Feds are reportedly abducting people in portland
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One theory I read was that this event was an extraction of an undercover agent, with the reasoning being that:
- the guy was very calm about the whole thing
- No words were exchanged. No yelling of "POLICE, or STOP, or HANDS BEHIND YOUR HEAD" or any of the usual things police yell when they arrest somebody
- No handcuffs or restraints were used
- No marked cars
If it was an extraction it was a very poorly done one. The entire world is reporting on it, and government officials are calling for answers and investigations.
That...I mean, that does make a lot of sense and would be a lot better than The Trump Secret Police Force coming out like this but there are reports of this exact same exchange happening a bunch overnight (no identifying yourself/no talking to the person being arrested, no badges/identifying insignia, unmarked vehicle, etc).
I'm sure there's plenty of other video out there by now (or if not, there will be as people are now going to specifically be on the lookout for this kind of thing; this was the only video that I at least found in my searching so I can't say for sure what else is out there) so we'll see for sure once more and more videos show up.
At the very least, if this was a legit arrest and not a undercover thing like you're suggesting, these guys had better start identifying themselves and whatnot or it will be only a matter of time before someone starts a fire fight thinking they're getting kidnapped instead of arrested by an official government agency.
Something tells me you're not exactly volunteering to be example #1 of this tactic. Chicken-hawking doesn't suddenly become righteous just because you might have better ideals than neocons.
Until you're willing to actively put your life on the line, maybe don't advocate for an escalation of violence.
If there are other videos, I'm not finding them. I found a site that said there were but all I'm finding is the same one. How do we even know who these people are that are abducting people?
I think his point was more that if unmarked, unidentified, silent, armed and masked men in unmarked cars are rolling up and taking people off the street, how do you tell the difference between actual government agents and actual kidnappers pretending to be? If you can buy all the paraphernalia these 'agents' are wearing online and rent a van you can basically kidnap anyone you want at any time and people will just blame the government.
I can tell you if two guys just walked up to me and tried to take me in a van I would fight back. I've taught self defense - nothing good happens when people take you into a van.
I wasn't trying to comment on the morality/legality/etc of self-defense. I was talking about the call for others to put themselves in harm's way while sitting comfortably at home typing away at a computer. Hell, carrying a weapon might actually be the right thing to do, but, make no mistake, these federal agents would have no qualms responding lethally as we've seen other law enforcement do time and time again.
Right now, all we have is people's word for it that this is happening to multiple people and multiple politicians (specifically the mayor of Portland) are talking about it. If it is indeed Fake News and it's not happening, I would think that the government agencies (specifically Homeland Security) would be tripping over themselves to deny they're doing it as the optics alone look awful.
Government organizations are very slow to respond to these sorts of things. Singular politicians will make an immediate response but an organization always tries to come up with some kind of sanitized statement before saying something.
Here, found something more concrete
DHS pushes back against claim federal agents detaining Portland protesters aren't identifying themselves
The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) pushed back Friday against a claim being amplified by liberal politicians and activists that federal agents who deployed to Portland to disperse protesters this week aren’t identifying themselves.
www.foxnews.com
DHS isn't denying what they're doing. The only thing they're denying is that DHS officers are not identifying themselves when they roll up and arrest someone.
But here's a slight counter to that:Here, found something more concrete
DHS pushes back against claim federal agents detaining Portland protesters aren't identifying themselves
The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) pushed back Friday against a claim being amplified by liberal politicians and activists that federal agents who deployed to Portland to disperse protesters this week aren’t identifying themselves.
DHS isn't denying what they're doing. The only thing they're denying is that DHS officers are not identifying themselves when they roll up and arrest someone.
Federal Officers Deployed in Portland Didn’t Have Proper Training, D.H.S. Memo Said (Published 2020)
Rather than tamping down persistent protests in Portland, Ore., a militarized presence from federal officers seems to have re-energized them.
Well, on a really "I don't know how I feel about this" note, the likelihood for this is very low.
This would mean there would have to be some overlap with those people who were marching on their state governments with their AR-15s and those who support BLM.
I'm always open to being shocked, but I'm not holding my breath over that chance.
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Oh please, don't try to put words in my mouth because you have no idea what you are talking about. You and Gorfias just tend to have your own weird conspiracy world just on difference sides of the fence, you would make a great odd couple.
Paywall so I can't read it but by that headline alone, it sounds like they were doing this, they just weren't trained on how to do it right (with basic police stuff like reading rights and identifying yourself, although I would think that any police agency wouldn't need to be trained on such basic things). Even from the headline, it's clear Federal agents were doing things in the area.But here's a slight counter to that:
Federal Officers Deployed in Portland Didn’t Have Proper Training, D.H.S. Memo Said (Published 2020)
Rather than tamping down persistent protests in Portland, Ore., a militarized presence from federal officers seems to have re-energized them.www.nytimes.com
Ultimately though, we'll find out more and more as nights go on. I have no reason to doubt this is happening based on what we know but true or not, people are now going to be on the lookout for this kind of thing with their cameras ready at the first sign of trouble. If it's true, we'll start seeing more and more video as people are ready for this and will not be shocked into forgetting to hit record.
I wasn't saying that White Supremacist groups or whatnot were doing this. Just that if you're a random citizen walking along the street and guys with guns in tactical gear appear and try to force you into a unmarked van while not being willing to talk or identify themselves, that random citizen might deem this as dangerous and a kidnapping and react accordingly. You have no idea who these men are and the only reason you might think they're legit is they have a POLICE stencil on their chest but anyone could sew a POLICE stencil to their chest. This random citizen might be armed and if you're of the mind that armed men are trying to kidnap you, that seems like the time to use your weapon as in your mind, if these people were legit, they'd be identifying themselves and showing proper identification.
THAT'S my worry. Basically if these DHS agents are doing this, one of them (or the citizen) is going to get killed because the DHS isn't identifying themselves or showing proper identification.
That is certainly far better information than I was seeing, thank you.Here, found something more concrete
DHS pushes back against claim federal agents detaining Portland protesters aren't identifying themselves
The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) pushed back Friday against a claim being amplified by liberal politicians and activists that federal agents who deployed to Portland to disperse protesters this week aren’t identifying themselves.
DHS isn't denying what they're doing. The only thing they're denying is that DHS officers are not identifying themselves when they roll up and arrest someone.
Oregon has concealed carry laws and is generally one of the most permissive states regarding gun laws in the country. The protesters aren’t openly carrying guns or using them in self-defense because if they did the cops would kill them and dozens of others.
There was a similar case where a guy was yelling his name to reporters and his face was covered in blood so unlikely.
On the contrary, they're usually pretty quick, because they like to get a message out there ASAP (whether it's true or not is less important) - media image is extremely important. The government has plenty of media experts and strategists for this sort of purpose.
If they are slow, maybe two reasons come to mind. Firstly, something's been done that the people at the top don't know about, so they have to find out what it is. The second is perhaps a sort of subdivision of this, which is that even if the civil servants know, it needs a politician to explain what going on who hasn't prepared for it.
So, as someone living in Portland, I do in fact find this utterly terrifying. Portland has no burned down federal or police buildings, looting has occurred but not as wildly as in LA or Atlanta. We didn’t have our police threaten a walkout like in Louisville. No CHOP or any protester caused deaths like in Seattle. The DHS’s own page reports two police “possible concussions” and one “firebombing” as the sum total of violence justifying their actions.
No, they’re mad because people fired bottle rockets and Roman candles at a giant concrete courthouse. For this, they’re shooting people in the face and abducting people in the night. I don’t want my city to be Trump’s testing ground for his gestapo, but absolutely zero elected officials are doing anything about it because in all honesty they’re happy for this to happen so long as Trump is blamed. This country’s leaders are sacrificing my city for a fucking presidential election. I hate all of them and will forgive none of them.
No, they’re mad because people fired bottle rockets and Roman candles at a giant concrete courthouse. For this, they’re shooting people in the face and abducting people in the night. I don’t want my city to be Trump’s testing ground for his gestapo, but absolutely zero elected officials are doing anything about it because in all honesty they’re happy for this to happen so long as Trump is blamed. This country’s leaders are sacrificing my city for a fucking presidential election. I hate all of them and will forgive none of them.