47% of Households Owe No Federal Income Tax (no rly) (USA)

[cobra_ky]

And yet, those people can vote on whether or not to increase income tax on the rest of us which will then be "redistributed" to them.

Thanks Democrats for giving away so much of my money.

no they can't. they vote for congressmen and senators who then vote to raise or lower taxes. Incidentally, there's a direct correlation between income level and voter turnout. Poor people just don't vote that much.

 

[Dudemeister]

And yet, those people can vote on whether or not to increase income tax on the rest of us which will then be "redistributed" to them.

Thanks Democrats for giving away so much of my money.

Don't you mean thanks recession ?

 

[John Funk]

You make a reasonably compelling argument but it still falls flat on the basis of what you choose to hold any given person responsible for.

You can't just arbitrarily draw a line in the sand and say 'these people lack self-disipline' therefore everything is their own fault...

Yes, I know people that spend all the money they have on alcohol, or drugs, or similar stuff, then beg for more.
You can't help some people by giving them money, in the end.

But success and failure aren't simple correlates with how hard you work.
Working harder won't make you more successful in and of itself.
Neither will being lazy guarantee being poor.

Sure, to a point, you can improve your own circumstances, but all it takes is one misfortune to put you into a practically unrecoverable position.
Being master of your own destiny has it's limits.

What's worse, the choice in attitude has negative consequences. I can, and do see people get mistreated simply because they are poor.
Why? Because people think it's their own fault.

It doesn't matter if it is or it isn't the person's own fault, but time and again i've seen the 'you are responsible for your own fate' line of reasoning used to be outright abusive to anyone who is poor, with no care or consideration given to why they are poor, but just the implicit assumption that they are the only ones responsible.

The flip side to this is of course letting people off from taking any kind of responsibility for their own actions, which is, ironically, also harmful. And in particular, it's actually harmful to the person themselves.

Then of course, as a European, the 'welfare trap' comes to mind.
This is the psychological trap that results from getting government handouts.
Some people use it to justify not giving people anything to begin with, but the real problem is that the system is rigged (as with your example of the handicapped) to be counter-productive.
If you can barely afford to eat, and are then obliged into a situation which actually worsens your financial situation, (it's not just that you don't gain from it, but you actually go backwards...) who in their right mind would actually do it?
It's like being asked to work more hours at your job, except the harder you work, the less you get. Not much incentive there.
Welfare systems are fine in principle, but why are so many of them rigged to actively discourage people to try and improve their circumstances?

There's a difference between being poor and being unable to go see a movie when you feel like it, and being poor and having to decide if you can actually afford to eat something today...

But basically, I very much doubt people have anywhere near as much control over their lives as you think they do.

I agree with this.

Should people be forever penalized for one poor decision they made? Even if they made it when they were, say, young and stupid? Teenagers do stupid things. You did stupid things, I did stupid things; EVERYONE did.

Case studies have repeatedly shown that "Hard work" alone is rarely enough for someone to pull themselves up unless they get very lucky. When you have a single mom working two full-time jobs and wearing herself to the bone just to pay bills and take care of kids, but still not managing to make enough to put in savings and move out of an inner city neighborhood? That's not a sustainable situation.

 

[ajb924]

And my houshold pays 46% of our entire income to taxes! Hooray for socialism!

 

[scotth266]

I agree with this.

Should people be forever penalized for one poor decision they made? Even if they made it when they were, say, young and stupid? Teenagers do stupid things. You did stupid things, I did stupid things; EVERYONE did.

Case studies have repeatedly shown that "Hard work" alone is rarely enough for someone to pull themselves up unless they get very lucky. When you have a single mom working two full-time jobs and wearing herself to the bone just to pay bills and take care of kids, but still not managing to make enough to put in savings and move out of an inner city neighborhood? That's not a sustainable situation.

That would likely fall into the kind of person he considers unlucky (and therefore in need of assistance.)

There does need to be a line drawn though. Sure, people with bad luck on the draw should be helped, and people who make one to two mistakes should be helped, but where do you draw the line? Isn't there a point where you have to assume that a person is dead set on staying in the same bad situation, regardless of your attempts to help them? And what do you give people in trouble anyway: what will get them on their feet?

It's less of an issue of whether or not you want to help people, but rather how much you want to help them, who you want to help, and how you plan on helping. There is a time when you have to draw a line in the sand, and if a person refuses to cross to your side, they're no longer worth your time or resources, because there are other people out there who earnestly need both of those things.

 

[somekindarobot]

Sure some rich families can put their kids through school and the student will not have to put forth additional effort to earn the money needed to go, but that's a small percentage of students.

But you do know that said minority of people control a majority of the wealth?

 

[stone0042]

And yet, those people can vote on whether or not to increase income tax on the rest of us which will then be "redistributed" to them.

Thanks Democrats for giving away so much of my money.

This is why Obama and the rest of his buddies are such twats. Yes, let's take money from those that work hard for it, and give it to people on welfare. Yeah, i realize that a small portion (a VERY small portion) actually need and deserve welfare, but the rest of you, get a job!

 

[Alex_P]

*cough* Payroll tax *cough*

-- Alex

 

[Oldmanwillow]

Should people be forever penalized for one poor decision they made? Even if they made it when they were, say, young and stupid? Teenagers do stupid things. You did stupid things, I did stupid things; EVERYONE did.

Case studies have repeatedly shown that "Hard work" alone is rarely enough for someone to pull themselves up unless they get very lucky. When you have a single mom working two full-time jobs and wearing herself to the bone just to pay bills and take care of kids, but still not managing to make enough to put in savings and move out of an inner city neighborhood? That's not a sustainable situation.

I disagree with you. Yes we should be punished for every mistake that we do.

When i was in high school i busted my ass with my studies and my music. while the other teens just worried about having fun in the short term. I left high school being rated 1 on my instrument in the state and getting a full ride scholarship to my college of choice. Yet again i am at college and i am seeing more of the same Young people just trying to have fun rather than make the most of their circumstances. It sickens me.

People need to understand that each of your own actions has a consequence the best way to teach that lesson is to let them fail and make them work up from there failure.

Lets talk about the single mom situation unless it a divorce how did the situation arise. By her being dumb. If its s divorce then usually they get child support to help them deal with the bills.

 

[Low Key]

Should people be forever penalized for one poor decision they made? Even if they made it when they were, say, young and stupid? Teenagers do stupid things. You did stupid things, I did stupid things; EVERYONE did.

Case studies have repeatedly shown that "Hard work" alone is rarely enough for someone to pull themselves up unless they get very lucky. When you have a single mom working two full-time jobs and wearing herself to the bone just to pay bills and take care of kids, but still not managing to make enough to put in savings and move out of an inner city neighborhood? That's not a sustainable situation.

I disagree with you. Yes we should be punished for every mistake that we do.

When i was in high school i busted my ass with my studies and my music. while the other teens just worried about having fun in the short term. I left high school being rated 1 on my instrument in the state and getting a full ride scholarship to my college of choice. Yet again i am at college and i am seeing more of the same Young people just trying to have fun rather than make the most of their circumstances. It sickens me.

People need to understand that each of your own actions has a consequence the best way to teach that lesson is to let them fail and make them work up from there failure.

Lets talk about the single mom situation unless it a divorce how did the situation arise. By her being dumb. If its s divorce then usually they get child support to help them deal with the bills.

Where I grew up, not having money played a large deciding factor as to what sports team you played on, who was in your circle of friends, etc. I was never on the community travel baseball teams because the only kids who got picked were the ones whose parents had money. The same thing happened in high school with the varsity teams. Me and my team were certainly good enough to be part of it, as we beat the living hell out of the travel squad several times in exhibition, but because I wasn't on the prominent teams, I never got a chance at a scholarship. That's not to say you are wrong about hard work paying off, but sometimes there are instances where people are handed a free pass.

It's just like certain people on welfare who believe they deserve the money and other such nonsense. The situation can go both ways. A true hard worker like you and me can always find ways to overcome it. You were fortunate enough to get a scholarship, and I am fortunate enough to have the drive to push past the bullshit. Some don't and their will breaks, so they blame the system.

 

[John Funk]

And yet, those people can vote on whether or not to increase income tax on the rest of us which will then be "redistributed" to them.

Thanks Democrats for giving away so much of my money.

This is why Obama and the rest of his buddies are such twats. Yes, let's take money from those that work hard for it, and give it to people on welfare. Yeah, i realize that a small portion (a VERY small portion) actually need and deserve welfare, but the rest of you, get a job!

I advise you to actually read some sociology case studies. You may be surprised in what you find re: "Getting a job" and upward mobility in this country.

I'm not saying handouts are the solution, but there's so much we could - and should - be putting the same money to, in order to accomplish effectively the same thing.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

And yet, those people can vote on whether or not to increase income tax on the rest of us which will then be "redistributed" to them.

Thanks Democrats for giving away so much of my money.

This is why Obama and the rest of his buddies are such twats. Yes, let's take money from those that work hard for it, and give it to people on welfare. Yeah, i realize that a small portion (a VERY small portion) actually need and deserve welfare, but the rest of you, get a job!

ok and having Bush make it so that rich people who didn't need the money in the first place, ie could stop making money today and not ever have to worry about money again, gets more tax breaks than the poor.

sorry but it wasn't Obama who did this, he's trying to fix it and make it better for those less fortunate and need the money.

seriously rich people should be taxed more because they can afford it.

ok as for people not paying tax, most employers take off income tax on your pay cheque, so what ends up happening is by the end of the year they have paid enough tax that they don't have to actually pay any more to the government and if they're lucky they can get some money back.

up here in Canada we have an option to pay more tax on our pay cheque, which i do, and when tax time rolls around, i get a lot more money back cause i'm charged that extra tax on each pay cheque, it's a nice little bonus

 

[Alex_P]

up here in Canada we have an option to pay more tax on our pay cheque, which i do, and when tax time rolls around, i get a lot more money back cause i'm charged that extra tax on each pay cheque, it's a nice little bonus

You can do that down here, too.

I'm not sure how well-known it is, but it's perfectly legit to fudge down your "deductions" on the W-4 so you get more withheld from each paycheck and then take back a bit at the end of the tax year.

-- Alex

 

[LooK iTz Jinjo]

And yet, those people can vote on whether or not to increase income tax on the rest of us which will then be "redistributed" to them.

Thanks Democrats for giving away so much of my money.

Thanks for giving the rest of the world 8 years of Bush. Cheers Mate! (Y)

 

[Seanchaidh]

*cough* Payroll tax *cough*

-- Alex

What? But income tax is the only tax we ever have to pay. Didn't you get the memo?

I'd also add: sales tax in many states. That's also an incredibly regressive tax structure.

 

[Alex_P]

"Redistribution" is a tricky thing.

When a bank sits on a minimum-wager's paycheck for two days and in order to charge her an "overdraft" fee when she makes a withdrawal, money moves from the poor to the wealthy. Is that redistribution?

When some iconic middle-class working family buys a house and 75% of their mortgage payments go to interest, is that redistribution?

When software on a machine that's co-located with the NYSE servers makes tons and tons of transactions in an attempt to ride minute perturbations in stock price and natural inefficiencies in how trades are processed to create tons of halfway-fictional money which occasionally wipes out the retirement accounts of real people -- who are pretty much obligated to keep that money in the stock market whether they want to or not, -- is that redistribution?

When a private enterprise gets the rights to utilize land, information, or radio waves held "in the public trust", is that redistribution?

When a company uses the profits that its American workers helped it achieve to move all of its manufacturing operations overseas, is that redistribution?

This isn't a one-sided thing, y'all.

-- Alex

 

[joystickjunki3]

Goddam taxes and centralized gov't.

 

[scotth266]

Brief tangential here: Taxes aren't the devil, people. Don't get mad about taxes: rather, get mad about wasteful government spending, earmarks, pork-barrel projects, and the like.

 

[nezroy]

Worth pointing out that around 10% of the households with no or negative tax liability are making more than $50,000 a year. Also, the article briefly mentions the fact that the total is cut in half, to about 24% of households, if you include payroll taxes, which are an important part of how the US decides to set and collect income tax. Before everyone gets their knickers in a twist.

 

[AceDiamond]

Once again people baffle me with complaints about the rich being taxed more, which they should be because they have more. It's not like it's hurting any of the complainers, who I'm guessing don't even fit into the tax bracket that's being taxed more.

Higher taxes on higher income does not discourage people wanting to make more money. I will gladly pay taxes because I believe in the system even if the people in charge of it are often doing things like mis-spending it, which is why I agree with Scott in that wasteful spending and pork-barrel projects are a bigger problem moreso than the taxes themselves.

Also I pay taxes because in some way I'm sticking it to the Unamerican assholes who perverted the original intent and message of the Boston Tea Party with their illogical protests last year. Yes I said Unamerican. Taking the words and actions of the people who created our country and twisting them to justify selfish actions are not the makings of a good citizen.