343 Industries and The Halo Franchise

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Thyunda

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So, as you're all most likely aware, Bungie has taken a stroll around the block and left Halo in the care of the specially-constructed 343 Industries, who, naturally, took the opportunity to announce Halo 4.
I'm not somebody who'll sit there and shout 'OMG LET IT DIE', because to be honest, I find that point of view completely and utterly ridiculous. However, I've decided I don't think I like 343.

The title update is almost out for Halo: Reach, and 343 gave us a few test playlists of what they want to do with the game.

The test playlists have little to no armour abilities, no reticle bloom, and shield bleeding, meaning that headshots do health damage as well as shield...sort of rendering them useless.

I remember a game like this that came out four years ago....what was it called? Oh yeah. Halo 3.

I think the cause of this may have a little to do with the fact that the online Halo community is the biggest group of bitches I've ever seen. It's the only place I'm aware of where 'Adapt' is a 'troll answer', like saying 'cool story bro' or 'u mad?'. The whole place is a hive of complaints about armour lock and reticle bloom - two of the three things conspicuously removed from the playlists.

Now, Escapist, I have to ask. Has it really gotten to the point where it's a rarity to play the game you're given? With community support as effective as it can be, every time somebody doesn't like something, they can actually have it changed.
Armour lock may be frustrating. But only if you're an idiot. If almost kill a guy and he armour-locks, just take the time to reload. If another guy joins in, knock his shields off and roll a grenade between the two of them. If it's been as long as you insist, the first guy will pop out right before the grenade explodes. Bam. Double kill.

Of course, you try explaining that on the Halo forums and suddenly people are regaling you about your K/D ratio.
It worries me when serious debates are solved with a rifle-measuring contest.

Now. I love Halo, as a series. Halo: Reach is one of my most played games. However, if these changes go ahead, I'm not sure I can keep playing. I know I sound hypocritical, refusing to adapt, but in all fairness, I've gotten accustomed to Reach, and I enjoy it. If I wanted 343's changes, I would go to a used game store, and I would buy Halo 3 real cheap.

Also, they're fucking with the established canon. Why does a prequel have more features than the last chronological one? Armour abilities were experimental and Spartan-IIs had steady, steady hands, so reticle bloom was not a problem in Halo 3. Spartan-IIIs, the playable soldiers in Reach, do not have this upgrade. That is why there is bloom.

So the discussion I put to you - What do you think of the changes? Do you like them, or do you agree with me that the Halo community is a hive of scum and villainy and that anybody who supports this Reach 2.0 is a member of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor?
If you're not a Halo fan, and you're not sure why you clicked the forum link, feel free to add your own complaints or praise for games you're familiar with that for reasons known only to themselves revert to a predecessor.
 

Bob_Dobb

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I'm going to side with the "hive of scum and villainy" argument. Halo is just an awful game and I just hate anything with regen shields and health and I consider that Halo popularised the trend. Maybe I just hate FPS games... time to play me some bright N64 platformers.
 

Thyunda

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Sober Thal said:
-'The Halo community is a hive of scum and villainy and that anybody who supports this Reach 2.0 is a member of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor.'-

That's some good flame bait. Really original too.

Nit picking before the game is released is not a fun idea for me. I'll wait to pass judgement after the game is out, and I have actually played it.
I may have been deliberately exaggerating.

I'm not saying anything about Halo 4. I've not got anything to go off. My complaints were about Halo Reach and the playlists I have played. I just don't think these changes are going to get me very excited for their first 'masterpiece'.
 

Dark Knifer

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I wasn't aware of such drastic changes in reach. I got over that some time ago but it's a good game, not sure why the changes were needed unless 343 are just going along with whatever the community says, which I don't need to explain why that is a terrible, terrible idea.

Also, I don't think many members of the community give a shit about the canon if we are talking about the "1337 pr0" multiplayer freaks (which there are a ton of unfortunately.

Basically, 343 seems too eager to change things. I don't even understand the point of the title update frankly.
 

Palademon

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I don't understand how being against making another trilogy that carries on the supposed ending, is being ridiculous.

I can't judge the game on its own merit before it gets released, but I can still get an idea of why they're doing this. One of the reasons could be Halo fans not wanting it to end, and 343 somehow wanting to appease them. But having the series supposed to end two times already to be met with a "Yeah...no" does seem a bit greedy.

I'd like for them to give it rest, at least for a little bit, but that apparent 'awful community' probably wouldn't like that.
 

IBlackKiteI

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They're damn good changes, and even if you disagree with them they're so minute that dropping a game you really like because of them is utterly ridiculous.

From what I've heard the shield/health bleed thingy only comes into effect when someone has low shields. If a guy with say 25% shields gets shot he'll also lose some health. This will have practically no impact on anything other than assault rifles and plasma weapons because of their low damage, and they need some buffing anyway.

Recticle bloom will only be removed in some playlists. All in all it's nothing major to worry about.

The Halo community is probably one of the worst, yeah, but in the case of cheap shit like armour lock they have a point.

Armour lock is quite possibly the worst mechanic, if you can call it that, ever devised. Jetpacks? Fair enough. Sprint? Whats wrong with that? An ability which grants you complete invulnerability from any and all things, including rockets, shotgun blasts and tank rounds for a time long enough for a bunch of players to expend two munitions dumps worth of grenades on you with no effect? Yeah, fuck you too Bungie.
It's a cheap thing which lets players cheat death, though I actually hate it a hell of a lot more when my teammates do it. It also makes players do even stupidier things than normal, like run up to a guy and go into armour lock as an obvious distraction, but then you're entire team does it leaving noone to friggin kill the guy. It doesn't matter if it can be countered, the benefit from it is so fucking huge.
Ok, try this. Compare running to surviving a million explosions.
The nerf on it will be glorious. It now acts more like an extra shield which runs out as it takes more damage, which is what it should've been in the first place. Armour could've been great if it was like this on launch, but it wasn't so it ended up as a ridiculously overused mechanic.

Overall this change is beautiful, and you're overreacting to an absurd degree.
Maybe you should be more focused on what Halo 4 (and 5 and 6) will likely end up as.

EDIT: Oh yeah and the pissing on canon part. If they ever hand waved the lack of bloom as an actual part of the canon, that's so dumb it's hilarious. Remember that that POS bullet hose SMG and to a lesser extent pretty much every other automatic weapon has a shitton of recoil, and that even non Spartans get no substantial loss in accuracy during sustained shooting with precision type guns.
 

LordRoyal

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And people wonder why Bungie jumped ship.

Because they knew they ran out of ideas.
 

Nouw

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343 Industries is responsible for the richest canon in the Halo-verse, I'm fairly sure they can change a bit of canon for gameplay.

Also, what is this recticle bloom?
 

Thyunda

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IBlackKiteI said:
They're damn good changes, and even if you disagree with them they're so minute that dropping a game you really like because of them is utterly ridiculous.

From what I've heard the shield/health bleed thingy only comes into effect when someone has low shields. If a guy with say 25% shields gets shot he'll also lose some health. This will have practically no impact on anything other than assault rifles and plasma weapons because of their low damage, and they need some buffing anyway.

Armour lock is quite possibly the worst mechanic, if you can call it that, ever devised. Jetpacks? Fair enough. Sprint? Whats wrong with that? An ability which grants you complete invulnerability from any and all things, including rockets, shotgun blasts and tank rounds for a time long enough for a bunch of players to expend two munitions dumps worth of grenades on you with no effect? Yeah, fuck you too Bungie.
It's a cheap thing which lets players cheat death, though I actually hate it a hell of a lot more when my teammates do it. It also makes players do even stupidier things than normal, like run up to a guy and go into armour lock as an obvious distraction, but then you're entire team does it leaving noone to friggin kill the guy. It doesn't matter if it can be countered, the benefit from it is so fucking huge.
Ok, try this. Compare running to surviving a million explosions.
The nerf on it will be glorious. It now acts more like an extra shield which runs out as it takes more damage, which is what it should've been in the first place. Armour could've been great if it was like this on launch, but it wasn't so it ended up as a ridiculously overused mechanic.
The shield bleeding lead to me going from full shields and health to dying in three headshots from the DMR.


As for armour lock - I've never had a problem dealing with it. In fact, I swear my brother has a sixth sense for fighting with it. He'll kill one guy, and sprint at an armour-locked Spartan. As soon as he hits B, the Spartan comes out of armour lock and takes a solid fist to the jaw. I never use armour lock, myself. I prefer to be able to sprint. My brother just makes me feel ashamed of myself if I use the lock.

Sober Thal said:
Thyunda said:
Sober Thal said:
-'The Halo community is a hive of scum and villainy and that anybody who supports this Reach 2.0 is a member of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor.'-

That's some good flame bait. Really original too.

Nit picking before the game is released is not a fun idea for me. I'll wait to pass judgement after the game is out, and I have actually played it.
I may have been deliberately exaggerating.

I'm not saying anything about Halo 4. I've not got anything to go off. My complaints were about Halo Reach and the playlists I have played. I just don't think these changes are going to get me very excited for their first 'masterpiece'.
Deliberately exaggerating for the purpose of inflaming people isn't cool. Complaining about about Reach isn't the same as saying 343 cannot make a good game. I think you should just chill, the new Halo can be be a good game. Wait till we have more info before you rag on it.

I've not said anything about Halo 4 yet. Where do you keep getting your facts?


Palademon said:
I don't understand how being against making another trilogy that carries on the supposed ending, is being ridiculous.

I can't judge the game on its own merit before it gets released, but I can still get an idea of why they're doing this. One of the reasons could be Halo fans not wanting it to end, and 343 somehow wanting to appease them. But having the series supposed to end two times already to be met with a "Yeah...no" does seem a bit greedy.

I'd like for them to give it rest, at least for a little bit, but that apparent 'awful community' probably wouldn't like that.
It just implies that a character may only have one adventure in his lifetime. Master Chief is still alive. There's a whole universe out there. Why would he retire and live in a country estate just because he beat the Covenant.
 

Korten12

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Nouw said:
343 Industries is responsible for the richest canon in the Halo-verse, I'm fairly sure they can change a bit of canon for gameplay.

Also, what is this recticle bloom?
They also did say the style of Halo 4 will be more in the expanded Canon.
 

Thyunda

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SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Armor lock just doesnt belong. Armor abilities as a whole are complete bullshit. Almost everyone agrees on this, from long time Halo fans who suck and swear to newbs to the average joe thats an alright guy and only plays from time to time.

I hope they get removed, I hope we get another Halo 3. Because that game was pretty much perfect (to Halo fans, no need to jump on me just because you personally dont like Halo 3).

If you enjoy your armor lock, stick to Halo Reach? No one is forcing you to move on. The thing that bugs me is that you are presenting this as if you had been a long time fan of the series and things like armor lock had always been present. They were not. They came new with Reach, everybody hated them, and now they are going away again. Good thing too.

Nobody is freaking listening. I'm not talking about Halo 4, I'm talking about the Halo: Reach title update! If I want another Halo 3, I will go buy freaking Halo 3! If I want armour abilities and reticle bloom and stuff, I will play Halo Reach. If I don't, I'll play Halo 3. Why is this so hard to understand?
 

Calcium

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I'd heard Bungie and 343 were synonomous - like, half the Bungie staff just moved to 343 while the other half went on to do new things. Note that I know nothing of the truth of that, just heard it from somewhere.

Anyway, as much as I like Reach, I don't think I'll be playing it with these changes... If you asked me I'd say Armour Lock did require balancing, but I'd have done it by adding/increasing a delay in attacking after coming out of it - that way it would be a defensive ability instead of a melee-winning ability.

The removal of reticle bloom though just strikes me as ridiculously silly. Lost a little faith in the devs reading that.
 

mikeybuthge

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People complaining about the new halo trilogy already, sounds like pre-emptive star wars prequel trilogy complaint syndrome, if it has problems let it be, we don't rag on people with terminal illness, why should we rag on an over-hyped trilogy that can't possibly live up to the hype with halo 4, just wait and complain later
 

Thyunda

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SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Thyunda said:
SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Armor lock just doesnt belong. Armor abilities as a whole are complete bullshit. Almost everyone agrees on this, from long time Halo fans who suck and swear to newbs to the average joe thats an alright guy and only plays from time to time.

I hope they get removed, I hope we get another Halo 3. Because that game was pretty much perfect (to Halo fans, no need to jump on me just because you personally dont like Halo 3).

If you enjoy your armor lock, stick to Halo Reach? No one is forcing you to move on. The thing that bugs me is that you are presenting this as if you had been a long time fan of the series and things like armor lock had always been present. They were not. They came new with Reach, everybody hated them, and now they are going away again. Good thing too.

Nobody is freaking listening. I'm not talking about Halo 4, I'm talking about the Halo: Reach title update! If I want another Halo 3, I will go buy freaking Halo 3! If I want armour abilities and reticle bloom and stuff, I will play Halo Reach. If I don't, I'll play Halo 3. Why is this so hard to understand?
Then sorry, but what in gods name are you blabbering about?

I havent hopped on Reach in ages, but to my understanding 343s update only included some playlists with no armor abilities? And the other playlists are still intact? So what the fuck is the damn problem?

The current way of playing Reach will become the minority of playlists - the update they're making to pander to the vocal part of the community will be the norm. Essentially, it'll be Halo 3 with some armour ability playlists.
 

Palademon

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Thyunda said:
Palademon said:
I don't understand how being against making another trilogy that carries on the supposed ending, is being ridiculous.

I can't judge the game on its own merit before it gets released, but I can still get an idea of why they're doing this. One of the reasons could be Halo fans not wanting it to end, and 343 somehow wanting to appease them. But having the series supposed to end two times already to be met with a "Yeah...no" does seem a bit greedy.

I'd like for them to give it rest, at least for a little bit, but that apparent 'awful community' probably wouldn't like that.
It just implies that a character may only have one adventure in his lifetime. Master Chief is still alive. There's a whole universe out there. Why would he retire and live in a country estate just because he beat the Covenant.
Because that was the whole motivation and goal of the game.
Unless they pull some other aliens out of their asses. For a series that takes its lore so seriously, I doubt something like that, happening so predictably, would please many people.

The only reason to make a sequel is if you're bringing something new to the table, continuing a story, or telling a new one. All I can think of for another trilogy is either some other aliens coming along, or destroying a few that just happened to survive. And in terms of changes to gameplay, it is clear that people aren't happy with that.

Of course, they could somehow manage to make a good game. But as it is, it seems like being greedy will little reason to be.