$60 games - A look at value.

[VanityGirl]

Allow me to share my bit OP.

You can put up your numbers, which I think are a bit off, to be honest, but that still doesn't change the fact that a game is a $60. You're also forgetting to add tax, which is 10% where I live, so a game is actually $66. (Yes, I hate being butt raped by taxes).
A DVD movie is about $10-15 and I can watch that over and over and over again. I could get 100 hours + just by watching a movie over and over agian. I've watched some movies more than I've played some games.

Allow me to show you the differences between shity games and movies:
-Now, if I truly purchases a shitty games for $66, who's to say I'll get 5 hours of gameplay out of it? What if the game is buggy and broken? Wouldn't I have then wasted $66?

-If I go see a movie in theatures, I'll spend $6. Six dollars is the tax I spend on a video game, so if I see a movie that blows, I can just say "meh".

While the movie expeirence may only last 1-3 hours, if its bad, I will only be out $6, but if I buy a shitty game, I'm out by 10 times the amount of money I spent on the movie. DO you see the difference?
Value (for games) is not always about how many hours of gameplay is in it, but how good the game itself is. I mean Portal was a godsend and it's not even 5 hours of gameplay!


Also, the economy blows. It really does. $60 is a lot of money. Hell, for me that's 2 weeks of groceries!

I think the price of game is high. Dropping the price of new games to $40 would undoubtably increasing sales figures. Take a look at Portal 2, the price was dropping to $40 and it sold out at my local gamestop shortly after the pricedrop.

 

[bombadilillo]

If you want to look at value for money compared to how long you get out of a game then you go get an MMO. I bought a 5 year subscription to WWIIOL: Battleground Europe in Oct 2008 and since then i've played it far too much then I should. If we're talking about $ per hour then $500 over 5 years:

$100 year,
$8.3 per month
$0.27777 per day
$0.01157 per hour

And this is for a game which I have played since April 2007, and can play any time I like, with updates happening keeping the game fresh.


I bought Global Agenda last year for $10, and i've sunk 178 hours into it according to Steam (still pales in comparison to WWIIOL) which = $0.056/hour.


So be like me, make sensible purchases and spend no money ever People think $500 is too much to fork out in one go, but the normal subscription for WWIIOL is $14 per month, so that's about $6 saving a month

...thats just...so you play 24/7/365 for 5 years then? Then you didnt get 0.01157 per hour out of it. That doesn't make any sense at all. With you logic any game bought and own could be played over and over forever making it 60$ / infinate time. example. I could have been playing Mario brothers for 15 hours a day since its launch. That drives cost per hour down to appraoching zero.

So MMOs have a very bad money to time ratio by your logic.

Based on your edit you are at 0.24 $ per hour.

 

[DaMullet]

http://www.amazon.com/Gathering-Storm-Wheel-Time/dp/0765341530/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305746280&sr=8-1
I am pretty sure this is a book you need more than 5 hours to read. It took me a week with 6 hours of readin every day, and I am a fast reader. This book costs 10 dollars, and it probably cost 30 dollar on release. That's less than a dollar per hour of enjoyment.
The fact that a game costs 60 dollars is no guarantee that you'll like it, so you might get 1 hour of agonizing boredom from it.
However, I don't really complain about video game prices. I complain about move prices. For the same reasons you mention. The price compared to how long you can enjoy it is laughable. Your numbers are skewed, but your point is valid.

However, the day games reach a 60 dollar price tag on release here I will scream in joy since it means a major price drop from our usual 100 dollar price tag...

About the book though, like you said, on release it was $30 and someone bought it..

Maybe I'm a freak then, cause I chewed through the entire Hitchhikers Guide collection, all the books, in about... 9 hours of reading. I think I get it from my Mom, she's actually read the Wheel of time over and over again and she can get through one of those books in an afternoon.

Your numbers are skewed, but your point is valid.

That's all I was going for

 

[veloper]

Not $60. I spent more like $10 - 20 on average per game.
Steam special sales. Mailorder price cuts.

$60 is bad value for money, compared to better game deals.
Other forms of entertainment are apples to oranges.

 

[philcelery]

-Edit- I took this out because it can't be simplifed like this

None of it can be simplified the way you're doing it. You can't compare money to hour ratios across different mediums. A 20 hour blu-ray movie for 30 dollars wouldn't be a better "value" than a 20 hour video game for 60 dollars, because there is no value in a 20 hour movie, just a horrible and unedited waste of film.

 

[DaMullet]

Allow me to show you the differences between shity games and movies:
-Now, if I truly purchases a shitty games for $66, who's to say I'll get 5 hours of gameplay out of it? What if the game is buggy and broken? Wouldn't I have then wasted $66?

-If I go see a movie in theatures, I'll spend $6. Six dollars is the tax I spend on a video game, so if I see a movie that blows, I can just say "meh".

While the movie expeirence may only last 1-3 hours, if its bad, I will only be out $6, but if I buy a shitty game, I'm out by 10 times the amount of money I spent on the movie. DO you see the difference?
Value (for games) is not always about how many hours of gameplay is in it, but how good the game itself is. I mean Portal was a godsend and it's not even 5 hours of gameplay!

I do see the difference.

So its not the $60 for a good game, its risking $60 for a crappy game. Hmmm... *thinks*

I can see how it is a problem, but I still don't see it being a HUGE problem. I mean how many game reviewers are there now? Heck you can come on here and ask "should I buy this game?"

*needs to ponder this some more*

 

[Yopaz]

http://www.amazon.com/Gathering-Storm-Wheel-Time/dp/0765341530/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305746280&sr=8-1
I am pretty sure this is a book you need more than 5 hours to read. It took me a week with 6 hours of readin every day, and I am a fast reader. This book costs 10 dollars, and it probably cost 30 dollar on release. That's less than a dollar per hour of enjoyment.
The fact that a game costs 60 dollars is no guarantee that you'll like it, so you might get 1 hour of agonizing boredom from it.
However, I don't really complain about video game prices. I complain about move prices. For the same reasons you mention. The price compared to how long you can enjoy it is laughable. Your numbers are skewed, but your point is valid.

However, the day games reach a 60 dollar price tag on release here I will scream in joy since it means a major price drop from our usual 100 dollar price tag...

About the book though, like you said, on release it was $30 and someone bought it..

Maybe I'm a freak then, cause I chewed through the entire Hitchhikers Guide collection, all the books, in about... 9 hours of reading. I think I get it from my Mom, she's actually read the Wheel of time over and over again and she can get through one of those books in an afternoon.

Your numbers are skewed, but your point is valid.

That's all I was going for

Well, The Hitchhiker series is a pretty easy read, that barely took me any time to read either. This book however is quite heavy on content. There are things there that need time to sink in. The whole series revolves around politics and intrigues to gain power or wealth while that being far from the main plot. The audio book lasts 36 hours, and an avid reader should be able to clear that in 9 hours by reading the words. However the depth requires more thought behind, it requires the reader to reflect upon the material. Most will need at least 30 hours on clearing this book, and in any case, that's good value since all the layers does make it worth to reread at least once. The same goes for The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy. One of the best series ever, and also the world's longest trilogy according to the cover.

 

[DaMullet]

-Edit- I took this out because it can't be simplifed like this

None of it can be simplified the way you're doing it. You can't compare money to hour ratios across different mediums. A 20 hour blu-ray movie for 30 dollars wouldn't be a better "value" than a 20 hour video game for 60 dollars, because there is no value in a 20 hour movie, just a horrible and unedited waste of film.

Yes you can actually.

Because if you want to do something new and you have a day (10 hours) to yourself a movie is only going to last 2 hours. So you would have to buy 5 movies to fill the time unless you want to watch it again after just watching it. A book or 2 would work, but personally speaking, I have to be in the right mood to sit for 10 hours reading.

If you get a game, you might beat it, you might not, you might not even get half way though it. If you don't beat it that day, want to play it again, or both, that's added value to your purchase because you can have fun with it for longer.

See what I mean?

 

[VanityGirl]

I do see the difference.

So its not the $60 for a good game, its risking $60 for a crappy game. Hmmm... *thinks*

I can see how it is a problem, but I still don't see it being a HUGE problem. I mean how many game reviewers are there now? Heck you can come on here and ask "should I buy this game?"

*needs to ponder this some more*

Moot point.
What is good for one gamer may not be good for the next. So you're saying that if I follow all the reviews I've seen on the game and buy it, that I'll love it?
Me thinks that's not true. I HATED GTAIV but it was praised by many. I felt like I'd wasted $60.

Don't get me wrong OP, I can see where you're coming from, but my opinion is different.
Both your and my ideas are based on assumption, i.e. that the person will play a shitty game for 5 hours.

And my ideas are based heavily on the fact that I buy my own games. Juggling that with feeding myself, keeping a roof over my head and paying for my utilities, video games can be an expensive hobby.

 

[GonzoGamer]

Not many books can be read in 5 hours. Also not many books just say "The quick brown fox shoots someone in the face with a laser gun" over and over and over again. Many games are like that.

The problem about the expense of games is that you can spend $60 on a game that sucks. It's a greater gamble than a cd or dvd or any other entertainment media.

But it can have a greater reward too: I got many hours of entertainment out of Fallout 3 and Borderlands. Those two games are well worth $60.
The problem is that I get tired of most games after 3 or 4 hours because (let's face it) most of them suck.
But that's why I rent.

 

[Jack Macaque]

I miss the days when 60$ for a game like Banjo-Kazooie or Perfect Dark or Dark Cloud or Final Fantasy Tactics would give you what 15 years of enjoyment, games today a great until the updated also 60$ one comes out 8 months later.

I hate sports games for this.

 

[meryatathagres]

So... Why the hate for the $60 tag? I must be missing something...

Basicly because they want 60 bucks for less budget and production values than an AAA movie. Yeah you might like to play it for longer, but nothing changes theat the videogame overhead is insanely high.
Now you missed prostitutes. 60 bucks = 1 hour of heaven if you have a good one.

 

[DaMullet]

Moot point.
What is good for one gamer may not be good for the next. So you're saying that if I follow all the reviews I've seen on the game and buy it, that I'll love it?
Me thinks that's not true. I HATED GTAIV but it was praised by many. I felt like I'd wasted $60.

Don't get me wrong OP, I can see where you're coming from, but my opinion is different.
Both your and my ideas are based on assumption, i.e. that the person will play a shitty game for 5 hours.

And my ideas are based heavily on the fact that I buy my own games. Juggling that with feeding myself, keeping a roof over my head and paying for my utilities, video games can be an expensive hobby.

Hey, I buy my own games too. I'm also a single-father and a small business owner so I understand how tight money can be.

But you should know what you like and what you don't like. If you're not sure there are always demos or just rent it. I borrowed GTA:San Andras because i wasn't sure I'd like it and I found that I absolutedly hated it. I know I don't like sports games, or overly violent ones either.

So regardless as too how much those games cost, I'm never going to buy them.

But I can definatly see the risk. If your budget for games is like $30 a month, you don't want to save up for 2 months just to find out you hate the game and after an hour want to throw it out a window.

When I buy a game, I reseach it, watch videos, read reviews, wait for patches to be released (I'm looking at you new vegas), even sometimes read the walkthrough for the first chapter on gamefaqs.com to see if the story is totally stupid or not. So when I drop $60 on a game, I know its going to be the best chance for me and last me longer then any movie or night out can posibly hope to compare too.

If I don't like it, I still try to make the most of it. Learn what they did wrong for example so that I know what I don't like and keep an eye open for it in other games.

I don't own a PS3 or and XBOX because I can find enough games that I would like to justify the purchase of the system. I'm mainly a PC gamer and I love my wii cause I can play it with my 9 year old son.

I think I'm rambling so I'll stop now...

 

[philcelery]

Yes you can actually.

Because if you want to do something new and you have a day (10 hours) to yourself a movie is only going to last 2 hours. So you would have to buy 5 movies to fill the time unless you want to watch it again after just watching it. A book or 2 would work, but personally speaking, I have to be in the right mood to sit for 10 hours reading.

If you get a game, you might beat it, you might not, you might not even get half way though it. If you don't beat it that day, want to play it again, or both, that's added value to your purchase because you can have fun with it for longer.

See what I mean?

No I don't, because if I want to see a movie I'm doing so with the understanding of what the medium is and I know it's only going to be 2 hours. If that's not enough time consumption to satisfy me, then I'm not in the mood for a movie. If I'm in the mood for a big movie watching session that does last 10 hours and I do decide to buy 5 movies, then those 5 movies are infinitely more valuable to me than what a video game is because I didn't want to play video games, I was clearly in a huge movie watching mood. Never have I bought an apple on the basis that the selection of oranges weren't red enough.

 

[Wolfram23]

I'm not saying it should cost $14, but that is what it would cost to cover making the game. Perhaps that's what retail outlets buy it for? Retail markup of 100% it's $28... We're still paying more than double that.

Have you looked at how much running a successful ad campaign is?

Also, let's say there's 50 people on the team for 2 years making an average of $40k a year. With things like WSIB (Worker's comp) and taxes and such its probably costing the company $50-60k a year to have that one employee.

So $50k x 50 people x 2 years = $5 Million

So there's half of the profit right there. Then add on office space, computer upgrades, advertising, etc and that 10 million is easily spent.

Umm... so? I said it's a 10 million dollar game. If you can't make and advertise a game for 10 million you're doing something wrong... or making a super epic game. Let's just say it IS a super epic game and it costs 20 million to make over 2 years. It would probably have more than 1 million sales but we'll stick with that, and the same 40% profit margin.

20,000,000x1.4/1,000,000=$28

So then retail markup (which, BTW, can be eliminated in this day and age of Digital Downloads) is 100% (an obscene amount for most industries) that's $56... So either publishers or retail is really screwing it's customers over. If the game was going to sell 1.5 million copies, it's back down to $18.66 per copy, or under $40 at retail with 100% markup.

I think one problem is that retailers are basically guaranteed $60 per copy, so publishers are guaranteed whatever portion of that (50%?), and they have a rough idea what sort of sales they'll get with a given game - probably a large reason for the lack of new titles, by the way. They know how they're games already sell so they can project how a new version will sell. Easier than guessing how a new IP will sell...

Anyway, point is, there's no competition in the space. They don't try to optimize game making because their budgets are fairly bloated. I mean they cut down costs hugely going to CD from cartridge, and now they don't even need that. They just need some server bandwidth to sell it online! Ad campaigns? Well sure, but plenty of games don't have much of one and still become super popular just by uploading a few gameplay videos and letting some popular gaming reps play a demo, who then go write about it for the masses to drool over.

My point is, $60 isn't always unreasonable, but the lack of competitive pricing for the most part is unreasonable. I doubt CoD expansions - sorry, I mean new Cod Games are costing millions upon millions of dollars to make with their yearly outings and using the same old tech yet they still sell them for $60 (because they can). Gamers get screwed, but quite often we let ourselves get screwed.

 

[Frasman]

Video Game
$60 / 15 hours = $4 per hour

Epic Video Game
$60 / 100 hours = $0.60 per hour

-Edit- I added this in for further comparison
Poor Video Game
$60 / 5 hours = $12 per hour

Night out
$100 / 6 Hours = $16.67 per hour

Blu-Ray Movie
$30 / 1.75 hours = $17.14 Per hour

Movie at the Theatre
$12 / 1.75 hours = $6.88 Per hour

Music Album
$20 / 1 hour = $20 Per hour
-Edit- I took this out because it can't be simplifed like this

Novel
$15 / 5 Hours = $3 per hour
(Cost Reference - http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/top-50-books/
I've also spent myself upto $35 for a book that I REALLY wanted)

As you can see, on a cost per hour of enjoyment, even short video games are one of the best bangs for your buck.

So... Why the hate for the $60 tag? I must be missing something...

OP, you spend way more than you need to on books and blurays (you also only read very short books). Seriously, I've never spent more than $10 on a book short enough to be read in 5 hours and I've never spent more than $20 on a bluray movie.

You seriously need to shop around more so you stop getting ripped off.

Keep in mind OP talking about Canadian Pricing (judging by the link provided). We get screwed on stuff like this eventhough our dollar is now worth more than the yanks.

 

[Veylon]

Are we really dragging numbers into this again? Game companies don't charge what it costs to make a game, they charge what they think will get them the maximum profit. Otherwise, I could make the case that I got ripped off paying $10 for Terraria when it clearly did not cost one-sixth what Starcraft 2 did.

It's like tickets to sporting events: as long as fans are willing to pay more, companies will charge more. Ultimately, customers are reaping the results of their indiscriminate spending. When people plunk down $60 for a game, they're voting with their wallets to say that they consider it to be worth at least that much.

 

[Asuka Soryu]

Games like Kayne and Lynch 2 are proof why 60$ for a game is to much. There's no gurantee you'll enjoy the game you pay for and you could end up with a Kayne and Lynch 2.

4 hours of ass. I think the fact that uncompleate games, way-to-short games and just plain bad games that can get away for saling at 60$ with no way of knowing you'll like or hate the game until you actually try it is the reason why this is bad.


Games can be 60$ the moment there's a quality and length required before they can sale it and demos that showcase a good idea of what the game's like in an easy way to obtain for everyone. Either that, or when we're in the future and 60$ is a kids spending change. lol

 

[tombman888]

$20 for 532 hours and still counting.... TF2 is definitely worth it.