306: Disney-Colored Death

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Ulquiorra4sama

Saviour In the Clockwork
Feb 2, 2010
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Great article.

And i've been wondering about this a little for myself. Deaths in gaming haven't really been that "important" in a sense, but i have to say that Red Dead Redemption pulled a couple nice ones. They're gonna stick with me for a while, i'm sure.

Now we'll just have to see if other companies can follow up... or even if Rockstar manages to do something like that again.
 

F'Angus

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Nov 18, 2009
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Very good article. . We need a Bambi like game (though I watched it the other day and was really surprised by how quickly the death scene is over.)

Also I hate that nightmare scene in Max Paine, that baby crying cuts right through me.
 

OptimisticPessimist

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Nov 15, 2010
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ccesarano said:
I know it's not a Disney film, but I think The Land Before Time is worth a mention here. I watched it with my niece recently, first time in over a decade, and they did not at all skip the mourning period for Little Foot. One particularly touching scene involved him seeing his own shadow from a distance, where it looked to be a full sized brontosaurus, and ran toward it joyfully believing (or perhaps wanting to believe) it was his own mother come alive again. In the end he merely snuggled and kissed a wall of rock, and the realization that his mother was still gone was absolutely heart breaking.

That moment reminded me of watching the film as a child and the overwhelming sadness it all created. The music, the expressions, the implications, everything. Even as an adult it was heart wrenching, and I could only wonder what my niece was thinking.

As for video games, I'd like to bring up Final Fantasy 6 where your actions determine if Cid lives or dies. Sometimes I allowed Cid to die merely because the following scene where Celes tries to kill herself in despair is so surprising and touching.

Then I hit reset, load up my save and make sure he survives so I can get that rare and awesome item as a reward.
Man, why'd you have to bring that up? I had those memories of Land Before Time neatly suppressed, too.
 

Sniper Team 4

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Apr 28, 2010
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Aeris' death crushed me, and to this day I still get a little saddened whenever her theme plays on my iPod. I have that image of Cloud holding her forever burned into my brain. Same with Bambi's sudden look of shock, and Mufasa lying under a broken tree. All very touching.

Hilton Collins said:
Aeris's death was the first videogame death that really affected me. It was so surprised and jarring. Unexpected because she was a likable and major character. I TOTALLY didn't expect her to get killed. And she was such an awesome character. Another death I can think of is Gremio's in Suikoden, when he dies in those crushing walls. And the GUITAR MUSIC! Anyone who played Suikoden for the PlayStation, remember!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYGAuDm6yF4
His death was heartbreaking for me too, but then I learned that you can bring him back. I was thrilled with this fact (and immediately restarted because I had missed some of the Stars), but it also cheapens his death a little. The scene itself, however, is very moving. Stupid poison spores.
 

Hilton Collins

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May 2, 2011
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Sniper Team 4 said:
His death was heartbreaking for me too, but then I learned that you can bring him back. I was thrilled with this fact (and immediately restarted because I had missed some of the Stars), but it also cheapens his death a little. The scene itself, however, is very moving. Stupid poison spores.
I must play this music on YouTube... and then see if it's available on iTunes...
 

James Kortright

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Mar 10, 2011
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I swear I am the only person who was genuinely disturbed and upset by the 'girlfriend's' death (forgotten her name) in Prey. Thought it tread the brutal-yet-sad line pretty well.

I also teared up when Lisa died in Silent Hill 1.

I AM MANLY I TELL YOU!
 

BrotherSurplice

ENEMY MAN
Apr 17, 2011
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Though I'm sad to say (no pun intended) that I cannot recall a game that has really made me weep, there are a few moments that have come REALLY damn close. One that comes to mind is in Mass Effect 2 when
you find Tali's dead father
The way they did that scene was just so moving, my eyes were moistened. Another moment that comes to mind is again in Mass Effect 2, when you are exploring Nef's (the girl that Morinth killed) room on Omega. That was pretty damn moving.

And of course the ending Half Life 2: Episode 2 was heart rending
Just the way Alyx is there sobbing and begging her father not to leave her, and then it just fades to black, with her sobbing all you can hear . . . very, very moving.
 

daftalchemist

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Aug 6, 2008
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The movies described had definite lasting impacts on the lives of those who watched them. As I read the description of Mufasa's fall and Simba's reaction, tears started to well up in my eyes as I replayed it in my mind. The Lion King was a childhood favorite of mine, and even now 17 years later, I can still remember every moment of that scene, and it still has the ability to touch me emotionally.

Only one game has ever hit me that hard: Half Life Episode 2. The ending of HLE2 had me in hysterics, for a week after I had tearful flashbacks, and I still get tears in my eyes just to think of it now. That scene hit me so terribly hard, mostly because my dad is my most favorite person in the world. He's the one family member I feel truly understands me and cares about me. To see such an emotionally charged moment between a father and an utterly helpless daughter...that will stick with me for a very long time.

In today's industry, the standard seems to be to keep characters around just in case there's a sequel, lest you end up with some ridiculous Liquid Ocelot scenario. I think this cripples a player's ability to form a true connection with the characters they play as and alongside. All love songs seem to agree that the hardest part of connecting with someone is the worry of losing them, but you never seem to be able to truly lose someone in a game world. Even if they're held captive by the bad guy, you know you're going to be rescuing them later, so what does it matter if you take a moment to explore a few side paths and secret areas? Until game developers can present us with scenarios where the loss of a character seems real, and the prevention of that loss is directly related to our actions, we'll never fully connect with the characters they create and never fully submerge ourselves in the worlds they build.
 

zerobudgetgamer

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Apr 5, 2011
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tahrey said:
There are plenty of disney games out there you know... including this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lion_King_(video_game) in which I presume you die quite often. But at the same time remember they're also known for the "Disney Villain Death" where they fall out of a window and out of sight, presumably to break against jagged rocks somewhere that the audience never sees...
The problem with those is that they're designed to cash in on the movie. The very game you mention is rife with levels designed to capitalize on particular scenes instead of recreating the plot and emotional impact therein, like the Mammoth Graveyard and Stampede levels.

daftalchemist said:
In today's industry, the standard seems to be to keep characters around just in case there's a sequel, lest you end up with some ridiculous Liquid Ocelot scenario. I think this cripples a player's ability to form a true connection with the characters they play as and alongside. All love songs seem to agree that the hardest part of connecting with someone is the worry of losing them, but you never seem to be able to truly lose someone in a game world. Even if they're held captive by the bad guy, you know you're going to be rescuing them later, so what does it matter if you take a moment to explore a few side paths and secret areas? Until game developers can present us with scenarios where the loss of a character seems real, and the prevention of that loss is directly related to our actions, we'll never fully connect with the characters they create and never fully submerge ourselves in the worlds they build.
Truer words have never been spoken. In most games, there is always a point when fighting an enemy when the protagonist seems to be "too weak" or "incapable of beating the enemy" and quite possibly is "about to die." The problem with these scenes is that the past 5, 10, 20+ hours of gameplay have shown us that we are NOT "too weak" and, in some circumstances, have the tools at hand to insure we can beat the enemy in a few choice hits and/or can never be killed. And any game that tries to put the protagonist in a "about to die" scenario without giving clear evidence that the main villain is going to die as well is just grasping at straws, since everyone knows the hero will never die, at least not until his final foe is beaten.

And also, the bigger problem is that characters that are meant to die usually set themselves up as so. You're given very little time to grow attached to them, and usually they bring nothing truly "important" to the fight. I haven't had the chance to play the other games mentioned, but this is why I never found Aeris' death all that emotional, since A. She was a White Mage in a game where Healing Materia could be passed out to all characters, B. Unless you spent the time getting her last ones, her Limit Breaks were all rather meh, since again, Healing was never a major issue, and on a personal note C. She just didn't seem that attractive to me. When given the choice, I'd always choose Tifa over Aeris, if I used a girl at all.

I've actually thought about this a lot, and I believe that, even if a game can't force us to part with a character midway, it should at least give us some loss at the end of a game. It may sound weird, but at the end of Super Mario RPG, I actually cried a bit as a kid when I found out Geno was leaving us to return to where he came. Geno had become an undeniable favorite in my books, a character with whom I put a far higher emotional investment in than any other character. He was always in my party, from beginning to end, and just the thought that he was leaving and I'd never get to see him again just sort of made me teary-eyed. Cut to the present, and another game has come eerily close to making me shed a tear, and that was Okamiden.

I won't go into detail, but suffice it to say at the tail end of the game, one of the partners you had in the game with has to die by your hands to defeat the final boss, and, going against all fairy tale logic, he is NOT brought back to life at the end.

Though I didn't cry, I came very close to, and it's this sort of bittersweet ending that we need more of. The Hero saves the day from the Wicked Antagonist, but in doing so, leaves with less than he came in with. In this way, games can still give you your attachments, and can possibly solicit even more of an emotional impact when they're taken away. Of course, there is always the problem of sequels, and of course since we're talking only about the ending, not some tear-jerking moment in the middle, you don't get to actively witness the protagonist's grieving and subsequent acceptance of the event, but it would be a start, at the very least.
 

Timmehexas

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Aug 15, 2010
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shado_temple said:
I have to admit, Up made me care about the protagonist and his wife faster than any movie I've seen in a while; I bought the soundtrack to the movie, and every time I hear the music from the "Married Life" montage, I admit that I feel the tears coming on.

<youtube=GroDErHIM_0>

If I can find a game that can move someone that quickly, I'm all for it.
Oh god you horrible, horrible person! Why'd you have to make me watch that again... *blubbers*
 

Xersues

DRM-free or give me death!
Dec 11, 2009
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You know what was a really messed up death. Jackie's girlfriend in the Darkness was a really screwed up death scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JUNA-kapnY
 

Alex Spencer

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May 16, 2011
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tahrey said:
There are plenty of disney games out there you know... including this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lion_King_(video_game) in which I presume you die quite often.
I remember that game! And I wanted to squeeze it into the article, but it just didn't fit. As I recall, you die a lot, it was absolutely impossible. But as zerobudgetgamer points out, it didn't linger on the death stuff at all.
(The Disney Villain deaths were something else I wanted to fit in but didn't have enough room for: they're proof of how much reactions matter, I reckon).

shado_temple said:
<youtube=GroDErHIM_0>
I'm with Timmehexas, that's just cruel! I pressed play just expecting it to be the music...

EvilPicnic said:
And you're quite right that in any other narrative media the prospect of death is the great source of pathos, and something which games lose out on when any 'death' is impermanent. I have been thinking about what mechanics you could use to get around this, but the obvious ones (such as 'permanent' death) just result in games which are either boring, or frustratingly hard. Hmmm.
This is something I spent a lot of time thinking about. The best conclusion I can come to is that you feel the death of others more strongly, so the emerging trend for perma-dead NPCs that you're made to care about is the way forward, kind of like The Gentleman mentions. Another way of doing it is the way Roguelikes (of which Spelunky is the most playable example) do, making you care about the character in terms of stats and items you build (and randomly creating a unique world) and then one death meaning the permanent end of that.

Dastardly said:
This'll sound odd, but the first thing that popped into my head while reading this is the difference between Hostel and Hostel II. Bear with me on this, it makes total sense by the end.
Woah, that's quite the reply. Fascinating stuff, man.

Izzyisme said:
I am tired of Escapist writers citing Jason Rohrer's Passage as an example of where games need to be moving to.
Hands up on this one. I don't have any great love for Passage (Rohrer is a really interesting person to follow), and it's such an easy pick to represent 'art games', but it provided a perfect example for what I meant about mechanics bending away from the traditional gaming way, and in a way that mirrors a filmic approach. So, yeah, I'll agree it's an easily over-used game, and I think in a lot of ways it's a dead-end in terms of what games 'could' be because it's so much it's own thing. But it makes death part of the game WITHOUT being part of the narrative, in a traditional sense.

F said:
We need a Bambi like game (though I watched it the other day and was really surprised by how quickly the death scene is over.)
I deeply recommend everyone goes back to the film and watches this scene and the next. It's surprising how short it is for such an iconic moment. But especially how sudden the next scene is. It literally jumps back to the sunniest, Disneyiest bit of the entire film within seconds and completely disregards the death. Which contrasts interestingly with what Dastardly was saying...

Tin Man said:
The thing is, before gaming can get its Lion King or its Up, it needs its Disney or its Pixar.
We need a champion for the kind of thinking that rocks the boat by inventing the artform it goes on to perfect.
It has to be said, I don't think that videogames can ever reach that level.
Really? Aw, man. I don't think we're too far away. Valve is probably the nearest we've got to a Pixar, in terms of building the foundations for Great Art. From what I've played so far, Portal 2 is probably the greatest comedy game ever made, and laughing is just as important as crying, right?

...But thanks so much everyone, for reading, and commenting, and then overwhelmingly having such (suspiciously) nice things to say! There's already a link at the end of the article, but to take the opportunity to plug for a moment, check out my website (www.alex-spencer.co.uk) if you fancy reading more of my work.

And, finally, sorry to anyone I dredged up those painful memories for. ;)
 

Dastardly

Imaginary Friend
Apr 19, 2010
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Alex Spencer said:
Dastardly said:
This'll sound odd, but the first thing that popped into my head while reading this is the difference between Hostel and Hostel II. Bear with me on this, it makes total sense by the end.
Woah, that's quite the reply. Fascinating stuff, man.
Haha, out of context, that really does make me sound like a crazy person... But thanks for getting back to me on this!

F said:
We need a Bambi like game (though I watched it the other day and was really surprised by how quickly the death scene is over.)
I deeply recommend everyone goes back to the film and watches this scene and the next. It's surprising how short it is for such an iconic moment. But especially how sudden the next scene is. It literally jumps back to the sunniest, Disneyiest bit of the entire film within seconds and completely disregards the death. Which contrasts interestingly with what Dastardly was saying...
I think it was a good plan, on their part. It allowed different people to react in different ways, rather than forcing a particular reaction on everyone (Thou shalt be sad). For more mature viewers, the happiness of the next scene doesn't undermine the sadness of the death--it underscores it with irony. The rest of the world doesn't notice, barely anything changes, and you're left to reconcile this gaping hole in your left alone. The audience member is left to dwell on the death while everyone else skips merrily along.

But for the younger kids, who maybe aren't quite at a point where they'll grasp the emotional weight of the death, the movie goes right on as though the death is just a momentary plot point. The movie doesn't force them to dwell on the death, as if to say, "No, really. Go back a moment. You should really still be quite sad about this."

Now, do I think all of this was the plan, carefully and strategically weighed and considered? Not necessarily. But even if it is a result of a somewhat laissez-faire approach to eliciting emotional reactions from the audience, that works, too. It's a sign of a writer that trusts the audience to get it, if they're ready, and doesn't get pedantic with those who might not.

It's a mature type of writing, especially given the target audience. I think it's great to have mature writing for kids, even the young'ns. Getting a kid emotionally invested in a story gets them interested in more stories, rather than just holding their gaze for 90 minutes. And there are really only two things a writer needs to make that happen:

1. An understanding of how audiences think and feel, so that they can lay a trail of breadcrumbs that lead to the desired emotional outcomes. Knowing how to wind up for the hit, and how to follow through (or not) is just as important as connecting with the ball. Or, if you prefer a chess analogy, knowing how your opponent can and will react three moves from now is the only way to ensure the game goes your way.

2. An understanding and appreciation of the audience's autonomy. They are thinking, feeling beings. For one, this means you can allow them to fill in some blanks themselves (which they will often do far better for themselves than you can). But it also means recognizing that sometimes they will react in unplanned ways, and the writer shouldn't display resentment for that by belaboring the point or trying to artificially add weight to the scene.

As far as how this ties to gaming, I think we're getting much better at the first, at least from a mechanical standpoint. Tutorials are, overall, improving. We know which parts of the game will give new players the most trouble, and we plan moments of instruction to get them through it. The next step is applying that same forethought to the emotional content of a game.

But as for the second? Trusting the audience to get it--that's something we're not very good at, many times. We fall back on tired old tropes to convey things like villainy, innocence, sadness... the stories sometimes border on allegory in how explicitly they define each character's one-dimensional persona. They tend not to trust an audience to play nicely in any grey area. Perhaps it's a bit of laziness, too, as it's just easier to write in black and white.