236: Gordon Freeman, Private Eye

[Eatbrainz]

Well whats not cool about a physicist armed with a crowbar beating down aliens and soldiers?

 

[ASnogarD]

To be honest, it wasnt the story that kept my intrest in HL 1 or 2 , or even Portal.
I was more intrigued by the environments that these games played in, they were intresting and kept me looking for more equally intresting environments... each of the 3 I mention had a knack of changing the level/environment just as you got used to one.
The major trick they did right was to not just change it for its own sake, but to ensure the changes flowed and the player never got jarred from one environment to another.

The story was pretty good, but not the reason HL 1 ..or the others did so well... in my opionion anyways.

 

[oliveira8]

What!? Half-Life 2 had tons of fucking exposition!

Or have you people totally forgotten about those ten-minute stretches where all you do is listen (or not, because it's sooooo boring) to some random NPC that you've never met before. And they go on and on!? I can honestly not understand why anyone would praise this game for it's story (not anything else either, for that matter).

Also, the setting does get some bonus points for not taking place in America (doesn't look like it anyway), but it's still pretty dull...

Not really no. The biggest parts was probably at Kleiner Lab, Black Mesa East and at the final level. That's it. 3 sections of the game. 2 of them you get to learn to use some "new" gameplay, like the Hazard suit and Gravity Gun. They also moments to wind down after all the action

 

[SFR]

What!? Half-Life 2 had tons of fucking exposition!

Or have you people totally forgotten about those ten-minute stretches where all you do is listen (or not, because it's sooooo boring) to some random NPC that you've never met before. And they go on and on!? I can honestly not understand why anyone would praise this game for it's story (not anything else either, for that matter).

Also, the setting does get some bonus points for not taking place in America (doesn't look like it anyway), but it's still pretty dull...

Wait, you actually understand who Gman is and know exactly what's going on by the stuff he says? (hint, you don't) Also, they're generally around a minute or two, not ten, Mr. ADHD.

So... Yeah, you're full of yourself. I'm sure your just trolling, which can be forgiven, because this is the internet.

Anyways, I think I've played through HL2 at least 7 times. I find new stuff each time. Almost all of the stuff you find adds to the setting/the lifestyle of the people trying live in City 17. Highway 17 is probably the best example of this. I always seem to go into every building along the road, knowing full well that I don't have to... although I do enjoy destroying the resistance houses converted to combine outposts by breaking windows with chairs. It strikes me as funny when one lands outside, and I think "man, a combine soldier is going to come along and see that chair in the middle of the street and think 'WTF?'"

Also, you can find a citizen that committed suicide with a revolver, and that's cool too.

 

[boholikeu]

So while the article is right about how Valve can "show, not tell" I wouldn't call it's story even close to the level of an RPG or even some other shooters for that matter.

While it's true that HL2's story isn't nearly as complex as those in other games, I still think it's one of the best out there because it manages to tell its tale almost entirely through gameplay (such as the environment exploration like we see in the above article). Too often deeper stories rely on non-interactive sequences like cut scenes to further the plot, and what's the point of playing that kind of game when you can just watch the story line on youtube and not miss anything?

What!? Half-Life 2 had tons of fucking exposition!

Or have you people totally forgotten about those ten-minute stretches where all you do is listen (or not, because it's sooooo boring) to some random NPC that you've never met before. And they go on and on!? I can honestly not understand why anyone would praise this game for it's story (not anything else either, for that matter).

Also, the setting does get some bonus points for not taking place in America (doesn't look like it anyway), but it's still pretty dull...

I actually thought this poster was being sarcastic at first. HL2 can't have more than 20 minutes of exposition in the whole 10 hour play time. I'd like to see someone name a game with a better exposition-gameplay ratio that doesn't have a completely throwaway story.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

I love the half-life games and Portal. They are competent FPS's and puzzlers respectively. The methods of story telling are also fantastic as this article shows. I think Half-Life 1 and 2 are the 2 most frequently played games in my gaming repetoir. So many run throughs all of which have been satisfying. Episode 1, 2 and Portal i've played several times but due to the much shorter experience i play them less frequently (counter logical i know but that's how it seems for me), even though they are better developed then HL1 or 2.

Claims it has tons of exposition, using italics and bold font to make his uncontributory argument seem more valid.

If you've played any number of games with a story you will be bombarded with information bombs in the form of PDA's. Notes, long dialogue sequences with no interaction, cutscenes and videos etc.... and you claim the 5 minutes they take out of the game as exposition. Most of the time they don't give away story, instead teach you some new gameplay feature or (as you unwittingly proved) introduce new characters

-"Or have you people totally forgotten about blah blah blah to some "random NPC" that you've never met before."

I'd love to know what other first person shooter (or game in general) you can bring to this discussion to change my opinion or even just verify your own, as you seem to be just opposing whats generally accepted for the sole purpose of attention seeking.

What the hell??? The entire half life series has been slightly entertaining at best, and portal had shit for story line! I loved the game portal because it was fun NOT because it was full of depth. Its like saying Mario Bros. had a revolutionary storyline and amazing character development. No...it...fucking...didnt.

Three question marks! Are you really that confused? Your welcome to an opinion but at least back up your argument with support, like another game for example, that does it better. Also no one mentioned character developement... at... fucking... all. In fact i would agree with you if you had absolutely any bases for your opinion. The discussion has nothing to do with the originality or revolutionary aspects of the story line as it has simply been said -in the article- "Earth's been taken over by aliens. Go shoot them." What is being discussed is the suggestive nature of the world opposed to information being thrown at you in waves.

One thing I would admit is that the Character developement isn't the best. Personally i don't find myself moved by the plights of the characters. For example at the end of half-life 2 i was surprised but not saddened. In that regard they missed the mark for me. Although i do enjoy alyx's (and dogs) company in the episodes and i actually felt bad for the companion cube.

 

[Xvito]

Claims it has tons of exposition, using italics and bold font to make his uncontributory argument seem more valid.

Claims I'm seeking attention while he really knows fuck all about me. Is also under the impression that I need validate my opinion to him.

ucwutididthar?

Also, I think the Half-Life-series suck balls... And there's nothing you can do that will change my mind. I almost stopped playing it halfway through, but since I had payed for the game(s); I thought I might as well finish it.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

Claims it has tons of exposition, using italics and bold font to make his uncontributory argument seem more valid.

Claims I'm seeking attention while he really knows fuck all about me. Is also under the impression that I need validate my opinion to him.

ucwutididthar?

Yeah i did... very clever. How about this, you come on to a topic devoted to showing appraisel to valve where its due... only to say you hate their main game but also semi-attempting to bash the article by saying it has tons of exposition of which it doesn't and in the process tripping up on your own argument by explaining why these scripted scenes occur (to introduce new characters)

again-"Or have you people totally forgotten about blah blah blah to some "random NPC" that you've never met before."

Would i be wrong in presuming that your judgement is based purely on the experience of Half-Life and not it's sequel, as your argument would make more sense there (just about). Don't bother to answer that... it doesn't change the fact your argument carries no weight what so ever.

I'm really curious as to what you consider a great game... as you hate a game for a reason that actually isn't present in that game. Its a shooter yes, you shoot things and they die or explode, expecting anymore in terms of gameplay will only dissapoint. It's linear and generally simple to get through so you can't get lost and frustration is eliminated.

Finally i have no interest in changing your mind about the series, it's your loss after all. I just don't understand where your initial argument came from... it's out of the blue. You rant about exposition and ponder on how could anyone possibly enjoy it in any way. When i counter your argument you respond (oh, sorry... retort) that the half-life series "sucks balls" and again leaving wihtout makeing any possible attempt at giving your opinion any value. Amazing really. I wonder what you have to contribute next.

 

[Xvito]

Claims it has tons of exposition, using italics and bold font to make his uncontributory argument seem more valid.

Claims I'm seeking attention while he really knows fuck all about me. Is also under the impression that I need validate my opinion to him.

ucwutididthar?

Yeah i did... very clever. How about this, you come on to a topic devoted to showing appraisel to valve where its due... only to say you hate their main game but also semi-attempting to bash the article by saying it has tons of exposition of which it doesn't and in the process tripping up on your own argument by explaining why these scripted scenes occur (to introduce new characters)

again-"Or have you people totally forgotten about blah blah blah to some "random NPC" that you've never met before."

Would i be wrong in presuming that your judgement is based purely on the experience of Half-Life and not it's sequel, as your argument would make more sense there (just about). Don't bother to answer that... it doesn't change the fact your argument carries no weight what so ever.

I'm really curious as to what you consider a great game... as you hate a game for a reason that actually isn't present in that game. Its a shooter yes, you shoot things and they die or explode, expecting anymore in terms of gameplay will only disappoint. It's linear and generally simple to get through so you can't get lost and frustration is eliminated.

Finally i have no interest in changing your mind about the series, it's your loss after all. I just don't understand where your initial argument came from... it's out of the blue. You rant about exposition and ponder on how could anyone possibly enjoy it in any way. When i counter your argument you respond (oh, sorry... retort) that the half-life series "sucks balls" and again leaving wihtout makeing any possible attempt at giving your opinion any value. Amazing really. I wonder what you have to contribute next.

If you must know what I consider a great shooter, then I shall tell you.

Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath is a great shooter. It has a lot of funny interactions between the player and the characters he meets. It has an interesting take on ammo, a semi-open world to explore, cool boss-fights, cool enemies, and almost no exposition at all. It has cut-scenes but they aren't filled with needless dialog, like it's brethren in the Half-Life-series (while not technically cut-scenes; they still serve the same purpose).

Also, the cut-scenes in the Half-Life-series do not introduce any characters; they just sort of assume that you already know them (quite an eerie feeling, to be honest).

PS. I never even finished the original game (Half-Life), because it was nearly unplayable. So, my experience of the the Half-Life-series comes almost entirely from the second game and it's expansions.

 

[HassEsser]

It seems Xvito hardly knows what he is talking about.

This article is spot on. It puts Half-Life 2 into words, and captures how the player feels. Makes me want to play the whole series again.... I think I will start up HL now.

 

[DBlack]

Half-Life is not Copyright EA. It's owned solely by Valve. EA just had the console publishing rights to the Orange Box.

I dunno why people keep mixing that up.

Because not everyone keeps up to date with worthless information like that...

 

[G-Mang]

Because not everyone keeps up to date with worthless information like that...

Inorite?? It's not like this site is about the game industry and Valve is one of the most acclaimed game studios of all time. I mean, if you're going to the trouble to put attribution on your images [http://cdn.themis-media.com/media/global/images/articles/article/6999/Owens_i236.jpg], why bother to do it correctly? It's not like the first result of googling "half-life 2" would bring up a page clearly showing its ownership belonging to Valve [http://orange.half-life2.com/].

 

[boholikeu]

Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath is a great shooter. It has a lot of funny interactions between the player and the characters he meets. It has an interesting take on ammo, a semi-open world to explore, cool boss-fights, cool enemies, and almost no exposition at all. It has cut-scenes but they aren't filled with needless dialog, like it's brethren in the Half-Life-series (while not technically cut-scenes; they still serve the same purpose).

Hm, sounds pretty interesting, maybe I'll see how much it is on Steam.

Of course if it isn't everything you promise it is expect to get a long message from me about what a philistine you are =)

 

[Ragsnstitches]

What i said

What he said

what i said

If you must know what I consider a great shooter, then I shall tell you.

Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath is a great shooter. It has a lot of funny interactions between the player and the characters he meets. It has an interesting take on ammo, a semi-open world to explore, cool boss-fights, cool enemies, and almost no exposition at all. It has cut-scenes but they aren't filled with needless dialog, like it's brethren in the Half-Life-series (while not technically cut-scenes; they still serve the same purpose).

Also, the cut-scenes in the Half-Life-series do not introduce any characters; they just sort of assume that you already know them (quite an eerie feeling, to be honest).

PS. I never even finished the original game (Half-Life), because it was nearly unplayable. So, my experience of the the Half-Life-series comes almost entirely from the second game and it's expansions.

Thanks, a good response. Never played strangers wrath as i never had an xbox, so i can't make an opinion on it. I believe it was good and i always loved the ol' oddworld games. What i don't understand is when half life came out initially it was THE BEST option for fps's at the time. Did you play it in the years after it's launch? I've always thought hype kills games and there was to be no exception. Otherwise FPS's would have been a dead genre for you.

Your exposition stance on Half-Life 2 still doesn't make any sense... of any game i know of it is one of the handfull that doesn't throw shit loads of story related info your way... the world, what happened and why are all answered by the game by show not tell. In other words they don't sit you down to a long ass dialouge sequence to tell you why "we don't go to ravenholm" or they don't place a convenient device or notice describing how events transpired in nova prosspekt... you figure it out for yourself by observation of the enviroment.

I have no quarrel with your tastes just your argument, i'm thinking there has been a misunderstanding to be honest.

 

[DBlack]

I love the half-life games and Portal. They are competent FPS's and puzzlers respectively. The methods of story telling are also fantastic as this article shows. I think Half-Life 1 and 2 are the 2 most frequently played games in my gaming repetoir. So many run throughs all of which have been satisfying. Episode 1, 2 and Portal i've played several times but due to the much shorter experience i play them less frequently (counter logical i know but that's how it seems for me), even though they are better developed then HL1 or 2.

Claims it has tons of exposition, using italics and bold font to make his uncontributory argument seem more valid.

If you've played any number of games with a story you will be bombarded with information bombs in the form of PDA's. Notes, long dialogue sequences with no interaction, cutscenes and videos etc.... and you claim the 5 minutes they take out of the game as exposition. Most of the time they don't give away story, instead teach you some new gameplay feature or (as you unwittingly proved) introduce new characters

-"Or have you people totally forgotten about blah blah blah to some "random NPC" that you've never met before."

I'd love to know what other first person shooter (or game in general) you can bring to this discussion to change my opinion or even just verify your own, as you seem to be just opposing whats generally accepted for the sole purpose of attention seeking.

What the hell??? The entire half life series has been slightly entertaining at best, and portal had shit for story line! I loved the game portal because it was fun NOT because it was full of depth. Its like saying Mario Bros. had a revolutionary storyline and amazing character development. No...it...fucking...didnt.

Three question marks! Are you really that confused? Your welcome to an opinion but at least back up your argument with support, like another game for example, that does it better. Also no one mentioned character developement... at... fucking... all. In fact i would agree with you if you had absolutely any bases for your opinion. The discussion has nothing to do with the originality or revolutionary aspects of the story line as it has simply been said -in the article- "Earth's been taken over by aliens. Go shoot them." What is being discussed is the suggestive nature of the world opposed to information being thrown at you in waves.

One thing I would admit is that the Character developement isn't the best. Personally i don't find myself moved by the plights of the characters. For example at the end of half-life 2 i was surprised but not saddened. In that regard they missed the mark for me. Although i do enjoy alyx's (and dogs) company in the episodes and i actually felt bad for the companion cube.

Not confusion so much as emphasis, and thats a good point I didnt back my side up with an example, so ill do that next time.

Im just trying to say that HL2 didnt have as much depth as the writer says it did....
well shit... half way through writing this response I rethought my stand. HL as a series didnt have a very staight forward storyline, but it did have alot of "extra shit" that didnt really help for story, but it shows that more has happend in a given area more then just what you see or did. I dont think that makes a game better, but it does make it more interesting.
Theres a reason games like halo do much better then HF, its because of gameplay and an interesting and easy to understand story.

 

[Xvito]

What i said

What he said

what i said

If you must know what I consider a great shooter, then I shall tell you.

Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath is a great shooter. It has a lot of funny interactions between the player and the characters he meets. It has an interesting take on ammo, a semi-open world to explore, cool boss-fights, cool enemies, and almost no exposition at all. It has cut-scenes but they aren't filled with needless dialog, like it's brethren in the Half-Life-series (while not technically cut-scenes; they still serve the same purpose).

Also, the cut-scenes in the Half-Life-series do not introduce any characters; they just sort of assume that you already know them (quite an eerie feeling, to be honest).

PS. I never even finished the original game (Half-Life), because it was nearly unplayable. So, my experience of the the Half-Life-series comes almost entirely from the second game and it's expansions.

Thanks, a good response. Never played strangers wrath as i never had an xbox, so i can't make an opinion on it. I believe it was good and i always loved the ol' oddworld games. What i don't understand is when half life came out initially it was THE BEST option for fps's at the time. Did you play it in the years after it's launch? I've always thought hype kills games and there was to be no exception. Otherwise FPS's would have been a dead genre for you.

Your exposition stance on Half-Life 2 still doesn't make any sense... of any game i know of it is one of the handfull that doesn't throw shit loads of story related info your way... the world, what happened and why are all answered by the game by show not tell. In other words they don't sit you down to a long ass dialouge sequence to tell you why "we don't go to ravenholm" or they don't place a convenient device or notice describing how events transpired in nova prosspekt... you figure it out for yourself by observation of the enviroment.

I have no quarrel with your tastes just your argument, i'm thinking there has been a misunderstanding to be honest.

Well, the thing is; it doesn't have much exposition, per say. It's just that it feels much more than it is, because it's so inconsistently dispersed throughout the game... It's kind of like the difficulty curve in Trine, i.e like running headfirst into a wall.

So, while the game doesn't have, like the tired me said (sorry about that), "tons of fucking exposition". I still think it's handled in the wrong way. Thus, making it worse than it could have been.

Also, it's kind of hard to enjoy the story in a game when you are struggling against a retarded physics-engine, idiotic puzzles, monotonous boss-fights (they're all the same... What's up with that?) and glitches. That might have been contributory to my general disliking of Half-Life 2.

PS. I did enjoy the sections where all you did was run, jump and shoot dudes. Those were really well made.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

Not confusion so much as emphasis, and thats a good point I didnt back my side up with an example, so ill do that next time.

Im just trying to say that HL2 didnt have as much depth as the writer says it did....
well shit... half way through writing this response I rethought my stand. HL as a series didnt have a very staight forward storyline, but it did have alot of "extra shit" that didnt really help for story, but it shows that more has happend in a given area more then just what you see or did. I dont think that makes a game better, but it does make it more interesting.
Theres a reason games like halo do much better then HF, its because of gameplay and an interesting and easy to understand story.

That's an opinion i can't argue with, to each their own after all.

However there's a factual error their. Half-life 2 out performed Halo in terms of retail sales, ratings, and awards (sales do not include steam sales or bundle sales). This doesn't include it's episodic sequels or halos sequels and i can't find a reliable source to verify the sequels of either games. However i can imagine the original fan base of both games buying into the sequels as well as new people joining in. Don't forget Halo series is (apart from combat evolved) xbox exclusive while valve's games have been released on every current gen platform except the wii. Why is that i wonder?

Oh and half-life out performed half-life 2 in the same regaurds just in case i got confused with your statement.

Well, the thing is; it doesn't have much exposition, per say. It's just that it feels much more than it is, because it's so inconsistently dispersed throughout the game... It's kind of like the difficulty curve in Trine, i.e like running headfirst into a wall.

So, while the game doesn't have, like the tired me said (sorry about that), "tons of fucking exposition". I still think it's handled in the wrong way. Thus, making it worse than it could have been.

Also, it's kind of hard to enjoy the story in a game when you are struggling against a retarded physics-engine, idiotic puzzles, monotonous boss-fights (they're all the same... What's up with that?) and glitches. That might have been contributory to my general disliking of Half-Life 2.

PS. I did enjoy the sections where all you did was run, jump and shoot dudes. Those were really well made.

Heh... the see-saw puzzle nature of the game was a bit gratuitous.

We've finally boiled down to simple differences in tastes. In my opinion the inconsistency of the, shall we say, "dialouge sequences" aren't as incosistant as they seem. They were created to serve a purpose wihin the game while still attempting to keep it relative to the story. You'll notice these event occur just before a big shootout, or a "boss battle" (i prefer to see them as rare encounters, they aren't meant to be unique just bigger and badder then ther others) or before a new gameplay feature is introduced. They serve as a breather, small tutorial or a heads-up for other events whitout removing the illusion of the game world.

The opposite in this spectrum would be Metal Gear Solid... the game will tell you what to do and refer to the controller your using while doing so. It would break immersion if it wasn't a running feature of the game. Did you like this series by any chance?

Retarded Physics?... really? The game uses the Havoc 2 engine which was the most advanced physics engine at the time. As is generally excepted the source games are showing their age so in modern gen games it's a bit lacking. But still... it blows me away every time i play it.

Talked about Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath

Hm, sounds pretty interesting, maybe I'll see how much it is on Steam.

Of course if it isn't everything you promise it is expect to get a long message from me about what a philistine you are =)

Good luck... i believe it's xbox (last gen) exclusive though, the only reason i never played it

 

[Xvito]

Snippety

The opposite in this spectrum would be Metal Gear Solid... the game will tell you what to do and refer to the controller your using while doing so. It would break immersion if it wasn't a running feature of the game. Did you like this series by any chance?

Retarded Physics?... really? The game uses the Havoc 2 engine which was the most advanced physics engine at the time. As is generally excepted the source games are showing their age so in modern gen games it's a bit lacking. But still... it blows me away every time i play it.

Have you studied physics or are you currently studying physics? If you have/are, then you should realize that a lot of the puzzles in Half-Life 2 make absolutely no sense. For me, who is currently studying physics (among other things), it's sometimes hard to figure out certain puzzles. Because, what the game wants you to do seems so stupid at times...

Also, I have only played the fourth game in the Metal Gear Solid-series. It was a pretty interesting movie... And at times even an interesting game.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

Have you studied physics or are you currently studying physics? If you have/are, then you should realize that a lot of the puzzles in Half-Life 2 make absolutely no sense. For me, who is currently studying physics (among other things), it's sometimes hard to figure out certain puzzles. Because, what the game wants you to do seems so stupid at times...

Also, I have only played the fourth game in the Metal Gear Solid-series. It was a pretty interesting movie... And at times even an interesting game.

My judgement of the games physics isn't due to studying anything. It's relative to what was available at the time, which was seriously lacking. Don't tell me you never experienced the feather physics of the original havoc engine... shit would float to the ground rather then fall.

So... i'm guessing you only played these games recently as you seem to be comparing them to contemporary games. You have to give credit where it's due, half-life 2 was released in 2003-4 (not sure) and it was head shoulders above other games in the physics department. And as for the puzzles... you found them difficult? It's just the game wasn't made by physicists (at least not many) and technology was still limited. So at best it has a secondary level grasp on physics. Geeze give credit where it's due. I'm sorry but "heavy object on one side of a see-saw will lift lighter object on the other" is a pretty easy concept to grasp even if the objects aren't relatively accurate in terms of weight and all the puzzles were like this. I didn't feel the need to get out my compass or ruler or calculator to solve them. It's good to know i was able to figure something out which a SCIENTIST couldn't.

... sorry.

PS. If you want to throw your knowledge around like a weapon then i might as well too (This really wasn't neccessary you know). I'm doing a degree course on film and animation which goes in depth on how to formulate a good story. So in that regards my knowledge of such outweighs your's, right? So that makes this whole mess of an argument pointless as i was right about the very first post, right?

...Or do you have another ace up your sleave. You did mention you were doing "other things".