well may depend on being able to avoid them at all costs. This is ALSO the reason why so much vigilante justice is still happening in Mexcio as well though, when people have no where to turn, they are forced to sort it out for themselves.

Yep, I learned that the hard way, whatever you do don't talk back to the cops turns out they really don't like it, so they punched and stole my money, because cops suck, they're nothing more than thugs in uniform.

BTW did you know the cops actually expect you to solve problems yourself? When I reported my car as stolen apparently all they did was apparently put it on a list of open cases and would call me every now and then to ask me, if I found the car, because I'm expected to look for it and take care of everything myself, what is even the point of the fucking cops then?

 

[Buyetyen]

The worst-kept secret in Hollywood, direly fought to preserve by his closest allies many of whom outspoken performative feminists, and bought with millions of dollars' of contributions to major feminist organizations (that predated the scandal) such as Planned Parenthood, NOW, EMILY's List, Women's March, women's programs at Rutger's, and the Democratic party.

And dovetailing neatly from that, was the race to memory hole Weinstein's prominent role in public feminist activism and political campaigning, and disavow him, led chiefly by some of his biggest former allies and individuals materially implicated in having enabled his serial assault, so far as alleged to have trafficked women for him. Of the two women who have centered themselves at this controversy -- Milano and McGowan -- only one is married to a CAA agent implicated as part of Weinstein's trafficking network.

No disagreement that the system is fucking broken that he had that many people helping him get away with it. Still, declaring yourself an ally and making the correct mouth noises at public events tends not to hold up against the evidence of being a serial sexual predator.

 

[Kae]

I may be the only sexist and MRA on Earth that adores #metoo as it appears to be calling out Feminist Allies a lot! Harvey Weinstein has great Feminist allie cred. Let Harvey reap what he has sown.
ITMT: we have real issues to be talking about as it pertains to sex and relations between men and women.
For starters:
1) Men are sexual predators and that acting solicitously is wrong.
R) Really? Women are the gate keepers on sex. The way it works most of the time, the man must pursuit sex. The woman either grants it or rejects it. Rejection can feel worse than physical pain. But a socialized man must accept the rejection, like Aziz Ansari reportedly did and you'd think that is that. Not so in his case. One of the problems with all of sexual harassment thinking is that it isn't the conduct of the man that is the problem. It is that he is not attractive enough to the female in a given situation to pull it off. Conduct that would get a 1/10 man put in prison would get a 10/10 man laid.
All of this may be cured if we simply go back to a "no pre-marital sex" society with arranged marriages and wifely LAWFUL duties to keep her man sexually satisfied by any means necessary. Or MGTOW. Ectogenis. No more mothers or father or family. Just babies grown in factories and raised by the government. Horrifying thought to me.
2) Punishment that fits the crime:
Guy sticks his finger in a girl's VJ (as Biden is accused of doing to a staffer). To me, that fits the legal definition of rape: unconsented to penetration. Should he get 6 years hard time for that? Is prison even an appropriate response? A week? With a record? Will he lose the right to vote?
I credit #metoo with getting us started on having these kinds of conversations.

I've seen a lot of men claim that women don't solicit for sex which to me is pretty weird, I do realise that from everything I've said it may not be entirely clear but I'm male and maybe it's because I identify as asexual and as a result I've never initiated any relationship in my life but despite that I'm not a virgin because I've had plenty of women solicit me in the past, and maybe it's because I'm not really a fan of sex but I'd go so far as to say that I've been harassed by women who you know touched me without consent which was overall very uncomfortable, so it's not really my experience that women don't solicit for sex so I don't know why our experiences are different.

That being said my most unpleasant experiences have been with men, the sexual abuse I mentioned earlier in the thread was by a man since apparently they can't take no for an answer, and the only other instance when someone almost abused me was also a man, but that time I ran away successfully, so while I've had negative with both sexes I'd say men are far scarier, because they feel entitled for you to give them sex if you bothered talking with them and being nice while drinking, though admittedly I don't drink much.

 

[gorfias]

Yeah, and the exact same conduct of shooting a bunch of Germans in the face could get you a medal in France in the 40s, and a conviction if you do it at a high school nowdays.



Given that it was a crime being predominately committed by men against women, that's not a massive surprise.



We could always try to encourage people to treat each other decently as human beings, regardless of gender.

Exactly, but Lil Devils above wrote of women being just as interested in sex as men, as if she is not realizing how different we are and those differences creating different needs, problems and protections.
And again: you can think you are being perfectly decent and still get in trouble or even fired or thrown out of school, have your reputation destroyed and even thrown in prison.

Proportionality is something I believe we all have to be concerned with.

Harvey was never really an ally. He was just powerful enough to maintain a public facade that that occluded all the evidence of what a garbage human being he is. This is a known problem. Anyone can declare themselves an ally, it's the follow-up that's the problem for many of them. That people are more discerning now is a good thing.



Incels believe some crazy shit, but the MGTOW thing always puzzled me. If, by your own logic, you are not attractive enough for love, what exactly are you depriving women of by taking a vow of celibacy? It comes across more as a post hoc justification for flat out giving up on dating altogether. And the presumption that enough men are willing to go celibate to actually disrupt world infrastructure sounds like a bad fanfiction prequel to the Y graphic novels. I mean, the whole thing just falls apart once you apply more than a few seconds of thought to it. It's self-defeating.



This model of "consent as vending machine" is really dehumanizing and creepy. This is not helped by the implication that complimenting a woman is only done for the purpose of getting sex from her.

I think we can agree that there are people calling themselves allies who really are in fact, awful.

Many of the MGTWO are simply telling men to stop making the pursuit of women the end all of your life. Focus on being the best version of yourself that you can be. They also warn of the dangers for men of relations with women mostly stemming from concerns about the loss of liberty and finding oneself an exploited, disposable utility. I am an MRA. I understand the MGTOW but am not one of them especially in that they find MRA's foolish. Efforts to improve things for boys and men in our society is, in their belief, futile: just stay away from women. I hope it is not and that they are wrong.

Agreed about the consent thing but if you really think about it, you can no longer safely have sex even after marriage. You can think you are having consensual sex and be falsely accused of rape and find yourself facing awful punishments. What is our future? Where do we/should we go from here?

I think Weinstein was a feminist in the same way Donald Trump is a Christian, which is to say not at all. It is merely politically advantageous for them to appear so to curry favour in their social and business circles - an age-old tactic.



In a professional environment (outside professions based on looks, anyway), the statement is generally inappropriate no matter who says it without having built up the right sort of relationship and trust with that coworker.

Again, I write, I think we can agree that there are people calling themselves allies who really are in fact, awful.

I think it dangerous and foolish to make such statements without having the appropriate relationship, trust, etc. But it is a fact: this becomes an actual problem if the woman finds the man unattractive. If she finds him attractive, he may be on the path to getting laid. I'm concerned about actual laws that treat people differently when they are engaged in the same conduct.

But more importantly, from what I'm reading, people have a problem with male solicitousness to begin with.