1 button nade tossing has to stop in online multiplayer

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I've played games where there was only one button to cycle between more than two options and it's horrible every time. Let's say I see a group of enemies huddled together, and want to throw a grenade. I hit the button to switch from my assault rifle to grenades, throw it, and then they all roll away because the grenades in Uncharted have terrible blast radius. Now, I want to pull out my assault rifle to shoot them. I press the button, only to have my pistol come up. Well that isn't helpful, I think to myself while getting shot multiple times. I'll press the button yet again, to pull out the weapon I want. Only to find out I've been dead for a few seconds due to a horrifically clunky control scheme.

That scenario wouldn't happen if it's implemented properly. In MGO, you are allowed to customize your slots (you have 3 weapon slots for quick select); Slot 1 for me is my primary, Slot 2 is my secondary, and Slot 3 is my support item (you only get one support item when you spawn consisting of grenades (normal, smoke, stun, enemy locators, etc.) and traps (claymores, C4, sleeping gas mines, magazines, etc.)). Having your slot setup with primary, then grenades, and then secondary is flawed as you have just noted in your example. In MGO, I run around with grenades (Slot 3) in my hand because you run faster and I can quickly throw a nade when I need to. Then, if I want to switch to my primary, it is a quick button press away (Slot 3 to Slot 1). Running around with grenades out does make sense as you are normally trying to take an objective point or certain spot on the map so you throw nades to keep your enemy from trying to get to said spot before you. If I'm using my primary, run out of bullets, and don't have time to reload, I tap R2 to switch to my secondary to try to get the kill and stay alive. Rarely do you need to go from secondary to primary because you went to your secondary because you ran out of bullets with your primary. Going from primary to grenades is more commonplace, but it is also pretty damn quick as well as you just have to double click R2 (which is like a millisecond slower than tapping it once) and you do get used to you slot setup as you play and switching 2 slots at a time becomes second nature.

Watch this video. It's a fake news video from the Onion about a laptop with no keyboard, only one button. One button for all the functions of a keyboard. On an admittedly smaller scale, that's what you are proposing. Rather than have every possible option no more than a button press away, you're making necessary weapons several presses away, and after all that there's still an unused button. What could that be used for, I wonder? Maybe, throwing grenades?

I do agree that once you go past 3 slots to 4 or more slots in my weapon cycle control scheme, it becomes clunky similar to how typing with no keyboard sucks. With my Slot setup in MGO, I do lose the ability to knife (as I choose putting my secondary in Slot 2 instead of the knife). However, the only way to really knife in a normal game mode is grab an enemy, throw them down, and then knife them. And, I can do that with a pistol anyways; slam down plus pistol is effectively the same thing and it gives me the same close-quarters combat option as the knife does. The knife has the added bonus of being able to stun (put the enemy to sleep) that I miss with the pistol though.

Most shooters nowadays allow for primary, secondary, and grenades so the 3 slot weapon cycle system fits perfectly with most modern shooters.

 

[Mr. 47]

Welcome to Uncharted, the Mecca of cheap kills.
Hell. In Uncharted 2, there was a perk the DROPED A GRENADE FOR YOU WHEN YOU DIED. :|

Does have to stop, that's my favorite part of TF2, no grenades.

 

[SMR]

Dodge the grenade, its that simple.

 

[Dr. Feelgood]

I agree with you, games with powerful grenades shouldn't have 1bnt. I honestly don't know what everyone else is going on about, it's a good game mechanic. Not only does it help stop people from pulling miracles out of there asses, but grenades as well.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Dodge the grenade, its that simple.

I can dodge them, it looks stupid when 2 people upon seeing each both throw nades instead of shoot each other in a game that's a SHOOTER. I've gotten really good at the beta, and when I get certain kinds of grenade kills it just feels cheap. Also, sometimes a nade explodes way too soon and it's impossible to dodge, and you can't cook nades in the game.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

I've played games where there was only one button to cycle between more than two options and it's horrible every time. Let's say I see a group of enemies huddled together, and want to throw a grenade. I hit the button to switch from my assault rifle to grenades, throw it, and then they all roll away because the grenades in Uncharted have terrible blast radius. Now, I want to pull out my assault rifle to shoot them. I press the button, only to have my pistol come up. Well that isn't helpful, I think to myself while getting shot multiple times. I'll press the button yet again, to pull out the weapon I want. Only to find out I've been dead for a few seconds due to a horrifically clunky control scheme.

That scenario wouldn't happen if it's implemented properly. In MGO, you are allowed to customize your slots (you have 3 weapon slots for quick select); Slot 1 for me is my primary, Slot 2 is my secondary, and Slot 3 is my support item (you only get one support item when you spawn consisting of grenades (normal, smoke, stun, enemy locators, etc.) and traps (claymores, C4, sleeping gas mines, magazines, etc.)). Having your slot setup with primary, then grenades, and then secondary is flawed as you have just noted in your example. In MGO, I run around with grenades (Slot 3) in my hand because you run faster and I can quickly throw a nade when I need to. Then, if I want to switch to my primary, it is a quick button press away (Slot 3 to Slot 1). Running around with grenades out does make sense as you are normally trying to take an objective point or certain spot on the map so you throw nades to keep your enemy from trying to get to said spot before you. If I'm using my primary, run out of bullets, and don't have time to reload, I tap R2 to switch to my secondary to try to get the kill and stay alive. Rarely do you need to go from secondary to primary because you went to your secondary because you ran out of bullets with your primary. Going from primary to grenades is more commonplace, but it is also pretty damn quick as well as you just have to double click R2 (which is like a millisecond slower than tapping it once) and you do get used to you slot setup as you play and switching 2 slots at a time becomes second nature.

Watch this video. It's a fake news video from the Onion about a laptop with no keyboard, only one button. One button for all the functions of a keyboard. On an admittedly smaller scale, that's what you are proposing. Rather than have every possible option no more than a button press away, you're making necessary weapons several presses away, and after all that there's still an unused button. What could that be used for, I wonder? Maybe, throwing grenades?

I do agree that once you go past 3 slots to 4 or more slots in my weapon cycle control scheme, it becomes clunky similar to how typing with no keyboard sucks. With my Slot setup in MGO, I do lose the ability to knife (as I choose putting my secondary in Slot 2 instead of the knife). However, the only way to really knife in a normal game mode is grab an enemy, throw them down, and then knife them. And, I can do that with a pistol anyways; slam down plus pistol is effectively the same thing and it gives me the same close-quarters combat option as the knife does. The knife has the added bonus of being able to stun (put the enemy to sleep) that I miss with the pistol though.

Most shooters nowadays allow for primary, secondary, and grenades so the 3 slot weapon cycle system fits perfectly with most modern shooters.

MGO =/= Uncharted. If you like MGO so much, then play MGO. Uncharted controls are fine, there's no need to do any of this.

 

[Gabriel Dragulia]

I think the problem here is console vs pc-gaming.
If you're on pc (one game I take in mind now is Return to castle wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, just online play, really simple, and fun.) you have the option of using the number keys above the letters to switch weapons. no scrolling through your weapons, you know where the grenade is, you only have to click the correct number, shoot once, and click back for the normal weapon. this can happen at really fast speeds if you play regularly.

Now, console gaming... you don't have those buttons, the numbers to quickly switch to grenades and back to your normal weapon. so having to scroll through all the weapons to get to your grenades, takes quite a bit of time (and then there's the chance that you press the scroll button once too make, having to scroll back again, taking up a lot of time)... in a fast paced shooter, where's the logic in that? running around an open area, trying to scroll through your weapons to find the one you want to use? it doesn't work properly.

using a keyboard to switch weapons with the number keys is basically as fast, as on a console pulling the left trigger or right bumper or whatever to throw your grenade. it takes just as much time to throw the grenade and switch back to your normal weapon, as you would throw a grenade, press '1' on your keyboard (while throwing, so after the throw you would automatically switch back to your main weapon) and then run around with your gun again.

I think 1BNT isn't a problem, it's a perfectly reasonable compromise to work with the limits that pc-gamers don't have that much.

 

[Saltyk]

To be perfectly honest... I just don't like grenades. Most multiplayer shooters would be improved simply by removing them. Except maybe flash grenades, because those do have tactical uses, but for the most part, grenades simply act to make a game messier. Ideally, they'd be used in special circumstances strategically, but we all know that's not the case in reality.

I know what you're talking about. In a game of MAG, I took an objective single handed. I the held the position from the inevitable, and small, counter attack killing about 3 people due to the element of surprise and superior skill. Next thing I knew they threw some 4 grenades in to kill me. What makes it worse was that even if there were others with me, we would have all likely been wiped out. This annoyed me because they didn't out fight me or flank me or anything. They just spammed so many grenades that I couldn't avoid them all.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Welcome to Uncharted, the Mecca of cheap kills.
Hell. In Uncharted 2, there was a perk the DROPED A GRENADE FOR YOU WHEN YOU DIED. :|

Does have to stop, that's my favorite part of TF2, no grenades.

there are multiple shooters that do that, COD being one of the most prevalent of them all..


and actually thats why i play the demo man all the time, i absolutely love dominating with the grenade launcher, most of the time people wont get a single shot off on me because i bounce them around corners/off ceilings like a boss.

To be perfectly honest... I just don't like grenades. Most multiplayer shooters would be improved simply by removing them. Except maybe flash grenades, because those do have tactical uses, but for the most part, grenades simply act to make a game messier. Ideally, they'd be used in special circumstances strategically, but we all know that's not the case in reality.

I know what you're talking about. In a game of MAG, I took an objective single handed. I the held the position from the inevitable, and small, counter attack killing about 3 people due to the element of surprise and superior skill. Next thing I knew they threw some 4 grenades in to kill me. What makes it worse was that even if there were others with me, we would have all likely been wiped out. This annoyed me because they didn't out fight me or flank me or anything. They just spammed so many grenades that I couldn't avoid them all.

well its good to see your opposition isn't retarded, grenades are a basic function of most shooters, and if they lobbed some in, especially on an "objective" then good for them, it just sucks to be you in that case because your refusing to move from your spot.

 

[SMR]

Dodge the grenade, its that simple.

I can dodge them, it looks stupid when 2 people upon seeing each both throw nades instead of shoot each other in a game that's a SHOOTER. I've gotten really good at the beta, and when I get certain kinds of grenade kills it just feels cheap. Also, sometimes a nade explodes way too soon and it's impossible to dodge, and you can't cook nades in the game.

Still, if you actually die from a grenade, its you're fault for not moving, and if you know its going to happen, you should plan accordingly

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

MGO =/= Uncharted. If you like MGO so much, then play MGO. Uncharted controls are fine, there's no need to do any of this.

I don't get how you feel changing the control scheme slightly makes one game into another. I guess most FPSs are the same exact game then because a large percentage of them share the same exact control scheme. MGO is a game I play rather seriously and get competitive, Uncharted is a game I play for pure fun. I just explained how much it sucks that I have to stop moving to switch to my secondary in Uncharted, that's bad controls for a arcade-y and unrealistic shooter, plain and simple. I don't see why triangle alone (instead of having to press L1 + triangle) can't switch to my secondary (so then I wouldn't have to take my thumb off the left stick).

Still, if you actually die from a grenade, its you're fault for not moving, and if you know its going to happen, you should plan accordingly

Not if the grenade explodes before it's supposed to and you literally can't dodge it. It's like saying it's someone's fault for blowing of their hand with a grenade when it explodes the second they removed the pin.

 

[Pedro The Hutt]

Except in video games grenades never go off before they're supposed to. =p It might mean the player cooked the grenade which is just a sign he knows what he's doing rather than it being "cheap". You should always circle strafe anyhow.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Except in video games grenades never go off before they're supposed to. =p It might mean the player cooked the grenade which is just a sign he knows what he's doing rather than it being "cheap". You should always circle strafe anyhow.

You don't cook grenades in Uncharted.

 

[Zer_]

honestly, without it grenades are underpowered.

I think grenades are underpowered in games because they don't do enough damage. You could just go for realism by having a switch time and greater damage, which would be an alternate way to balance it. It's all about the system that involves less random grenade deaths while keeping grenades actually useful, IMO.

No, they aren't. You use grenades to throw it around a corner. Just look at Counter-Strike.

 

[SMR]

MGO =/= Uncharted. If you like MGO so much, then play MGO. Uncharted controls are fine, there's no need to do any of this.

I don't get how you feel changing the control scheme slightly makes one game into another. I guess most FPSs are the same exact game then because a large percentage of them share the same exact control scheme. MGO is a game I play rather seriously and get competitive, Uncharted is a game I play for pure fun. I just explained how much it sucks that I have to stop moving to switch to my secondary in Uncharted, that's bad controls for a arcade-y and unrealistic shooter, plain and simple. I don't see why triangle alone (instead of having to press L1 + triangle) can't switch to my secondary (so then I wouldn't have to take my thumb off the left stick).

Still, if you actually die from a grenade, its you're fault for not moving, and if you know its going to happen, you should plan accordingly

Not if the grenade explodes before it's supposed to and you literally can't dodge it. It's like saying it's someone's fault for blowing of their hand with a grenade when it explodes the second they removed the pin.

That would be their fault for not understanding their equipment, and its still your fault if you're hit, you were in the explosion radius, don't blame the grenade for your own lack of skill.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

MGO =/= Uncharted. If you like MGO so much, then play MGO. Uncharted controls are fine, there's no need to do any of this.

I don't get how you feel changing the control scheme slightly makes one game into another. I guess most FPSs are the same exact game then because a large percentage of them share the same exact control scheme. MGO is a game I play rather seriously and get competitive, Uncharted is a game I play for pure fun. I just explained how much it sucks that I have to stop moving to switch to my secondary in Uncharted, that's bad controls for a arcade-y and unrealistic shooter, plain and simple. I don't see why triangle alone (instead of having to press L1 + triangle) can't switch to my secondary (so then I wouldn't have to take my thumb off the left stick).

Still, if you actually die from a grenade, its you're fault for not moving, and if you know its going to happen, you should plan accordingly

Not if the grenade explodes before it's supposed to and you literally can't dodge it. It's like saying it's someone's fault for blowing of their hand with a grenade when it explodes the second they removed the pin.

Yes, Uncharted doesn't have perfect controls. However, what you proposed turns them from "Near Perfect" to "Absolutely Horrible". And for every single point you've made in this debate, you used MGO as your example. "Well, it works in MGO, so clearly it should work in every game". You seem to want Uncharted to be MGO with jumping, except that that rather blatantly isn't anything like Uncharted.

If the grenade explodes before it's supposed to, that means they cooked it. The entire time they were cooking it was time they were vulnerable and you could be shooting them. Also, by that logic, sneaking up on people should be banned, because there was no way they could of avoided it and it wasn't their fault for dying.

I really don't understand your argument. Grenades in Uncharted have a small blast radius, and low damage. You don't start with very many. They glow and beep when thrown, and if the person takes the time to aim then they're vulnerable. You have a roll button, which rolls you outside the blast radius with ease. Unless they actually gave you health there could not be a way to have a shittier grenade, and yet it's necessary to butcher the control scheme to nerf them?

 

[MercurySteam]

I recall that the Halo: Reach Beta had the same issue. Dropping a 'nade just as you were killed was almost a guaranteed way to score a kill, but I'm pretty sure they fixed it in the full game. I'm fairly certain that the Uncharted 3 devs can do the same.

 

[SovietPanda]

simple solution; go out and make your own game with your super awesome well thought out control scheme. see how well it sells.

few questions.
1) why is it better to remove the ease of pressing one button rather then fixing the behavior of the grenade.

2)What game mechanics are you suggesting we create to utilise this now freed up shoulder button, i'll gladly cycle to my grenades in every game if L1 is a jetpack in every game.

3)isnt your point about having a no win in a gunfight redundant because each firefight is only a 5 second part of the match... noone wins till the timers up, if you get a kill and die at the same time thats fair, you overcommitted you died but atleast you took the other sucker out too

4) If this is such a big deal for you... go play something else more suited to your play style... i get the feeling you may enjoy MGO

EDIT: on a serious note maybe you should have a look at brink... 1button grenade toss and unlimited supply however there is a significant cooldown period so yea you can toss one out in a pinch but you better not want to do it again too soon. Also i know the regening health side of this argument has been dropped but brink also gets that right in my opinion an reading this thread just the way you want it, regen only fills the main bar, however class upgrades, medic buffs and health command posts owned by your team can add extra segments you get shot almost to death and duck for cover and you heal but say goodbye to your extra health

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Yes, Uncharted doesn't have perfect controls. However, what you proposed turns them from "Near Perfect" to "Absolutely Horrible". And for every single point you've made in this debate, you used MGO as your example. "Well, it works in MGO, so clearly it should work in every game". You seem to want Uncharted to be MGO with jumping, except that that rather blatantly isn't anything like Uncharted.

If the grenade explodes before it's supposed to, that means they cooked it. The entire time they were cooking it was time they were vulnerable and you could be shooting them. Also, by that logic, sneaking up on people should be banned, because there was no way they could of avoided it and it wasn't their fault for dying.

I really don't understand your argument. Grenades in Uncharted have a small blast radius, and low damage. You don't start with very many. They glow and beep when thrown, and if the person takes the time to aim then they're vulnerable. You have a roll button, which rolls you outside the blast radius with ease. Unless they actually gave you health there could not be a way to have a shittier grenade, and yet it's necessary to butcher the control scheme to nerf them?

I use MGO as an example because it does so many things right, and it does do things wrong as well like leveling skills is poorly done and the netcode is bad. MGO has deep player customization options that barely any shooters have. Brink focused on player customization and you can't even play as a female, in MGO you can and MGO did that 3 years ago. Player customization doesn't effect gameplay, and it's something most shooters should have. The SOP system in MGO where teammates can link up and share skills while being able to see exactly where all your teammates are is a great way to encourage and allow for teamwork. No other game has "borrowed" that mechanic like how every game borrowed perks from COD. MGO has a mode called Survival where you join or create a team and battle other teams in various game modes and maps on DEDICATED SERVERS during select times so you can battle the top teams in the community without having to go to a place like GameBattles and set up a match. Survival would be a mode that would be great in any online competitive game (shooter or non-shooter) and it doesn't change up gameplay in anyway. Also, without dedicated servers, no match in any game is fair as you always have a player (the player host) playing with a 0 ping, that's incredibly unfair to all the other players.

I said in a few posts earlier that a weapon cycle system probably wouldn't work if the shooter had more than 3 weapons to switch to. So, in shooters where you don't have the normal primary, secondary, and grenade setup, weapon cycling would be a bad idea so just because it works in MGO doesn't mean it works with every game. I just think you never played a game with a good weapon cycle system (MGO and MAG do) or you just never gave it enough time to get used to it. Some things just take some time to get used to. The 1st time I played a FPS on a dual stick controller, I hated it, it's not that the controls were bad, I just wasn't used to them. MGO and Uncharted play extremely differently and slightly changing the control scheme doesn't make them the same game. I'm not demanding that Uncharted add in the ability to put enemies to sleep, make headshots one-hit kills, and a lot of other things that are in MGO because those are the things that make MGO MGO. Another thing I think almost all online games should have is a lobby/room system instead of just matchmaking (which I hate); a lobby/room system doesn't change gameplay in anyway. MGO has both game rooms and matchmaking, why can't other games?

I should be able to switch to my secondary as I'm moving. Having triangle alone change from primary to secondary and vice verse would accomplish that and so would using a weapon cycle system. They both accomplish the same thing, and I bet you'd be fine with triangle switching your primary and secondary.

I don't think you can cook grenades in Uncharted. If you can, then I take back my complaint.

You don't need to take time and aim grenades in Uncharted; you either position the camera correctly and tap L2 or you throw a grenade while aiming with a gun (which shouldn't be allowed in an online multiplayer environment). I'm not trying to nerf the grenade, you just shouldn't be able to throw a nade as you are losing a gunfight or while aiming a gun. I think the grenade blast radius is too small (it is really small) and needs a bit of an increase. I, myself, get too many cheap grenade kills as I am about to die.

2)What game mechanics are you suggesting we create to utilise this now freed up shoulder button, i'll gladly cycle to my grenades in every game if L1 is a jetpack in every game.

3)isnt your point about having a no win in a gunfight redundant because each firefight is only a 5 second part of the match... noone wins till the timers up, if you get a kill and die at the same time thats fair, you overcommitted you died but atleast you took the other sucker out too

EDIT: on a serious note maybe you should have a look at brink... 1button grenade toss and unlimited supply however there is a significant cooldown period so yea you can toss one out in a pinch but you better not want to do it again too soon. Also i know the regening health side of this argument has been dropped but brink also gets that right in my opinion an reading this thread just the way you want it, regen only fills the main bar, however class upgrades, medic buffs and health command posts owned by your team can add extra segments you get shot almost to death and duck for cover and you heal but say goodbye to your extra health

2) I'm not a game designer or developer, obviously, so coming up with new game mechanics isn't something I'm good at. Even game developers aren't that good are coming up with new cool mechanics IMO as not many new games excite me because of the lack of new mechanics. In MGO, you can aim in 1st-person mode and lean left and right to avoid bullets and correct your aim. FPS leaning is something every FPS should have but none of them do. You can grab enemies in MGO to put them to sleep, scan them (and expose their whole team), use them as a shield, plant C4 on them, etc. I think adding close-quarters combat to more shooters would be a good idea. It's just simple logic that if you have more buttons available, you can allow the player more actions in-game.

3) If you are in a gunfight and you realize you are losing and going to die, you shouldn't be able to chuck a nade at the player at the last second and get the kill; either the health shouldn't be so great to enable that or you shouldn't be able to throw a nade as you are shooting (Uncharted has both of those traits). If two people see each other and one decides to nade while the other decides to shoot, that's fine. You shouldn't be able to do both.

Brink looks interesting to me but I'm still playing MGO weekly and I would also like to get into MAG. I read that nades are one-hit kills in Brink, which I think is a great thing. I say give players more nades while making them not kill in one-hit, it does work great in MGO. Of course, that wouldn't work in a realistic shooter but I see reason why nades need to kill in one-hit in non-realistic shooters, they still would preform the same function.

 

[GeneWard]

I personally like having to take out the grenade before you throw it, but I don't think "1BNT" breaks games, it just sort of streamlines the interface. I think it's a personal preference and not a game breaker.