Let's look at this logically. Voting against your interests is the death of a democracy. What did the founders of America say when they believed that they no longer had a say in how they'd be governed?
I can explain their reasoning in simpler words if you would find that helpful.
Probably something about how it was ok to own slaves and not give women the vote. One should be just a teensy bit critical of what they were saying.
Oh good sir, I am slain by thy wit. Verily, who could have foreseen that thou would point out in this discourse that certain personages of yesteryear, being among the most educated and enlightened of their day, could nevertheless have moral smidgens that entirely eradicate any claim to progress or moral centaintude, yea, even unto the 7th generation of the 7th generation. For lo, our entire conception of progress, rights of the individual and the collective, laws and orders, all founded upon imperfections of latter days! Forsooth, thou hast cast me in a most terrible conundrum! My very life, perpetuated by medicines contributed to by blackguards and charlatans! This communications device, devised by those with nothing more than base gold on the mind! Oh calamity! How can I ever move on! My entire modern life, a charade, a lie, a monstrosity, built on the backs of the undesirables, the evil, the morally compromised!
Yeah but fuck the founders, Jefferson was a loser and I spit on his grave.
But the majority of Democratic Senators told the whip they would vote for it even after Reconciliation. Their voters did get blue votes.
That's fair enough. Though there's plenty in his record that is broadly in line with the measures to expand coverage to those eligible for Medicaid, and to cap premiums-- these both build logically on ACA provisions that were restricted by outside forces such as the Supreme Court.
I went over, in detail, every healthcare cut or freeze that Joe Biden has been involved with in another thread. The worst was support for a year-long freeze, which is shitty indeed, but absolutely nothing came anywhere remotely close to a decade of cuts coming to 800 billion.
You said Biden "wasn't much better".
It's a perfectly valid point to make that evoking the opinions of the Founding Fathers in a discussion on modern politics is a shortcut to nowhere.
Again, I'm not playing The DNCs rigged game that just holds me hostage rather than gives me my best interests. The DNC has used vinegar my entire voting life and I'm done with tolerating their vinegar and will from now on demand honey.
Oh wow you have me so convinced, except you fucken don't because if the founders didn't give us the kind of voting system that would prevent a 2 party system from taking form. If they had then your point might have made sense, but they didn't and here we are. So you have to suck up the fact that there is only one option to get rid of trump, otherwise you are giving him your support, unless you feel like going 2nd amendment on this.
Well the DNC already pretty much supports M4A so vote Biden.
I will vote for DNC members who support M4A
Call it whatever you want; I want Medical Care to be a Right, not a "Cash or Credit?" in this country. Politicians who support that, no matter what they call it, will get my vote. Politicians who do not support that do not.
Then we have two different goals. I'm done with The Status Quo and especially after Corona just demonstrated why it's an AWFUL idea to have your insurance tied to your employer, a lot more people agree with me than they do with The Status Quo
I don't mean they have a different name for the concept you want. I mean nobody has that system at all.
I mean, yeah, if you want to get cute with the EXACT DEFINITION of every place, sure, that could be the case.
It'd also be nice if I could go to the doctor that I want, not have to do a dance of looking up who my insurance covers and figuring out which of those are decent.
So you plan to vote in the House of Representatives election in November, but not the Presidential?
Yeah, see, you're ok with trump cause you obviously think hes going to get you there before Biden.
I'll vote in the Presidential Election too. Plenty of parties who DO support M4A (granted, I haven't really looked into much of it yet given it's still early and I was really hoping Biden would open his eyes and stop being on his knees for Insurance Companies) that I can vote for when it comes to the presidency.
So you do want trump to win, got it. You don't need to be this circuitous about the whole thing. Just say "I think trump will do a better job then the only other party who could beat him." Simple as that, no need to beat around the bush.
You don't see it as worth voting for the introduction of a public option, the cap on premiums, or the premium-free coverage for those in states not covered by Medicaid? Those would be pretty drastic improvements.
This isn't persuasive.
