When Woodward asks if Trump has any impetus to understand Black Anger. Trump says "No"

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SupahEwok

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I look at this as an outsider and I'm certain this is orchestrated to make you think voting for Biden would bring peace and stop all of the madness in 2020 while the poor guy is supposed to be retired sniffing kids somewhere in Florida.
Nah, I hate the idea of voting for Biden, he's corrupt, bumbling, and delirious at best. My vote comes down to one issue: who would I rather be at the head of the Covid vaccine distribution? Ultimately, for me it's Biden. If for no other reason, that Trump has done such a bad job so far that Biden couldn't do worse, and there's a chance that he (more accurately, his administration) could do better.

Even so, it'll be a dark time. A weak figurehead means the Whitehouse and Cabinet will be factionally controlled by party insiders vying for control. I love to keep busy so I don't have to look too closely at how bleak the future of our country is.
 

Hawki

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Of course, from the perspective of a Native American, we tend to primarily focus on the people who came over here and invaded here rather than look at Europe's neighbors as much. Their neighbors didn't invade us, they did.. and we didn't do anything to them to provoke such an action in the first place. XD
I think it's reasonable to focus on history through one's own lens, but...well, I'll put it this way. At one end of the historical spectrum there's whataboutism, and at the other, there's myopia. By the tenets of the former, in this context, any invasion in history could be dismissed as "well, what about X?" By the tenets of the latter, any particular incident/region/group in history could be regarded as being unique, damn global context.

Since we're looking at the Americas, you could dismiss the Spanish invasion of the Aztecs by pointing out that the Aztecs were expansionist themselves, and the only reason Cortez succeeded was that he was able to enlist the help of native tribes who were fed up with their masters. It doesn't wash the conquisitors of their guilt, but it's important to note that the Aztecs weren't pacifists either. The whataboutery position can be used to alleviate the conquisitors of any guilt. The myopic position is to regard them as being uniquely bloodthirsty.

The TL, DR version is that if we look at the last 13,000 years, there's been no shortage of conquests, wars, empires, and all that fun stuff. It's why I'm generally wary of people idealizing the past, or insisting that anarchism is the way to go. The entire human race was effectively anarchists before the advent of agriculture. How do you think they fared against agricultural civilization? And how would agricultural civilization fare against industrial civilization? And how would industrial civilization fare against atomic civilization? Chances are, you don't need to play the Civilization series to imagine it, since we've got examples of all those things bar atomic.
 

Iron

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Nah, I hate the idea of voting for Biden, he's corrupt, bumbling, and delirious at best. My vote comes down to one issueç who would I rather be at the head of the Covid vaccine distribution? Ultimately, for me it's Biden. If for no other reason, that Trump has done such a bad job so far that Biden couldn't do worse, and there's a chance that he (more accurately, his administration) could do better.

Even so, it'll be a dark time. A weak figurehead means the Whitehouse and Cabinet will be factionally controlled by party insiders vying for control. I love to keep busy so I don't have to look too closely at how bleak the future of our country is.
single issue voter on covid-19? cool. Rest assured this will all go away if Biden wins anyways, so his treatment of it is irrelevant. Suddenly people will be able to go out again, and those that wear masks will be mocked the same way anti-maskers are mocked nowadays.
 

SupahEwok

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single issue voter on covid-19? cool. Rest assured this will all go away if Biden wins anyways, so his treatment of it is irrelevant. Suddenly people will be able to go out again, and those that wear masks will be mocked the same way anti-maskers are mocked nowadays.
The vaccine distribution, and subsequent economic reconstruction, is the single biggest domestic issue. The economy up to this year has been shaped by the 2008 housing crisis and recovery, and our recovery from this is likewise going to shape just about everything moving forward. And it doesn't just happen with "lel vaccine". There's not much need to look at anything else, for the office of president at least.
 
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Iron

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The vaccine distribution, and subsequent economic reconstruction, is the single biggest domestic issue. The economy up to this year has been shaped by the 2008 housing crisis and recovery, and our recovery from this is likewise going to shape just about everything moving forward. And it doesn't just happen with "lel vaccine". There's not much need to look at anything else, for the office of president at least.
Trump didn't handle the economy well before 2020?
 

SupahEwok

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Trump didn't handle the economy well before 2020?
Economic policies take years for their full impact to be shown. It is quite likely that the booming economy was due to Obama administration policies starting to show returns. It is quite unlikely that anything Trump did would have significant effects within 1-2 years because economics simply don't move that fast outside of crashes.
 
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Agema

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That's not what he freaking said!
Listening and reading comprehension is a lot more than what people literally say. It's also about how they say stuff, and sometimes what they don't say.

Trump didn't handle the economy well before 2020?
Trump pretty much didn't handle the economy at all. He sat there firing angry Tweets at people he didn't like, and was lucky enough that things were going well.
 

lil devils x

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I think it's reasonable to focus on history through one's own lens, but...well, I'll put it this way. At one end of the historical spectrum there's whataboutism, and at the other, there's myopia. By the tenets of the former, in this context, any invasion in history could be dismissed as "well, what about X?" By the tenets of the latter, any particular incident/region/group in history could be regarded as being unique, damn global context.

Since we're looking at the Americas, you could dismiss the Spanish invasion of the Aztecs by pointing out that the Aztecs were expansionist themselves, and the only reason Cortez succeeded was that he was able to enlist the help of native tribes who were fed up with their masters. It doesn't wash the conquisitors of their guilt, but it's important to note that the Aztecs weren't pacifists either. The whataboutery position can be used to alleviate the conquisitors of any guilt. The myopic position is to regard them as being uniquely bloodthirsty.

The TL, DR version is that if we look at the last 13,000 years, there's been no shortage of conquests, wars, empires, and all that fun stuff. It's why I'm generally wary of people idealizing the past, or insisting that anarchism is the way to go. The entire human race was effectively anarchists before the advent of agriculture. How do you think they fared against agricultural civilization? And how would agricultural civilization fare against industrial civilization? And how would industrial civilization fare against atomic civilization? Chances are, you don't need to play the Civilization series to imagine it, since we've got examples of all those things bar atomic.
The Spanish didn't just invade the Atzecs, they invaded everyone and often didn't even recognize the difference when they did, nor did they even care. This is literally how little thought they actually had at the time:
"One day, in front of Las Casas, the Spanish dismembered, beheaded, or raped 3000 people. 'Such inhumanities and barbarisms were committed in my sight,' he says, 'as no age can parallel....'The Spanish cut off the legs of children who ran from them. They poured people full of boiling soap. They made bets as to who, with one sweep of his sword, could cut a person in half. They loosed dogs that 'devoured an Indian like a hog, at first sight, in less than a moment.' They used nursing infants for dog food."

Even under most standards of wars and invasions, The Spanish took it well beyond that according to the Spanish themselves. What could possibly lead a people to think that this was acceptable under ANY circumstance? Actually anarcho communism well long existed post agricultural, and often only ceased to exist when they were invaded and killed by essentially what would be considered serial killers in this day and time. They were often invaded by people who attacked unarmed women, children and men who were just going about their daily business not expecting anyone to come along and murder them. That is pretty much what happened to most peaceful civilizations that were not expecting to be murdered by bands of serial killers that were given wealth and elevated status among their own people. Peaceful civilizations didn't elevate serial killers, they stopped them and condemned them, not give them power and tell them to go kill their neighbors.

 

lil devils x

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Vote Democrat and bully them into giving you what you want.
What? Who/what is bullying anyone? I mean Trump is pretty well bullying anyone who isn't white or wealthy right now. Just trying to take care of the American people isn't bullying, it is upholding their sworn oath to look out for the general welfare of the people. It is the federal governments sworn oath to do so. At present, the republican government is in violation of their oaths of office.
 

Houseman

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I was attractive, petite, non dark skinned female. All I had to do was walk in and smile at the cashier at the EZ mart and he would give me complimentary food and drinks .. If I were black, that would not have happened. If I were black, I don't even think my friends Mom would have let me stay with them. As nice as my friends parents were to me, his biological Dad was literally in the KKK. Even though his mom left his Bio Dad, she had to at least have been willing to turn a blind eye to some of his BS to have married him in the first place.
See, now THAT is a relevant contribution. NOW you're talking about how your privilege affected your alleged homeless situation. You got free food and drinks, and you got to stay with your friends mom. Before, all you said was "yeah it sucks".

Though the bits about "I would have had a much harder time if I were black" are merely speculation on your part, except possibly the part about your friend's mom.
For example, did you witness the EZ mart owner chase black homeless people out of his store with a broom, but let you stay for some reason? How do you know he wouldn't have been as nice to everyone as he was with you?
 

lil devils x

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The vaccine distribution, and subsequent economic reconstruction, is the single biggest domestic issue. The economy up to this year has been shaped by the 2008 housing crisis and recovery, and our recovery from this is likewise going to shape just about everything moving forward. And it doesn't just happen with "lel vaccine". There's not much need to look at anything else, for the office of president at least.
The vaccine distribution is only one part of it. If we do not act quickly, we are going to have millions of people homeless very fast due to the eviction crisis. All of Trumps failed polices are coming to a head here. His housing policy has resulted in homelessness increasing every year since he took office after being at it's lowest point in a decade prior to that. Him kicking people off food stamps right before the pandemic meant that the food pantries were already strained, so that when the pandemic hit, they went dry very quickly and now are unable to resupply themselves and people are just doing without entirely now and people are literally starving now due to Trumps actions taken here. Right before the Pandemic hit, Trumps policy on medicaid added premiums the poor could not afford and means they have lost their medicaid as well as people randomly losing insurance because Trump refused to pay subsidies to insurers, when he wins he has promised to make sure the poor lose access to healthcare. THESE things worry me even more so than the vaccine roll out because I know so many who may actually die as a direct result of these policies.

Some may think that an exaggeration or wont happen for some reason, but it really isn't when you look at what has been happening and what he has promised is about to happen when he wins. This is far more uglier than people realize, or seem to be able to wrap their heads around. They have some strange idea that is " alarmist" and refuse to look at the actual actions done here, their direct impact, who has died already as a result and who will not live another 4 years when this happens.

When people claim that it " doesn't matter who you vote for they are just as bad" That is provably false by the sheer numbers of people who literally will suffer and die under Trumps policies if continued. How that " doesn't matter or impact their vote" with anyone is beyond my understanding. Like it is somehow okay if Trump kills friends, family, neighbors through his policies. Like that is somehow just saying " Orange man bad" mocking that like it isn't a big deal. I see first hand what these policies do to people all the time, including my own friends and family. It is like people do not have it really " sink in" until it is their friends and family that will die as a direct result of these policies. I don't know about everyone else here, but mine certainly will. With the sheer severity of the polices, I can't imagine that many here that actually live in the states will not have someone close to them that will share the same fate as my loved ones under these same policies. It really is BS when people try to make it out like it is just the same or it doesn't matter, Their lives SHOULD matter, they do to me and a lot of other people and we have it in our power to stop this from happening if people just wake up and see that.
 

SupahEwok

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The vaccine distribution is only one part of it. If we do not act quickly, we are going to have millions of people homeless very fast due to the eviction crisis. All of Trumps failed polices are coming to a head here. His housing policy has resulted in homelessness increasing every year since he took office after being at it's lowest point in a decade prior to that. Him kicking people off food stamps right before the pandemic meant that the food pantries were already strained, so that when the pandemic hit, they went dry very quickly and now are unable to resupply themselves and people are just doing without entirely now and people are literally starving now due to Trumps actions taken here. Right before the Pandemic hit, Trumps policy on medicaid added premiums the poor could not afford and means they have lost their medicaid as well as people randomly losing insurance because Trump refused to pay subsidies to insurers, when he wins he has promised to make sure the poor lose access to healthcare. THESE things worry me even more so than the vaccine roll out because I know so many who may actually die as a direct result of these policies.
I'll be honest, l'il's: all that bad stuff is irrelevant to the election. Because even if Biden wins, he isn't sworn in until mid-January. Many of the crisis tipping points for those things are gonna hit before he has a chance to do anything.

That's why I chose the phrasing "subsequent economic reconstruction": we are facing an incredible task of rebuilding society after the crash we're still in the middle of plummeting through. Frankly, I don't think Biden's up to it. But I also think that Trump would just continue plummeting in comparison.
 

Houseman

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Listening and reading comprehension is a lot more than what people literally say. It's also about how they say stuff, and sometimes what they don't say.
I dunno, that sounds like giving bias a free reign. Once you get into such ambiguous territory, whatever interpretation you come away with will strongly correlate to how you felt about Trump beforehand. People who see him as the ultimate evil will come away with a negative interpretation, and people who think he is the God Emperor will come away with a positive interpretation.
 

tstorm823

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Listening and reading comprehension is a lot more than what people literally say. It's also about how they say stuff, and sometimes what they don't say.
Agreed 100%. But this is not that occasion. This is a question that was asked of him, and you're treating it as though he was answering a different question entirely. You're taking Trump's words and mannerisms as though they change what Woodward asked, and that's not right.
 

lil devils x

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I'll be honest, l'il's: all that bad stuff is irrelevant to the election. Because even if Biden wins, he isn't sworn in until mid-January. Many of the crisis tipping points for those things are gonna hit before he has a chance to do anything.

That's why I chose the phrasing "subsequent economic reconstruction": we are facing an incredible task of rebuilding society after the crash we're still in the middle of plummeting through. Frankly, I don't think Biden's up to it. But I also think that Trump would just continue plummeting in comparison.
It should be important to the election though. It will take months yes, but you STILL have people trying to hold out during that time as well and will be exhausting their saving,s begging, borrowing and pleading their way to survive until then. It is like giving up on search and rescue and moving on to demolition and rebuilding while there are so many trying to hold on and hope that help is coming. This will be getting worse during the entire time. I understand what you are saying though about the need to focus on rebuilding. Though I STILL have hope that help will come. It will ONLY come at all though if Trump isn't in office. When you look at his actual plans here, the poor will literally die due to having no options left without financial assistance, without food, without shelter, unless they resort to crime to survive. He is forcing them into insanely desperate situations here. I believe there will still be some holding on by a thread and we need to make sure that help comes at some point. Late is still better than never.
 

Agema

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I dunno, that sounds like giving bias a free reign. Once you get into such ambiguous territory, whatever interpretation you come away with will strongly correlate to how you felt about Trump beforehand. People who see him as the ultimate evil will come away with a negative interpretation, and people who think he is the God Emperor will come away with a positive interpretation.
Assuming you've ever witnessed and recognised sarcasm, you'll know tone and so on counts. This leads on to the fact that literalism is as easily itself a form of bias, because the attempt to strip communiaction of its context of tone, circumstances and so on isn't the truth either.

Even then, what someone literally says is often open to ambiguity anyway because communication ain't all that for absolute precision, so people will fish around for ways to manipulate it. Take Donald Trump's announcement that he's proposed his advisors investigate injecting bleach. It is obvious that is what he said, but that didn't stop a load of people looking hard at enough to try to make out that actually he didn't. They want to believe, and so they do - it doesn't matter that it's a hopelessly implausible interpretation.

The bottom line is that anyone who wants to be biased will just be so with whatever they've got. You call them biased, they'll call you biased.
 

lil devils x

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If you are a Black man in NYC you likely remember a period where getting thrown against a wall and searched by a cop was a daily occurrence. In Chicago you could’ve been tortured by police to get a confession as recently as the 90’s at the very least. LA County Sherrif’s deputies have repeatedly formed white supremacist street gangs. Black neighborhoods are dramatically more likely to still have lead paint, including in schools.

To say that the playing field is “racially unbiased” is hilariously inaccurate. Our society has been a formless mess of injustice since day one. There is no repairing this and no return to a nonexistent tabula rasa. There is no reality before the fall of man we can aim to reproduce. The ability to build a more just society lies in our hands, and it isn’t an easy task. But I prefer it to living under the idealistic delusion that any of this is just the way things have to be. There is no natural order to the distribution of human suffering, dignity, merit. It’s a chaotic thing under the influence of innumerable factors, and can always be changed towards something better.
We do have to change AND rebuild, all that doing crazy things like eliminating the police that answer to the people does is send them off to join massive cartels, militias and gangs like the Zetas and now those are the new police and they only answer to themselves. I don't think it was ever " good" or something we would want to go back to instead we have to shape it into something better, The primary problem is we are not holding them accountable to the people and are failing to force reform. It can be done, and has to be done if we ever want this to get better instead of much worse than it already is. We have to keep on it so that we make sure it is done, because as we have seen repeatedly, if we turn a blind eye just to talk about something else for a second they try to put it back to how it was. We have to keep that from happening.
 

ObsidianJones

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If you are a Black man in NYC you likely remember a period where getting thrown against a wall and searched by a cop was a daily occurrence.
I was a Black Man in NYC. I remember it happening less for me than my friends. Why? Because I'm relatively light skinned. I did have cops ask me if my mom was white as sometimes a legitimate question, and sometimes with "We got another Obama over here".

So yup.