1st vs. 3rd Person: Let's Brainstorm!

[SomethingGiant]

I was talking with some friends about the advantages/disadvantages of each POV and choosing between the two was nigh impossible. Let's try to squeeze this topic dry. Here's the list so far...

1st Person Advantages
-Natural projectile weapon use (guns, bows, etc.)
-Most like real human vision on paper
-You don't know what's behind you. Awesome for scary games/levels. [Spectrum_Prez]
-Longer and less obstructed line of sight.[Spectrum_Prez]

Disadvantages
-No body awareness (pretty much all 1st person's problems stem from this)
-Limited FOV (no peripheral vision)
-More difficult platforming [GoWithDAFro]

3rd Person Advantages
-Full body awareness
-Close to realistic field of vision*
-Natural melee implement use (Bats, swords, etc.)

Disadvantages
*-Unrealistic sight around corners
-Slightly awkward projectile weapon use
-Camera clipping

Suggest more if you can.

The issue of 3rd person's unrealistic sight around corners puzzles me especially. How would you fix it?

 

[GoWithDAFro]

1st person has more difficult platforming, 3rd person has less connection to character during gameplay. I don't really know how you could fix cornersight without there being a really awkward block on the screen

 

[Nargleblarg]

I would fix the sight around corners by implementing a fog of war type feature like in RTSs. If it isn't in sight it's a hazy shadow.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

well the whole unrealistic sights around corners, its not like both players dont have it, so i dont consider it a disadvantage

I would fix the sight around corners by implementing a fog of war type feature like in RTSs. If it isn't in sight it's a hazy shadow.

although this isn't a bad idea, i'd have to see it actually implemented to give it a thumbs up or down though.

 

[Spectrum_Prez]

A disadvantage of 1st person view is the bad melee combat options. Just play Oblivion and you'll know what I mean. The only game to have done 1st melee even half well was Zeno Clash.

Advantages of 1st Person:
-You don't know what's behind you. Awesome for scary games/levels.
-Longer and less obstructed line of sight. 3PV is usually slightly above the head which means you'll be looking a little downwards the whole time. In FPV, you get to see farther and also get to see more sky. This might not matter in a corridor shooter, but in an open-world game it makes a HUGE difference. Seeing the sunrise in FPV in a game like Fallout 3 is really something.
-Easier to feel as if you ARE the character, rather than just controlling the character. This might be subjective and is obviously also affected by a whole host of other factors, but I think it's true.

 

[viranimus]

I say dont bother with fixing 3rd person because 3rd person is just a means to an end. The technology exists. Fix first person and start (at least for PC gaming) supporting wide screen formats that can be stretched across 3 monitors in order to create peripheral vision.

 

[Irridium]

3rd person.

Because then I can actually see my feet. Yes some FPS games let me see my feet in first person, but too few do. Not really game-breaking, at all, but it still annoys the hell out of me.

Plus head-bob and lens-flare are annoying as fuck. Why am I getting a lens-flare when I'm not wearing any glasses or a helmet?!

 

[ShatterPalm]

1st person certainly works for shooters, but it can't work anywhere else. Except maybe a horror game, because fps's a usually a lot more suspesnful than their 3rd person counter parts. 3rd person, by comparison, gives you faster reflexes for combat and such, as well as making platforming much easier. In return, the atmosphere has to be top notch to really up the suspense.

So here's the break down.

1st person
Pros:
-better atmosphere (usually)
Cons:
-worse reflexes
-limited uses

3rd Person
Pros:
-Faster reflexes, thus better gameplay
Cons:
-Not as good atmosphere (usually)
-distance controls (guns, bows, etc) not usually as good.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

I say dont bother with fixing 3rd person because 3rd person is just a means to an end. The technology exists. Fix first person and start (at least for PC gaming) supporting wide screen formats that can be stretched across 3 monitors in order to create peripheral vision.

if you really want true peripheral vision then you need screens above and below your main screen, because if your telling me you can't see your feet/the ground in front of your feet from your main view, then you are either a freaking large giant or you have horrible vision. so no, i really hope 3rd person doesn't end anytime soon.

OT: another problem with third person though is getting the camera angle right, especially indoors, a lot of companies have such huge problems with this...then you end up getting raped because the camera is glitch stuck in the fucking ceiling =\

 

[Outright Villainy]

A disadvantage of 1st person view is the bad melee combat options. Just play Oblivion and you'll know what I mean. The only game to have done 1st melee even half well was Zeno Clash.

Advantages of 1st Person:
-You don't know what's behind you. Awesome for scary games/levels.
-Longer and less obstructed line of sight. 3PV is usually slightly above the head which means you'll be looking a little downwards the whole time. In FPV, you get to see farther and also get to see more sky. This might not matter in a corridor shooter, but in an open-world game it makes a HUGE difference. Seeing the sunrise in FPV in a game like Fallout 3 is really something.
-Easier to feel as if you ARE the character, rather than just controlling the character. This might be subjective and is obviously also affected by a whole host of other factors, but I think it's true.

I'd agree with these points.

First person really adds a sense of immersion for me.

3rd person works better in racing and platform games unanimously, but in most games I prefer a first person perspective.

 

[Raven_Operative]

One way to fix the peripheral vision problem with First Person Mode, is to use concave TVs,

Spoiler

or

Spoiler

that is really my only problem with FP mode, I find it far more immersive than 3P mode.

 

[SomethingGiant]

1st person has more difficult platforming, 3rd person has less connection to character during gameplay. I don't really know how you could fix cornersight without there being a really awkward block on the screen

What do you mean by "connection to character"?

I would fix the sight around corners by implementing a fog of war type feature like in RTSs. If it isn't in sight it's a hazy shadow.

This is one of the first things I thought of too. I would love to see it implemented even as a proof-of-concept test.

well the whole unrealistic sights around corners, its not like both players dont have it, so i dont consider it a disadvantage

If one player is 1m away from a corner and the other is 10m away, the first player gains a huge advantage. It's unrealistic anyways, which might hurt immersiveness, but I wouldn't be comfortable laying confident judgment without controlled testing.

Plus head-bob and lens-flare are annoying as fuck. Why am I getting a lens-flare when I'm not wearing any glasses or a helmet?!

You bring up an interesting point with head-bob, actually. Although our heads do bob while moving IRL, our brains correct this on the fly so that we don't get dizzy. Artificial head-bobbing is distracting and doesn't recreate any natural human experience.

 

[Outright Villainy]

One way to fix the peripheral vision problem with First Person Mode, is to use concave TVs,

Spoiler

or

Spoiler

that is really my only problem with FP mode, I find it far more immersive than 3P mode.

Not much to say, except DO WANT!

 

[SomethingGiant]

One way to fix the peripheral vision problem with First Person Mode, is to use concave TVs,

Spoiler

or

Spoiler

that is really my only problem with FP mode, I find it far more immersive than 3P mode.

By His sweet noodly appendages, that's beautiful!

 

[Ih8pkmn]

3rd person has less connection to character during gameplay.

I object to this statement. Red Dead Redemption is a third person game, but I felt very connected to John Marston during the gameplay.


OT:
The seeing around corners thing is kind of silly. I think I would make it so that the camera followed your gun/weapon during combat sequences instead of your body. I wonder how that would work out...

 

[Vault101]

I always prefer 3rd person veiws, I like to be able to see the charachter

 

[Spectrum_Prez]

3rd person works better in racing and platform games unanimously, but in most games I prefer a first person perspective.

You clearly have never played Mirror's Edge. That game is the first platformer I ever liked. And possibly the last. Doing the time trials was so much fun.

 

[Amethyst Wind]

A disadvantage of 1st person view is the bad melee combat options. Just play Oblivion and you'll know what I mean. The only game to have done 1st melee even half well was Zeno Clash.

Advantages of 1st Person:
-You don't know what's behind you. Awesome for scary games/levels.
-Longer and less obstructed line of sight. 3PV is usually slightly above the head which means you'll be looking a little downwards the whole time. In FPV, you get to see farther and also get to see more sky. This might not matter in a corridor shooter, but in an open-world game it makes a HUGE difference. Seeing the sunrise in FPV in a game like Fallout 3 is really something.
-Easier to feel as if you ARE the character, rather than just controlling the character. This might be subjective and is obviously also affected by a whole host of other factors, but I think it's true.

I'd agree with these points.

First person really adds a sense of immersion for me.

3rd person works better in racing and platform games unanimously, but in most games I prefer a first person perspective.

Strangely enough it's the opposite for me. First person works against immersion for the most part (not all the time, some games do it well, most don't) because it tries to give the idea that YOU are the one in these situations, however my inquisitive nature always gets in the way of that by subconsciously asking "why am I doing these things? I wouldn't be in this situation".

3rd person view makes more sense to me as the established characters WOULD be in that situation, and I'm watching that, and it's my job to move the characters to keep the story going without delay.

I suppose I'm more ready to accept a complete world and its people than a pseudo-second world for my eyes, if that makes sense.

 

[SomethingGiant]

Oh! Camera clipping is also a big problem in 3rd person. Thoughts on this?