Netflix facing indictment from Texas grand jury over "Cuties"

[MetalHead]

I would certainly hope not. They shouldn't be there. I don't see what your point is.
What does seeing or not seeing children at a strip club have to do with the morality of approaching the line of obscenity?

The point is you see what you want to see. I watched this movie just to see what all the crying was about and all I saw was an awful movie which I wished I had never watched. The last thing I saw was a bunch of "sexy" females. I saw a bunch of little girls and never once thought anything here was sexy, which obviously you do. That is on you my man.

 

[Houseman]

The point is you see what you want to see.

I'll give you the same challenge I gave lil.

Where is the line drawn?
Given a spectrum of increasingly small upper-body dance outfits for children, where should we stop?
- T-shirts
- Crop tops
- Tube Tops
- Bikini tops (string)
- Even smaller bikini tops (micro)
- see-through tops with or without pasties.
- Pasties
- Nothing

Should children be allowed to dance nude onstage?
If you don't think so, is that just YOUR problem for sexualizing children like a creep? They're just kids being kids dancing and having fun, right? Nothing sexual about it, right? So why not let them dance nude, right?

If you are able to draw a line between one outfit and another, then you have conceded the argument.

 

[MetalHead]

I'll give you the same challenge I gave lil.

Where is the line drawn?
Given a spectrum of increasingly small upper-body dance outfits for children, where should we stop?
- T-shirts
- Crop tops
- Tube Tops
- Bikini tops (string)
- Even smaller bikini tops (micro)
- see-through tops with or without pasties.
- Pasties
- Nothing

Should children be allowed to dance nude onstage?
If you don't think so, is that just YOUR problem for sexualizing children like a creep? They're just kids being kids dancing and having fun, right? Nothing sexual about it, right? So why not let them dance nude, right?

If you are able to draw a line between one outfit and another, then you have conceded the argument.

No obviously nude is taking it too far. There is your line. Tube tops, bikinis whatever, I don't care. I am not looking at 10 year olds like anything other than they are 10. Obviously you see something you like when you look at a 10 year old in a bikini.

 

[Houseman]

You have already conceded.

No obviously nude is taking it too far. There is your line.

Why? There's nothing sexual about kids dancing while nude, is there? Do you look at a nude 10-year-old and see something you like?
(See? This is your argument used against you. See the flaw yet?)

Your point is that we shouldn't stop children from doing things they enjoy, just because creeps will leer at them, and generally, I agree. I just don't think that we should toe that line, especially with children.

If creeps take and distribute close-up pictures of your dance recital featuring 10-year-olds in see-though mesh and/or pasties (which MetalHead is okay with) maybe consider that you're giving creeps easy access to what they want.

 

[lil devils x]

So, I think there's some confusion here.

I don't think anyone denies little girls are enjoying themselves dancing sluttily, I think the issue is that other people are enjoying their dancing in a way that victimizes them. Or at least that's the idea here anyhow. And we generally are against that in the way we have structured our laws.

If we justify any act that a child does that an adult thinks as sexual, simply because the child doesn't see it the same way, you just opened the pandora's box that a bunch of pedos hoped you would. Because, newsflash, pedos can molest kids in ways the kids do not perceive as molestation or even sexual, they can take advantage of the fact that the kids are innocent.

If the only standard is whether a child that doesn't even know all the facets of sexuality yet finds something to be sexual or not, if the rule is that when a child thinks something is innocent it defacto becomes innocent, that opens the door to a lot of bad behavior we do not encourage in our society, and it is in keeping with that way of thinking about this thing to criticize this movie.


Also, a lot more people of this planet grow in places that'd sooner exorcise their girls than have them twerk in front of adults than the opposite. Hell, people get honor-killed for less.

So what you are saying is if pedos fetishizes baseball players, we need to now censor boys baseball because we can't just feed the pedos their choice fetish, so we have to now punish the kids due to the creepy pedos thoughts and actions. Got it.

The boys are not aware how sexy they are in those tight pants to pedos so we have to cover them in burkas now too. Yea, this argument really sucks, you do realize that right? You only see them as being sexual because that is how you view that. That doesn't mean we punish the girls for what you think about them.

 

[Houseman]

You only see them as being sexual because that is how you view that. That doesn't mean we punish the girls for it.

Oh, hey, I just thought of something. This argument reminds me of the "offensive comedy" argument.

So a comic can get on stage and say something that offends a portion of the audience, even though he didn't intend that.
Does his intent matter? Is it the comic's fault for offending people, or is it the audiences fault for getting offended?

Could you say "You only see that joke as being offensive because that is how you view that", like you can say "you only see them as being sexual because that is how you view that"?

If a comic can offend someone with words, couldn't a child also offend someone with how they dress and dance?
When is it "your fault" and when isn't it?

 

[MetalHead]

You have already conceded.



Why? There's nothing sexual about kids dancing while nude, is there? Do you look at a nude 10-year-old and see something you like?
(See? This is your argument used against you. See the flaw yet?)

Your point is that we shouldn't stop children from doing things they enjoy, just because creeps will leer at them, and generally, I agree. I just don't think that we should toe that line, especially with children.

If creeps take and distribute close-up pictures of your dance recital featuring 10-year-olds in see-though mesh and/or pasties (which MetalHead is okay with) maybe consider that you're giving creeps easy access to what they want.

ok fine let them dance nude. I'm not getting excited about it either way.

No, I do not find a little girl sexual in any way but sure there is a decency/common sense line.

And nice try, but where did I say it was ok for creepers to be ogling over pictures? Pedos are pedos. I didn't say it was ok but nice try.

 

[Houseman]

ok fine let them dance nude.

Well then you've made it very easy for pedophiles to get the sorts of content they like. Way to stick it to the pedophiles!

And nice try, but where did I say it was ok for creepers to be ogling over pictures? Pedos are pedos. I didn't say it was ok but nice try.

Apologies, I didn't mean to say that you were okay with people ogling over pictures, I meant to say you were okay with children dancing in mesh and/or pasties.

 

[fOx]

LOL Little princesses are precious and need to know nothing about life so they can ignorantly be taken advantage of because they have no clue how to survive at all right? I was cooking real meals at 4 and changing real babies diapers because that is what sisters do to help take care of their brothers and sisters. I also learned how to operate power tools a round the age of 7 so that by the time I was in middle school I was a master carpenter as well. Girls can and do a lot more than some seem to think here..

Yeah, I'm gonna have to call this one out. It's rather dangerous. You can't claim that the dancing in the film is non sexual when it involves the girls touching and rubbing each others vagineas while practicing twerking. It's clearly *all* meant to be sexual. That's literally the point of the film, since it also puts the girls in various other sexual situations. This is not the same as you practicing ballet or cheerleading. Furthermore, no, it's not healthy. It's good for children to be educated about sex, so that they can practice safe sex practices when they are older. What's not safe is an underage girla displaying herself in a sexually provocative way on stage or, arguably, in film, to an audience of largely adult men. Not everything that is appropriate for adults is appropriate for children. There's a difference between educating children about things they aren't ready to participate in yet, and actually participating. To say otherwise is ridiculous.

 

[MetalHead]

Well then you've made it very easy for pedophiles to get the sorts of content they like. Way to stick it to the pedophiles!



Apologies, I didn't mean to say that you were okay with people ogling over pictures, I meant to say you were okay with children dancing in mesh and/or pasties.

Then take the pedos and string them up by the balls. Should we close all banks because there are bank robbers?

 

[Dreiko]

So what you are saying is if pedos fetishizes baseball players, we need to now censor boys baseball because we can't just feed the pedos their choice fetish, so we have to now punish the kids due to the creepy pedos thoughts and actions. Got it.

The boys are not aware how sexy they are in those tight pants to pedos so we have to cover them in burkas now too. Yea, this argument really sucks, you do realize that right? You only see them as being sexual because that is how you view that. That doesn't mean we punish the girls for what you think about them.

No you don't get it, twerking is not the same as baseball. There was this youtuber who got a prison sentence for getting his underage fans to twerk for him. The two are not comparable, no matter how much little girls may think it's just as innocent.

Baseball, unlike twerking, actually is unsexual, so if you had some pedo find it hot, that'd be them having a weird fetish and not on the boys.

 

[Xprimentyl]

The current discussion (the last few posts) reminded me of the scene below from 1994's "The Professional." An innocent game of charades gets awkward when 12-year-old Matilda dresses up as Marilyn Monroe and sings the infamous birthday song in the same, sensually charged manner Monroe did when she performed it for Kennedy. The scene is awkward because a child imitating a seductress should be awkward, and it shows in Leon's discomfort.

You can recognize inappropriate sexual behavior from a child without feeling sexual urges for the child.

 

[Houseman]

Then take the pedos and string them up by the balls.

For doing what? Taking perfectly legal pictures of a perfectly legal event that has nothing sexual whatsoever about it?

An innocent game of charades gets awkward when 12-year-old Matilda dresses up as Marilyn Monroe and sings the infamous birthday song in the same, sensually charged manner Monroe did when she performed it for Kennedy.

Oh, that explains that scene from Breaking Bad! Thanks!

 

[McElroy]

Evolutionary psychology gets a bad rep for people using their results as go-to pop science explanations for everything. Though fallible as all human beings, I find that the people on that field are smarter than their critics.

snip

It's a value judgment. Children's values are usually simple and dependent on the adults they interact with. After all, the movie's theme is about what sort of values the movie's adults impose on the kids, deliberately or not.

What's not safe is an underage girla displaying herself in a sexually provocative way on stage or, arguably, in film, to an audience of largely adult men. Not everything that is appropriate for adults is appropriate for children.

The audience is as diverse you'd expect a Parisian audience to be in a public park event. I wonder why the rumor of a male or even "mostly white male" audience was spread around in the first place (by critics and others who clearly watched the film).

 

[lil devils x]

Yeah, I'm gonna have to call this one out. It's rather dangerous. You can't claim that the dancing in the film is non sexual when it involves the girls touching and rubbing each others vagineas while practicing twerking. It's clearly *all* meant to be sexual. That's literally the point of the film, since it also puts the girls in various other sexual situations. This is not the same as you practicing ballet or cheerleading. Furthermore, no, it's not healthy. It's good for children to be educated about sex, so that they can practice safe sex practices when they are older. What's not safe is an underage girla displaying herself in a sexually provocative way on stage or, arguably, in film, to an audience of largely adult men. Not everything that is appropriate for adults is appropriate for children. There's a difference between educating children about things they aren't ready to participate in yet, and actually participating. To say otherwise is ridiculous.

Whoever said they were rubbing each others vulvas now? ( the vagina is actually on the inside of our bodies, not outside)
That didn't happen either. Is this sort of like Specters claim that them pounding closed fists on the floor suddenly turned into them giving hand jobs and blow jobs? Yea.
What is ridiculous is all the stuff people keeps making up about this movie. Have you even watched this movie? It doesn't sound like you have. This is about the kids dancing, this isn't about intercourse here. This has nothing to do with sex, it has to do with Dancing. You only see something sexual if you see kids as being sexual. You are projecting your thoughts onto the kids.
Yea, like Kaycee here is now being sexual because she twerks it too?

Of course not, she is one of the best dancers there is.
Hip hop, Ballet, Tap, Teaching her choreography, she is amazing:

Netflix facing indictment from Texas grand jury over "Cuties"

And to make it clear, kids should be free to express themselves and develop their own sexual identity, but displaying that in a live-action movie should be treated with a lot more caution than Cuties appears to be doing. They took a lot of caution (unless the director, producers and casting...

forums.escapistmagazine.com

So when boys slap each other on the butt when they make a home run are they being sexual too? But but.. like butts are used for anal right? Spanking is a fetish, So that suddenly means that smacking butts is sexual too and now.. That is how ridiculous people sound by relating everything to sex. Like OMG people can't bend over anymore either because bending over is clearly about sex because that could be a sexual position too. People REALLY need to stop projecting here. These kids are not strippers, they are not nude, they are not giving lap dances here. They don't deserve to be punished because of what someone else has in their own head, not theirs.

Oh and yes, children need to be taught about sex, but ALSO most importantly about self gratification so they can take care of their own sexual urges and know that is normal and expected so that they don't necessarily feel like they have to have sex with someone else to do so. You don't just teach kids about sex and leave out the most important part about how to handle their urges now. Kids very well need to know about self pleasure so they won't do stupid things in the first place and they don't feel weird or ashamed that they do so.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Oh, that explains that scene from Breaking Bad! Thanks!

Not to derail the conversation, but what scene might that be? I've not watched BB in years.

 

[Houseman]

Not to derail the conversation, but what scene might that be? I've not watched BB in years.

Skyler sings Happy Birthday a la Marylin Monroe to Ted during a birthday party. It was cringy.

I had no idea that this was a reference to anything else before a few minutes ago.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Skyler sings Happy Birthday a la Marylin Monroe to Ted during a birthday party. It was cringy.

Ah, yeah, Monroe's birthday song has been homaged in film/television for decades; Portman's in "The Professional" just felt pertinent to this discussion.

 

[Revnak]

Ah, yeah, Monroe's birthday song has been homaged in film/television for decades; Portman's in "The Professional" just felt pertinent to this discussion.

I assumed you brought it up because it also involves French perverts.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Yea, like Kaycee here is now being sexual because she twerks it too?

Of course not, she is one of the best dancers there is.
Hip hop, Ballet, Tap, Teaching her choreography, she is amazing:

Not going to get into it again as you know well my thoughts from the other thread on this subject, but... yeah, I was uncomfortable watching that; couldn't finish it. She's clearly enjoying herself and is *urk* "good" at what she does, but I wouldn't want my 10-year-old daughter dancing like that. Call me a prude, hell, I'll call myself a prude, but yeah... no.