Police shoot (another) unarmed black man in the back 7 times

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Houseman

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Like, legit question, are you in fact a robot? Because you seem incapable of understanding that people can make poor decisions when under stress but in the moment they seem like the most sensible plan and that human interactions can be weird and nuanced and make no sense sometimes because that's how emotions work. And most humans are heavily impacted by emotions.
I prefer "sociopath" to "robot".

I'm just joking. Lil' is adamant that nobody ever made any poor decisions or mistakes. Everyone (except maybe her parents) did everything right. She asked "What was my brother supposed to do?" and then countered every suggestion with "No, he couldn't have done that because [reason]"

So she's the one who isn't conceding that people can make poor decisions, or at least, she doesn't think her and her siblings made any, ever. Anyone who says otherwise "doesn't understand how these things work"
 

Aegix Drakan

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So she's the one who isn't conceding that people can make poor decisions, or at least, she doesn't think her and her siblings made any, ever.
You and I both know full well that if she said he could have done something better in that entire saga, you'd pounce with an "Then you admit that he's at fault, and it's not the fault of 'the system' "

Like...Unless I'm SEVERELY missing something, you already said that even though the car apparently had no fault at all, because the engine check light would not shut off, then driving the car was "illegal and he shouldn't have done it, it's his fault".
 

Houseman

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You and I both know full well that if she said he could have done something better in that entire saga, you'd pounce with an "Then you admit that he's at fault, and it's not the fault of 'the system' "
Well, I guess we'll never know, because she'll never say that...
 

lil devils x

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UGH Really? You are really going to go there?
1) My brother told us he had to work, I had no reason to not believe him. He has always been a hard worker.
2)I am getting pretty irritated with your unfounded false allegations and accusations of dishonesty here. Accusations of exaggeration, " ignoring" what Native Americans have been telling us for generations has been happening and THEN ignoring what the FBI tells you is happening to because apparently YOU know better than The experts, the documented proof and all of the people who have actually had this done to them. Seriously.
3) My brothers and cousins FIXED HIS CAR WITH NO LABOR COSTS. The Loan was for the parts alone. 3 of my brothers are certified mechanics and either work in or have worked in automotive shops.. THIS brother could not pass his test because he is dyslexic and kept confusing the parts numbers. I have never had to pay labor costs to have any car fixed ever, just the parts and paid my family with food, medical treatment and returned favors. No one ever said they charged him labor costs, " fixing the car" = he buys the parts and my brothers help him fix it" but then again in poor families that is already understood, I forget that wealthy people actually PAY other people to fix things. IN poor families, we fix everything ourselves. The washer breaks, we fix it. The plumbing breaks we fix it. The car breaks we fix it. Poor people do not have " service people" do these things for them, they ARE the service people. You just jumped to the false conclusion again that his own brothers ripped him off when most poor people ALREADY KNOW we have to do this stuff ourselves to begin with.Computers for cars are not cheap. And this after he replaced everything else that they thought could cause the problem before it came to that so the parts costs were adding up.

4)I didn't ask you what my brother did wrong, you just assume he did something wrong because that is how you view the world.
5)Why don't we move in everyone' brother while we are at it? We can only solve so many problems at once here. I already took in my sister and her 3 kids, my other sister and her 2 kids and yet I should take in my brother too? I don't smoke and cannot be around smoke. My brother smokes. He grows his own tobacco plants and I am not taking those in either. Even though yes, that is traditional in our culture, I want nothing to do with it. He is going to have to go find somewhere that accommodates smokers. He could have always gone back to the reservation, though the poverty there isn't an improvement.

6) What part of "probationary until I was 16" don't you understand? You cut off the rest of what you were told about legal emancipation. They can legally emancipate you at a younger age as " probationary" as determined by the court, and then have it finalized at 16. The courts have a bit of flexibility with this as it is determined on a case by case basis. Sort of like how they give "hardship licences" at 15 in Texas when they otherwise would not qualify for one. Courts can consider special circumstances. I was considered a special circumstance not only was I living on my own and proved I was responsible for myself, but because not being legally emancipated was preventing me from enrolling in college, and they thought that was important enough for me to do immediately.

7)Why would I call the cops a second time after what happened the first time? Actually breaking bones would be considered worse right?

8) " My opinion" is invalidated? You act like this How about the actual facts as recorded here:
Native Americans are considered a vulnerable population. Statistics from the 2010 U.S. Census, National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, and GAO Foster Care report illustrate that Native Americans experience higher levels of poverty, rape, and entry into the foster system – all risk factors for trafficking. The proliferation of the fracking industry also contributed to a rise in sex trafficking of Native girls and women as “man camps” were established in remote areas of Minnesota, North Dakota, and South Dakota, creating a high-demand for sex in an environment rampant with drugs, alcohol, and limited supervision. While there was widespread media coverage of the rise of sex trafficking in the Bakken, discussion of its impact on Native girls and women was limited. Cindy McCain, co-Chair of the Arizona Human Trafficking Council and wife of Senator John McCain, argues that “Native Americans are largely overlooked as victims,” further compounding the issue and reinforcing the belief among tribal communities that the U.S. government provides little protection and support. Additionally, some believe the presence of casinos on tribal lands contributes to the demand for sex trafficking; McCain has stated that she has “witnessed with my own eyes six little girls lined up against a wall in a casino outside of Phoenix on display for customers.”
Where did all my links go? I am adding them in a post below because the forum ate them.
 
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lil devils x

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You and I both know full well that if she said he could have done something better in that entire saga, you'd pounce with an "Then you admit that he's at fault, and it's not the fault of 'the system' "

Like...Unless I'm SEVERELY missing something, you already said that even though the car apparently had no fault at all, because the engine check light would not shut off, then driving the car was "illegal and he shouldn't have done it, it's his fault".
OMG my brother grew tobacco plants and smoked. How dare he try to go to work to support himself right? He deserves to be homeless forever. Yea.. Then the whole " I ignore what you tell me and what human trafficking victims are telling me and I am just going to pretend it isn't real" nonsense. Why am I even responding at this point? I guess because I hope that people genuinely want to understand, but I am getting the feeling he really doesn't and is instead just looking for a reason to judge the poor rather than relating to what people actually go through here.
 
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lil devils x

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Post above cont:
.

ALL the data on this is telling us this is what is happening, yet, you dismiss it when people tell you it is. Blind eye of the year award right there. Telling people that you are " ignoring " what they are telling you is happening because you don't want to believe it is willful ignorance.

9) Of course I know about their conditions, I have been the one caring for them. Families are complicated. Simply because parents didn't always do the right thing and were not great parents does not suddenly make them not my parents. My parents had health issues. I did not abandon them when they were in need regardless of what they may have done wrong or right in my life. I do not believe me treating them badly is somehow "right" regardless of what they did and will not make me " feel better" by doing so.
 
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Houseman

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UGH Really? You are really going to go there?
1) My brother told us he had to work, I had no reason to not believe him. He has always been a hard worker.
So could he have sold his car? Did he have time to? That's the question.
If he could have, but didn't, then that was his mistake. Perhaps it was the one thing that could have avoided this whole tragedy.

Could he have gotten roommates and/or lived withing walking/cycling distance of a job? That's another thing that could have avoided this whole tragedy.

My brothers and cousins FIXED HIS CAR WITH NO LABOR COSTS.
Well, "fixed" here is a little inaccurate, because it still couldn't pass inspection...

I didn't ask you what my brother did wrong
You're right, what you actually said was "Go ahead and explain to me what he was supposed to do here?"
And that's what I've been attempting to do, although I've been wording it as "mistakes that could have been avoided".

6) What part of "probationary until I was 16" don't you understand?
I understood what you said. I merely pointed out that the law says nothing about probationary emancipation.
You claim that everybody bent the rules for you. Okay.

Why would I call the cops a second time after what happened the first time?
You said "So you skip the part where I called the cops and then claim I didn't". I was merely correcting you about that. I didn't say that you should have, but I'll say it now, you should have, even if you think you shouldn't have. Perhaps you'd get a different police officer that would have taken it seriously, unlike the first one who didn't care about your broken fingers. Perhaps the whole police department is corrupt because of your uncle. Perhaps not.

don't smoke and cannot be around smoke. My brother smokes. He grows his own tobacco plants and I am not taking those in either.
Well if that was the issue, then add "stop smoking so that you can live with your sister" to the list of "things your brother should have done differently."

" My opinion" is invalidated? You act like this How about the actual facts as recorded here:
Yes, it is your opinion that, if you were to enter the foster system, you would have been trafficked, since you do not know that for a fact. You can list all the statistics and link to all the articles and tell all the second-hand stories you wish, but that wouldn't change the fact that this is just your opinion.

Similarly one can cite statistics and articles and tell stories about how black people get shot by the police, but that doesn't mean that every black person will die whenever they encounter a police officer. One's belief that this is what will happen to them if they get pulled over is just that, a belief.

I don't doubt that this is what you believe, and I don't doubt that this happens. I only doubt that your family's situation would have worsened if you all would have entered the foster system.

Here's a challenge for you. Name ONE thing you and your siblings did wrong. Just one thing that contributed to the worsening of their situation. Can you do it, or are all of your siblings perfect angels?

Of course I know about their conditions, I have been the one caring for them. Families are complicated. Simply because parents didn't always do the right thing and were not great parents does not suddenly make them not my parents. My parents had health issues. I did not abandon them when they were in need regardless of what they may have done wrong or right in my life. I do not believe me treating them badly is somehow "right" regardless of what they did.
How good of you.
 

lil devils x

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So could he have sold his car? Did he have time to? That's the question.
If he could have, but didn't, then that was his mistake. Perhaps it was the one thing that could have avoided this whole tragedy.

Could he have gotten roommates and/or lived withing walking/cycling distance of a job? That's another thing that could have avoided this whole tragedy.



Well, "fixed" here is a little inaccurate, because it still couldn't pass inspection...



You're right, what you actually said was "Go ahead and explain to me what he was supposed to do here?"
And that's what I've been attempting to do, although I've been wording it as "mistakes that could have been avoided".



I understood what you said. I merely pointed out that the law says nothing about probationary emancipation.
You claim that everybody bent the rules for you. Okay.



You said "So you skip the part where I called the cops and then claim I didn't". I was merely correcting you about that. I didn't say that you should have, but I'll say it now, you should have, even if you think you shouldn't have. Perhaps you'd get a different police officer that would have taken it seriously, unlike the first one who didn't care about your broken fingers. Perhaps the whole police department is corrupt because of your uncle. Perhaps not.



Well if that was the issue, then add "stop smoking so that you can live with your sister" to the list of "things your brother should have done differently."



Yes, it is your opinion that, if you were to enter the foster system, you would have been trafficked, since you do not know that for a fact. You can list all the statistics and link to all the articles and tell all the second-hand stories you wish, but that wouldn't change the fact that this is just your opinion.

Similarly one can cite statistics and articles and tell stories about how black people get shot by the police, but that doesn't mean that every black person will die whenever they encounter a police officer. One's belief that this is what will happen to them if they get pulled over is just that, a belief.

I don't doubt that this is what you believe, and I don't doubt that this happens. I only doubt that your family's situation would have worsened if you all would have entered the foster system.

Here's a challenge for you. Name ONE thing you and your siblings did wrong. Just one thing that contributed to the worsening of their situation. Can you do it, or are all of your siblings perfect angels?



How good of you.
I don't ponder judgments about what was right or wrong in desperate situations, because I do not view the world that way. You fabricate imaginary roommates like he had these options that didn't exist- while you have never had to deal with any of this yourself. You do not understand what it is like and just pretend like all of this imaginary stuff you invent as options is realistic when it really isn't. No one ever said that people always do the right things, in fact, I specifically stated earlier that is not realistic to think they have, or expect them to. You just want to blame the poor for decisions they make while in impossibly desperate situations and somehow that makes them undeserving of help. Things my siblings did wrong? Oh how about my other stupid brother running over trash cans because he was mad his girlfriend broke up with him? How about my youngest brother taking my Dad's gun and selling it to his buddy, whose girlfriend then took it and shot herself with it? Oh yea people are far from perfect. That does not necessarily make me think that things they did would have changed the outcome of their lives here. It usually is just a bunch of crap that happened along the way. Oh and I have named PLENTY I have done wrong in the past, it just didn't apply to this conversation. I fell through the ceiling in the boys bathroom at school and made a guy piss all over himself. I accidentally set my best friends hair on fire at school. I went to " pants" my friend in the woods while he was trying to take a leak and his pants had snaps all the way up and came apart when I did so I wound up ripping his pants entirely off and when I did I just laughed and ran away with them so he was left pantless in the woods... I was far from " perfect" but that is irrelevant to what actually happens to you due to just being poor.

You do realize that even the courts are now not even placing older Native American children in foster care at all due to how severe this actually is right? Why do you think they would rather emancipate us at younger ages than actually do so now? Hell they are at least now trying to block native american children from being placed in non native american families at all and instead being placed with the tribal council instead to try and do something about it because it is extreme. Not acknowledging how this works and acting like real life is some Disney channel BS where this doesn't happen more often than not, isn't helping anyone. It isn't helping you understand or relate to what is happening in the world you live in and it isn't helping the people this is actually happening to. You actually are actively harming those individuals at risk because turning a blind eye to it happening is what enables it to continue.

Oh wait you do not realize any of this because you didn't even read the articles, and choose to ignore all sources on the subject because you know better than everyone else right? You didn't watch the interviews about what Sgt Woods had to say either yet right? Because it isn't about learning about what is happening for you or expanding your actual understanding on the subjects it is just about trying to Judge everyone else with the extremely limited partial information you have because that is somehow a better use of time spent right? Got it.

There really is no point in continuing this. I tried to help you understand what people actually deal with, but honestly, it is pretty well pointless because until you actually have to deal with it yourself, you are not going to understand how this works and you seem pretty unwilling to learn from other's experiences or even all the data we have on a subject because somehow you " know better" than anyone else.
 

lil devils x

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Just to give you an idea of what sgt Wood actually had to tell us was was normal for " the good guys" to do on the job:
"

Pissing and shitting inside suspects homes during raids, on their beds and clothes.
— Michael A. Wood Jr. (@MichaelAWoodJr) June 24, 2015
Jacking up and illegally searching thousands of people with no legal justification
— Michael A. Wood Jr. (@MichaelAWoodJr) June 24, 2015

Targeting 16-24 year old black males essentially because we arrest them more, perpetrating the circle of arresting them more.
— Michael A. Wood Jr. (@MichaelAWoodJr) June 24, 2015
Punting a handcuffed, face down, suspect in the face, after a foot chase. My handcuffs, not my boot or suspect
— Michael A. Wood Jr. (@MichaelAWoodJr) June 24, 2015



Because you know, it is REALLY just about a corrupt cop here and there and not an actual problem with the way the system is designed right?
 

Houseman

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I don't ponder judgments about what was right or wrong in desperate situations,
Well then you never should have asked "what should my brother have done?" because the answer to that question will necessarily include pondering these sorts of judgments

Oh and I have named PLENTY I have done wrong in the past, it just didn't apply to this conversation.
See? You and your siblings did nothing wrong in this situation. They were all perfect little angels . It was all "the systems" fault, and the fault of the corrupt CPS, the corrupt police department, or some other boogeyman keeping you down.

You're right, there is no point to continuing this if you're not open to admitting any sort of wrongdoing or responsibility for you or your siblings. Your question "what should my brother have done?" was never genuine, as you are not open to any answer.
 
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lil devils x

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His father is reporting that Jacob Blake is paralyzed from the waist down:

Jacob Blake's Father says son's paralyzed from the waist down after police shooting in Kenosha. Doctors do not know whether or not the injury is permanent. " I want to out my hand on my son's cheek and kiss him on the forehead and then I'll be ok" the father says

Though he is lucky to be alive right now, this is going to be devastating to his life either way even if he does manage to heal. The officer responsible for this should be charged with attempted murder for sure. I haven't seen any information about the officer yet, anyone heard any update on that?
 
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fOx

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I will take partial credit for this transformation, even if it is utterly undeserved since I mostly just yelled at you about the efficacy of fire in resolving financial woes.
You should really give credit to the police, and whatever chinese peasent left raw meat on the ground in wuhan
 

Iron

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You should really give credit to the police, and whatever chinese peasent left raw meat on the ground in wuhan
I think you meant a chinese lab technician that screwed up the clean-room protocols.
 

Xprimentyl

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The officer responsible for be charged with attempted murder for sure.
I'll be shocked if that's the charge that comes down. The knee-jerk was to put them on administrative leave, so already, they've implied the potential this was all just a "misunderstanding" to be explained away "in the line of duty" n'all because God knows if I were to shoot someone (who's neither a threat nor a suspect) 7 times in the back in front of their children, I'd be given the same leniency...

Some folks in here want to give cops the benefit of the doubt, but the fact remains, "police officer" is a position that shouldn't be afforded that out of hand simply by way of owning the title. You have a GUN and the law on your side; if you can't be trusted to wield that power responsibly, then you should suffer the full weight of that same law you swore to uphold.

EDIT: and so I'm clear, I'm not implying all cops are bad or can't be trusted; I'm saying the standards should be raised when upholding the law and doing what's right is your fucking JOB. Sure, most altercations involving the police don't go the way this one did, but accepting that ANY of them do is the problem and the reason the bad cops feel entitled to make headlines like this.
 
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ObsidianJones

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Well, this has escalated quickly.
First slaves landed in America in 1619. 1865 saw the Emancipation of the Africans. Immediately after, Jim Crow laws where enacted to keep the treatment of blacks as nowhere equal to whites.

Many centers of black wealth, burned to cinders by a white populace that didn't want such a thing. 1968 saw civil rights being ratified, but at that point the Prison Industrial Complex ramped up. Minor infractions saw many blacks jailed for longer than necessary. A tradition that is still active to this day. Overpolicing is a hallmark in the black community. Underfunding the educational system is a hallmark in the black community. No jobs in the community and/or no one hiring them from that community is a hallmark of the black community.

And more over, undercutting and/or brushing aside the trials and tribulations of current matters as "It's just in the past" from a majority at large.

And even with all the evidence, the videos, the police officers themselves admitting the problems with how they approach the community... This still happens. In a way that says "Your signs are nice, but we'll still do whatever we want".

Escalated quickly? Going over the past 400 years, it seems kind of decelerated. Given certain segments of the majority were ready to ride on governmental buildings for a few months of quarantine, one would believe those segments of the majority would tend to agree... if they could actually relate and/or empathize with anyone that isn't themselves.
 

Agema

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I haven't seen any information about the officer yet, anyone heard any update on that?
He's been kept in the station whilst they prepare the most exclupatory version of events they can get away with and have him rehearse it thoroughly.
 
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Specter Von Baren

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First slaves landed in America in 1619. 1865 saw the Emancipation of the Africans. Immediately after, Jim Crow laws where enacted to keep the treatment of blacks as nowhere equal to whites.

Many centers of black wealth, burned to cinders by a white populace that didn't want such a thing. 1968 saw civil rights being ratified, but at that point the Prison Industrial Complex ramped up. Minor infractions saw many blacks jailed for longer than necessary. A tradition that is still active to this day. Overpolicing is a hallmark in the black community. Underfunding the educational system is a hallmark in the black community. No jobs in the community and/or no one hiring them from that community is a hallmark of the black community.

And more over, undercutting and/or brushing aside the trials and tribulations of current matters as "It's just in the past" from a majority at large.

And even with all the evidence, the videos, the police officers themselves admitting the problems with how they approach the community... This still happens. In a way that says "Your signs are nice, but we'll still do whatever we want".

Escalated quickly? Going over the past 400 years, it seems kind of decelerated. Given certain segments of the majority were ready to ride on governmental buildings for a few months of quarantine, one would believe those segments of the majority would tend to agree... if they could actually relate and/or empathize with anyone that isn't themselves.
You doing ok Obsidion? You haven't been on the forums for a while, everything going alright in the real world?
 

Trunkage

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So security officers get shown something similar in Australia. There is a montage they show you during training and a example that stuck with me was a guy on a bike pulled over by an officer. He was playing with the petrol cap while talking to the officer. Then he pulled the cap up and pushed it into the officers head. He fell over dead. The cap had a knife underneath

I dont remember any shooting. Guns aren't the only dangerous thing to worry about.

It also doesnt lead really overreacting police here