Misguided good intentions

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tstorm823

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the soft bigotry of low expectations smh
There are not many people in the world who are brick walls, whose opinions and perspectives are shamelessly immovable and uninfluenced by the arguments and behaviors of others, or even by facts or rational thought.
 

Agema

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I will certainly admit, you bring a different tone than a right-winger might, and it's not as simple as a name swap. But if "the right-wingers don't immediately see that difference", that's not necessarily the right-wingers' fault.
I wouldn't define is as a matter of blame, which you seem to imply. It is that we look at the world through our own subjective lenses which colour our perceptions. There are things we notice and think about more than others, matter to us more, that we have a higher sensitivity to. The differences don't even need to be subtle.

One of the things we are all sensitised to, particularly perhaps in internet debate on hot-button topics, is antagonism and ill-will.
 

Casual Shinji

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I'll admit, I don't understand why there is a need for a dutch translation, most europeans are at least somewhat literate in english, and the ones that aren't weren't likely to buy a book of poetry in the first place.
I live in the Netherlands and the level of being versed in english does seem to have gone down in the last decade or so.
 
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Agema

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I live in the Netherlands and the level of being versed in english does seem to have gone down in the last decade or so.
Well, now the UK's fucked off from the EU, this is a fantastic opportunity to install French or German as dominant European language. I mean, you could choose one of the others, but let's face it...
 

Silvanus

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Well, now the UK's fucked off from the EU, this is a fantastic opportunity to install French or German as dominant European language. I mean, you could choose one of the others, but let's face it...
Irish would really piss off the Brexiters, so that gets my vote.

EDIT: Or to be really provocative, Scots Gaelic.
 
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Thaluikhain

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Italian? No, wait, bad idea to get them thinking about when they had an empire and everyone spoke Latin.
 

Agema

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Italian? No, wait, bad idea to get them thinking about when they had an empire and everyone spoke Latin.
I'd better start brushing up as it's been about 30 years... amo amas amat amamus amatis amant.
 
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stroopwafel

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Well, now the UK's fucked off from the EU, this is a fantastic opportunity to install French or German as dominant European language. I mean, you could choose one of the others, but let's face it...
Lmao absolutely not. The Paris/Berlin axis is one of the primary reasons for the aversion against the E.U. France is a grandiloquent relic of faded glory and Gernany is a self-sabotaging guilt complex that both try to push european 'integration' through other countries throat to compensate for their own diminishing relevance.

English is the dominant language in business and global politics that shape the world much more than domestic fault lines. I'd say the E.U. is a necessary evil to compete with countries like China on equal terms and to provide a bulwark against the subversive policies of say Russia who profit greatly from a divided Europe. In economic and strategic considerations ofcourse english is the dominant language but also in terms of cultural affinity the english speaking world will remain to be the center of focus.

Brexit was also a nostalgic longing for the past but ofcourse you can't wind back the clock. We are in competition with gigantic, emerging economies and only a decent power structure can guarantee that remains mutually beneficial. A necessary evil best sustained by the language we all understand: english.
 

Chimpzy

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Some lovely suggestions for the new lingua franca of the EU. Here's mine: Schiermonnikoog Frisian

Spoken by maybe all of 50-100 people. And while we're at it, translate the poem to that too.
 

stroopwafel

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Some lovely suggestions for the new lingua franca of the EU. Here's mine: Schiermonnikoog Frisian

Spoken by maybe all of 50-100 people. And while we're at it, translate the poem to that too.
That's still quite a lot considering no one new has moved there for generations.
 

Agema

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Lmao absolutely not. The Paris/Berlin axis is one of the primary reasons for the aversion against the E.U. France is a grandiloquent relic of faded glory and Gernany is a self-sabotaging guilt complex that both try to push european 'integration' through other countries throat to compensate for their own diminishing relevance.
Actually, when you talk about "dimishing relevance", that is almost exactly part of the French motivation for the EU. Facing inevitably increasing global inconsequentiality after WW2, the UK decided to piggyback on the USA (and hence the lingering Euroskepticism) and France decided to forge a new power bloc which - at least at the time - it could dominate, although Germany eventually surpassed it anyway.

But the thing is, languages are more organic than that. They will naturally flow with power. English has probably already peaked globally. Mandarin will supplant it as lingua franca in the Far East and spreading out further - even potentially to places like Africa and South America. I suspect English will remain sufficiently dominant around the Atlantic. But even still, within the EU, there will be a natural tendency to gravitate to a common, useful language. If the UK remains absent (I think it will rejoin, ultimately) plus the gently widening divide with the US, there is a likelihood English will decline and use of EU languages increase. In the end, Germany as the strongest nation plus Austria, Switzerland, and the Germanic languages of the Low Countries and Scandinavia make it a strong choice, although French has the legacy of having been a major lingua franca, much higher global use, and probably more common in other major countries like Spain and Italy.
 

Schadrach

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Some lovely suggestions for the new lingua franca of the EU. Here's mine: Schiermonnikoog Frisian

Spoken by maybe all of 50-100 people. And while we're at it, translate the poem to that too.
Clearly the only reasonable options are esperanto or lojban.
 

Kwak

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There are not many people in the world who are brick walls, whose opinions and perspectives are shamelessly immovable and uninfluenced by the arguments and behaviors of others, or even by facts or rational thought.
Many studies suggest otherwise.
 

Agema

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stroopwafel

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Actually, when you talk about "dimishing relevance", that is almost exactly part of the French motivation for the EU. Facing inevitably increasing global inconsequentiality after WW2, the UK decided to piggyback on the USA (and hence the lingering Euroskepticism) and France decided to forge a new power bloc which - at least at the time - it could dominate, although Germany eventually surpassed it anyway.

But the thing is, languages are more organic than that. They will naturally flow with power. English has probably already peaked globally. Mandarin will supplant it as lingua franca in the Far East and spreading out further - even potentially to places like Africa and South America. I suspect English will remain sufficiently dominant around the Atlantic. But even still, within the EU, there will be a natural tendency to gravitate to a common, useful language. If the UK remains absent (I think it will rejoin, ultimately) plus the gently widening divide with the US, there is a likelihood English will decline and use of EU languages increase. In the end, Germany as the strongest nation plus Austria, Switzerland, and the Germanic languages of the Low Countries and Scandinavia make it a strong choice, although French has the legacy of having been a major lingua franca, much higher global use, and probably more common in other major countries like Spain and Italy.
English has become dominant primarily also because of soft power like a highly commercial popular culture(espescially songs and movies) that is exported wordwide. I don't see China ever exporting something to a similar extent. Power alone is not enough you need something that resonates among people and American popular culture is still unmatched in that regard. The world is also largely homogenized in terms of international business and economics. You need a language that everyone involved is atleast somewhat literate in not a language that is only useful for native speakers. Even in China's sphere of influence english will remain dominant for the simple fact that communication is otherwise impossible. Chinese employees in international business even 'Americanize' their name to make it easier to pronounce. China has absolutely zero interest to export it's culture the way America has done now for decades. And even if it did, I doubt it would have the same kind of appeal. The extent of their ambition is really to consolidate it's economic and security interests. For this you need integration in the global world order that the Chinese economy is also dependent on. Not just China but the entire worldwide economy. And the language of globalization is also, you guessed it, english.