Trump nominated a second time for Nobel Peace Prize

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Silvanus

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They're printing crap. It's not better than the Russia dossier. I ought to trust the newspaper's integrity when CNN had been found to blackmail a guy over a meme.

This is "trust me bro" level of journalism.
Well, it's our right to distrust what's printed, just as it's our right to distrust what the White House spokespeople say. We have to weigh up probabilities. Personally, having already heard Trump denigrate McCain for having been captured and then deny he did so (despite video evidence), I think it's perfectly plausible.


It was a breach, because the court's ruling was a fucking joke, and the members of it were stacked by Morales. Remind yourself that it was founded by him, to serve his agenda.
The members were elected by the people. I just told you that.

You disliking the ruling doesn't make it a breach. And you've not come up with anything more substantial than your dislike.

I like how you ignore the rest of the sentence, when it implies you believe that life starts at conception, and that abortion is murder, to justify using that international document to allow Morales a third term in office.
OK, let's address it.

I do not agree with those stipulations in the Constitution; I think they're grotesque, and should be repealed. Those stipulations are also the law. The law is not right.

Y'see how we're able to separate our views on the morality of the matter from its legality? They're totally different things.

You have a personal dislike for what Morales did. But factually, legally, it's not a breach. The law was not broken. You can say the law was wrong to allow it, but you can't say the law was broken.

I don't support either side in Venezuela. Morales broke Constitution IMO but then the US backed a coup.
He factually didn't break the Constitution. The Constitution established the Plurinational Constitutional Court as the highest court, with the final say on the matter, and the court sided with him.

There's a more compelling argument to be made that he broke trust with the people, by holding a referendum and then disregarding the result.
 

Iron

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Well, it's our right to distrust what's printed, just as it's our right to distrust what the White House spokespeople say. We have to weigh up probabilities. Personally, having already heard Trump denigrate McCain for having been captured and then deny he did so (despite video evidence), I think it's perfectly plausible.




The members were elected by the people. I just told you that.

You disliking the ruling doesn't make it a breach. And you've not come up with anything more substantial than your dislike.



OK, let's address it.

I do not agree with those stipulations in the Constitution; I think they're grotesque, and should be repealed. Those stipulations are also the law. The law is not right.

Y'see how we're able to separate our views on the morality of the matter from its legality? They're totally different things.

You have a personal dislike for what Morales did. But factually, legally, it's not a breach. The law was not broken. You can say the law was wrong to allow it, but you can't say the law was broken.



He factually didn't break the Constitution. The Constitution established the Plurinational Constitutional Court as the highest court, with the final say on the matter, and the court sided with him.

There's a more compelling argument to be made that he broke trust with the people, by holding a referendum and then disregarding the result.
You're arguing with me over a technicality. I'll give you a couple of similar technicalities and I'll try to demonstrate to you why I don't take this as seriously as you.
.

Everything here was "technically" legal.

You're really grasping at straws here friend.
 

MrCalavera

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You're arguing with me over a technicality.

Everything here was "technically" legal.
Same "technicalties" can be applied to every middle eastern country, which you've mentioned in your lengthy post.

And, BTW:
I don't support either side in Venezuela. Morales broke Constitution IMO but then the US backed a coup. And there's been fighting about it since

Trump pulling a Bolivia in another country is about as good as Obama in the middle East. But better than Bush
Good point. Why is US interference in Middle East bad, but US interference in Latin America somehow defendable?
 

Agema

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There is literally nothing interesting about being nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize.

It is one of the lowest bars to pass imaginable: there are of tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people worldwide who can nominate a person for the Peace Prize, and a large number of them (because "national politician" is a qualifying category to be able to nominate) are professional twats.
 

Iron

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There is literally nothing interesting about being nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize.

It is one of the lowest bars to pass imaginable: there are of tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people worldwide who can nominate a person for the Peace Prize, and a large number of them (because "national politician" is a qualifying category to be able to nominate) are professional twats.
yes. Still I enjoy the indignation people give off when they hear the news
Same "technicalties" can be applied to every middle eastern country, which you've mentioned in your lengthy post.

And, BTW:

Good point. Why is US interference in Middle East bad, but US interference in Latin America somehow defendable?
technicalities I discussed in my first or second post in this place.
Libya
Syria
Yemen
Then again, US hasn't officially declared war since WW2 if you want to be technical
hmm I am interested in this because I am familiar with Bolivia a little bit and I had a bad impression from the president.
This was a fun read.
I didn't intend to endorse or defend US interventionism in Bolivia, as I had believed that the US had nothing to do with this. I'll read this later when I get the urge.
 

Tsun Tzu

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The Nobel Prize is pretty useless...but it's still hilarious to see the obvious and expected response to something like this involving Trump.

 
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Agema

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I think it's hard to avoid the fact that the Nobel Peace Prize has a few quality control issues. (That said, the other prizes have had some duff awards, too.)

One simple way it could probably resolve them is to do what it does with most of the other prizes: award it 10-20 years after the supposed accomplishment.
 

Agema

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You mean to say that the Price for Medicine going to the guy who invented lobotomy isn't well-deserved and somehow controversial? I am shocked! SHOCKED! If I had pearls I'd clutch them now.
Well, I suppose on the bright side they eventually got round to giving an award to Arvid Carlsson, who played an integral role in our understanding of antispychotic drugs, thus making lobotomies almost entirely obsolete.
 
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Silvanus

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You're arguing with me over a technicality. I'll give you a couple of similar technicalities and I'll try to demonstrate to you why I don't take this as seriously as you.

[snip]

Everything here was "technically" legal.

You're really grasping at straws here friend.
It's not a "technicality" for you to say something's illegal when it's factually not. If you want to claim it's wrong or unethical, fine, but examine why that is: it has very little to do with the law in those countries.

See, with all of those examples you brought up-- Putin, Mugabe, and Jinping-- they rule(d) dictatorships. The countries do/did not have free elections or any way for the people to directly influence the government. The reason those constitutional amendments are unethical is that they removed any possibility for the people to choose their officials, or for their government to change.

In contrast, what happened in Bolivia? A free general election was called in 2019, and the people freely decided (by a wide margin) that they wanted the Movement for Socialism in power. The same reason doesn't apply. After all, countless countries don't have term limits (including most of Western Europe).
 
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Trunkage

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It's not a "technicality" for you to say something's illegal when it's factually not. If you want to claim it's wrong or unethical, fine, but examine why that is: it has very little to do with the law in those countries.

See, with all of those examples you brought up-- Putin, Mugabe, and Jinping-- they rule(d) dictatorships. The countries do/did not have free elections or any way for the people to directly influence the government. The reason those constitutional amendments are unethical is that they removed any possibility for the people to choose their officials, or for their government to change.

In contrast, what happened in Bolivia? A free general election was called in 2019, and the people freely decided (by a wide margin) that they wanted the Movement for Socialism in power. The same reason doesn't apply. After all, countless countries don't have term limits (including most of Western Europe).
Just letting you know you quoted the wrong person. Also, are we just not talking about the riots in Russia due to Putins interference there?
 

Iron

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yo @Silvanus the quote function failed again

anyway I really really want to go on stupid tirade but I should be better than this.
The electorate voted for the movement for socialism in power, yet earlier that year they voted against Morales representing them as its leader. He disregarded the ruling and pushed it through regardless, like any regular populist would, and I described earlier how it is the second time he tried to bullshit his way past the two term limit.
If you have issue with how I claim that this was illegal - you can do that, but I stick to it because the courts were stacked by Morales and the legal ruling was utter rubbish. Furthermore if you agree with the legal ruling, then you also agree that life starts at conception and that abortion is murder, according to the international document they cited.
 

Iron

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Just letting you know you quoted the wrong person. Also, are we just not talking about the riots in Russia due to Putins interference there?
please open a new thread I know nothing of this
 

Trunkage

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please open a new thread I know nothing of this
I'll try tomorrow. I'm going to sleep rn. But's I think its been going on since June when Putin removed a governor that everyone liked there... but the governor probably killed someone in the 90s... but to be fair, so did probably every other governor in the country because it was *that* time in Russia
 

Silvanus

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Just letting you know you quoted the wrong person. Also, are we just not talking about the riots in Russia due to Putins interference there?
So I did. Edited to correct it.

yo @Silvanus the quote function failed again

anyway I really really want to go on stupid tirade but I should be better than this.
The electorate voted for the movement for socialism in power, yet earlier that year they voted against Morales representing them as its leader. He disregarded the ruling and pushed it through regardless, like any regular populist would, and I described earlier how it is the second time he tried to bullshit his way past the two term limit.
Right, which provides you with evidence that it's unethical or wrong. I've already said there's an argument for that.

Though you would also need to take into account the fact that the referendum was lost by the government by 2.6%, whereas the general election was won by the government by 10.5%. So the latter is clearly a stronger priority for the people/ a stronger mandate.

If you have issue with how I claim that this was illegal - you can do that, but I stick to it because the courts were stacked by Morales and the legal ruling was utter rubbish.
For the third time, the members of the Plurinational Constitutional Court are elected by popular vote. None have been appointed or "stacked" by the executive. You just keep ignoring this and repeating the mistruth.

Furthermore if you agree with the legal ruling, then you also agree that life starts at conception and that abortion is murder, according to the international document they cited.
I've already explained why this is bullshit. I'm not making any moral statement on whether I agree with the legal ruling. People can disagree with the law. I disagree with it on those things, and you disagree with it on term limits.