Trump's income taxes published by NYT

[Silvanus]

But instead of trying to fix the problem, just call them commies and pretend everything is fine.

The UK government has gone a step further: the new guidelines for schools on implementing the curriculum state that schools "should not in any circumstances use resources produced by organisations that take extreme political stances" ... including "a publicly stated desire to abolish or overthrow [...] capitalism". Even applies if the material itself doesn't express such a position.

So... that includes people like William Morris, or Thomas Paine, then. Y'know, formative thinkers & influential artists.

 

[SilentPony]

Wow. Thats way more money than I thought he paid. Im actually impressed he would cut a check for anything, let alone hundreds of dollars.

 

[Houseman]

Every time this "rich person/company releases tax returns" stuff comes up, everyone always criticises the subject and claims that they should be paying more.

But 99% of the time it's all legal.

These people and companies are smart and just gaming the system in perfectly legal ways.

 

[happyninja42]

Every time this "rich person/company releases tax returns" stuff comes up, everyone always criticises the subject and claims that they should be paying more.

But 99% of the time it's all legal.

These people and companies are smart and just gaming the system in perfectly legal ways.

I don't think anyone is surprised that the people with wealth have rigged the system to legalize them further accumulating wealth. We all SEE it. The problem is that it's not a FAIR system, and we think it's bullshit. To set it up where the majority of the wealth is in your hands, and yet you pay nothing as a result of accumulating that wealth, thus foisting the responsibility onto those beneath you, is an inherently fucked up system. Whether it's "legal" or not, is secondary to it being a pile of shit that shouldn't be at all.

 

[Dalisclock]

This implies they think there is a "problem" that needs to be fixed.

True, it's not a problem for them. It's a problem for the poors and the middle class. The rich are doing just fine.

 

[deleted20220709]

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[Shadyside]

Every time this "rich person/company releases tax returns" stuff comes up, everyone always criticises the subject and claims that they should be paying more.

But 99% of the time it's all legal.

These people and companies are smart and just gaming the system in perfectly legal ways.

We all know it's legal, but it's still pretty gay. I don't have much of a problem with people gaming the system, I just want them to be honest about it. Rather than spouting garbage about how this is going to help the average worker get bigger paychecks.

 

[Dalisclock]

Every time this "rich person/company releases tax returns" stuff comes up, everyone always criticises the subject and claims that they should be paying more.

But 99% of the time it's all legal.

These people and companies are smart and just gaming the system in perfectly legal ways.

Which, as I said above, is why a lot of people, particularly the younger generations, feel capitalism should be reformed, regulated, or failing that, replaced with something more fair to everyone who doesn't have a solid gold toilet in their personally owned skyscraper.

You know, that shit Marx was on about in the 19th century. You either reform Capitalism or you wait till people feel like they have nothing to lose by burning Wall Street to the ground and eating the day traders. Which isn't good for anyone. We already know the latter option doesn't lead to anything good, but since the upper class and their political lackeys are dead-set against any kind of regulations because they'll make slightly less money......

 

[Thaluikhain]

We all know it's legal, but it's still pretty gay.

Pretty gay?

I agree with the sentiment, but that's exactly not how I'd have expressed it.

 

[Exley97]

Every time this "rich person/company releases tax returns" stuff comes up, everyone always criticises the subject and claims that they should be paying more.

But 99% of the time it's all legal.

These people and companies are smart and just gaming the system in perfectly legal ways.

Well, that's part of the issue here -- it may NOT have been all legal. This is just one item from the Times scoop.

"Another common deductible expense for all businesses is legal fees. The I.R.S. requires that these fees be “directly related to operating your business,” and businesses cannot deduct “legal fees paid to defend charges that arise from participation in a political campaign.”

Yet the tax records show that the Trump Corporation wrote off as business expenses fees paid to a criminal defense lawyer, Alan S. Futerfas, who was hired to represent Donald Trump Jr. during the Russia inquiry."

Also....did everyone just kind of memory hole the Donald J. Trump Foundation scandal? The charity was literally shut down by the government because of illegal activity, including tax dodges and self-dealing.

 

[Agema]

This is hilarious - I came across it whilst reading up on his tax returns. This was the original design for Trump's own brand spring water:


I can safely say this is the worst natural spring water label I have ever seen. Firstly, it's a mess. The red flame like effect is absolutely not what I consider with nice, cooling water, nor the city skyline with what I would envisage to be lovely, healthy outdoors, where the blue mixes awkwardly with the red. At the kindest, together with the white letters, I might suggest an allusion to the the US flag. The three fonts clash. And who exactly does want a bottle with Trump staring out at them?

So Trump had a contract with Mountain Spring Waters of America to supply the water. Naturally, following his ever so predictable course, Trump did not pay them. (It ended up settled out of court.)

Later, it was relaunched with a slightly better label.

* * *

These people and companies are smart and just gaming the system in perfectly legal ways.

Trump clearly games the system in illegal ways. He breaks contracts illegally, and attempts to settle out of court or - for smaller companies that can't afford it - simply defrauds them if they can't cover the court costs.

That's why there are virtually no financial insitutions in the USA (or I suspect Europe and the rest of the developed world) who will do business with him, and haven't since the 90s. He's a professional cheat.

 

[Dalisclock]

Also....did everyone just kind of memory hole the Donald J. Trump Foundation scandal? The charity was literally shut down by the government because of illegal activity, including tax dodges and self-dealing.

It's in there with the 20,000 other scandals this administration and he's personally had. When the entire wall is covered with shit, it's hard to remember any particular piece.

Nobody seems to remember Trump Steaks or Trump Airlines or Trump University either, despite Trump University leading to a nakedly racist comment about the judge involved from you know who. So many fucking scams, the biggest one being his presidency, which continually feeds money into his properties and businesses straight from the US tax base.

The amount of open corruption is astounding, but he's rich, his buddy runs the DOJ and he controls the party that controls the Senate that can remove him from office or investigate his shady BS.

 

[Tireseas]

The revelations are damaging for sure. The question is going to be what damaged him the most and whether that will have an affect on the November general election. There's three possible contenders:

1) He paid less in tax than almost every person who makes less than $100,000.00 a year;

2) That he's a terrible businessman overall and is effectively trying to run out the clock on his debts; or

3) The he has so much debt that that factor alone makes him a major national security threat.

Given people are now already voting in some states via mail or early in-person voting, this is potentially quite damaging.

It isn't going to matter as much for the vote, however, Trump lying and misrepresenting his wealth to obtain business contracts for him and his businesses constitutes fraud, which is illegal in the US.

[snipped for length]

So, it should be noted that there is civil fraud, a contract law cause of action, and criminal fraud, which are specific criminal act.

Civil fraud is, in an extremely simplistic way of putting it, the act of a party intentionally making false statements to another party (with the intention that the other party will rely on them) that the party relied on resulting in harm. This is generally a civil matter between two private persons with the primary result (if it goes to judgment) being monetary damages.

Specific kinds of fraud (often but not limited to fraud against the government) can be criminal acts. These generally are specific misrepresentations specified in statute, usually tied to records or reports. Criminal penalties can range from minor fines to serious jail time depending on the circumstances and the aggressiveness of the prosecutor

That Trump committed civil fraud is a given for many at this point (his habit of bilking contractors could very well constitute civil fraud once it became a pattern and practice). Whether he has committed criminal fraud is going to be an open question for many cases, though DAs and AGs across the country are in the process of investigating his finances and business.

 

[ObsidianJones]

You know, it's not even about the taxes any more. We knew there was an issue there. The smoke came from Trump trying to do everything possible to hide his tax returns while calling for his political rivals to always disclose his own. He knew what bombshell there was there. And we also knew this wasn't going to dissuade his voters. They are fully in the cult.

What interests me is that once we have the veneer off... I know interested in what people actually see in him.

It was already public record that he had bankruptcies. But now he has more debt than possibly some small nations would see in a life time. That isn't a successful business man.

He's not smart. You can just listen to him talk and you can tell that.

He actively harms his base. And they love them for it.

Nothing monumental he promised came through. Hillary is still free. Trump has hurt Farmers (who actually did better under Obama, Seniors.Latinos, the Poor, and women

What is the true purpose of his base's loyalty when all he's ever done was fail them and they love him for it? There is nothing left. Not even the lie of him being a great businessman which we all knew was false. He killed 200,000 of our fellow citizens with his Choice, not ineptitude. He's distanced our Allies. He removed any respect the World has had for us. He's soured almost any trade deal of note.

WHAT IS LEFT?! Why the need for this lie of how great he is?! Every MONTH there is a new proof of his harm to this country that I literally forget them all.

There's nothing but a disgusting bloated shell of a man. So why are all these Republicans so eager to crown him king? What is the true reason if he's even falling THEM?

 

[Dalisclock]

You know, it's not even about the taxes any more. We knew there was an issue there. The smoke came from Trump trying to do everything possible to hide his tax returns while calling for his political rivals to always disclose his own. He knew what bombshell there was there. And we also knew this wasn't going to dissuade his voters. They are fully in the cult.

What interests me is that once we have the veneer off... I know interested in what people actually see in him.

It was already public record that he had bankruptcies. But now he has more debt than possibly some small nations would see in a life time. That isn't a successful business man.

He's not smart. You can just listen to him talk and you can tell that.

He actively harms his base. And they love them for it.

Nothing monumental he promised came through. Hillary is still free. Trump has hurt Farmers (who actually did better under Obama, Seniors.Latinos, the Poor, and women

What is the true purpose of his base's loyalty when all he's ever done was fail them and they love him for it? There is nothing left. Not even the lie of him being a great businessman which we all knew was false. He killed 200,000 of our fellow citizens with his Choice, not ineptitude. He's distanced our Allies. He removed any respect the World has had for us. He's soured almost any trade deal of note.

WHAT IS LEFT?! Why the need for this lie of how great he is?! Every MONTH there is a new proof of his harm to this country that I literally forget them all.

There's nothing but a disgusting bloated shell of a man. So why are all these Republicans so eager to crown him king? What is the true reason if he's even falling THEM?

He triggers the libs.

That's literally all that matters to certain people. There are just a ton of them concentrated in his base I daresay it probably makes up a substantial portion of his base. He could nuke every major city in the US with our own nuclear arsenal and such people would be going "SUCK IT LIBS!" There's no principles involved here. It's grievance politics.

 

[Houseman]

1) He paid less in tax than almost every person who makes less than $100,000.00 a year;

2) That he's a terrible businessman overall

If one mostly gets taxed on earnings, and if one is a terrible businessman so that you have negative earnings, then doesn't it make sense that you should pay less taxes than a non-terrible businessman?

I'm not saying that that's what happened here, I'm just saying that, generally, that's how taxes work.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Each time, he requested an extension to file his 1040; and each time, he made the required payment to the I.R.S. for income taxes he might owe — $1 million for 2016 and $4.2 million for 2017. But virtually all of that liability was washed away when he eventually filed, and most of the payments were rolled forward to cover potential taxes in future years.

So Trump apparently has paid more than $750 but that's all he was liable for so the money he did pay rolled forward.

I mean seems more like an issue with the system than a Trump specific one.

I mean Activision actually gets paid by tax payer. As in actual tax money goes to fund Activision while they actually pay $0 in taxes effectively meaning their tax bill is a negative amount each year.

To cancel out the tax bills, Mr. Trump made use of $9.7 million in business investment credits, at least some of which related to his renovation of the Old Post Office hotel, which qualified for a historic-preservation tax break. Although he had more than enough credits to owe no taxes at all, his accountants appear to have carved out an allowance for a small tax liability for both 2016 and 2017.

The records that The Times reviewed square with the way Mr. Trump has repeatedly cited, without explanation, an ongoing audit as grounds for refusing to release his tax returns. He alluded to it as recently as July on Fox News, when he told Sean Hannity, “They treat me horribly, the I.R.S., horribly.”

Also confirming yes he is being audited. So his claim about not being able to release his taxes due to that previously now holds more weight.

 

[Shadyside]

There's nothing but a disgusting bloated shell of a man. So why are all these Republicans so eager to crown him king? What is the true reason if he's even falling THEM?

Republicucks just seem to Like Donald for triggering libcucks.

 

[Kwak]

If one mostly gets taxed on earnings, and if one is a terrible businessman so that you have negative earnings, then doesn't it make sense that you should pay less taxes than a non-terrible businessman?

I'm not saying that that's what happened here, I'm just saying that, generally, that's how taxes work.

Why are you defending this?
Do you have some kind of pathological condition? What would he have to do for you not to defend him?

 

[Dalisclock]

Why are you defending this?
Do you have some kind of pathological condition? What would he have to do for you not to defend him?

I've asked that questions many times. I've yet to get any kind of substantive answer.

It's one of the reasons I've literally stopped responding to certain people in the current events forum. I can only attempt to argue with someone who doesn't live in the same reality before realizing it's not worth the effort.