69: Is Rape Wrong on Azeroth?

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jamesmcm

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Sep 4, 2007
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Boucaner said:
The best way to make moral choices mean something is to create a game that can only be played through once. That way, even though the world is only virtual, you still have to live with the consequences of your actions. Just like real life.
Most Rogue-likes are like that, perhaps they should just make a 3D, easier rogue-like or just make the next Elder Scrolls game deeper than Oblivion with factions, etc..

As for are players evil in RL because they are in the game. I don't think so, I mainly play evil characters to laugh at the acting, etc. ( the same reason i watch horror movies) and it's always different whereas most good sides of games tend to be similar and very predictable.

But with games like GTA:SA i think something needs to be done, because we don't have a problem with orc-killers in our society but we do have a problem with gang violence and that game definitely glorified gang violence.
 

Copter400

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Sep 14, 2007
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Hegar said:
Have you played any of the Geneforge series? Spectactular games, imo, with a really solid morality to it as well. Ultima IV I felt forced into 'virtues' and what not, and it all seemed a touch simplistic. Geneforge though, has let choose morality, but without making ersorting to the kind of Lawful Good vs Chaotic Evil thing you get in a lot of RPGs. The thing I like best is that there are often a few axis of morality at work, usually Control vs Freedom and Responsiblity vs Power. So you can stand up for the rights of the serviles, but still end up a power-mad psychopath, or you can treat them as naught but slaves to do your bidding, but still stand up to the irresponsible use of your powers.
These shades of morality, and the ability to take moral action while following an immoral course, make for a great gaming experience - especially because the choices occur in the context of such a richly fleshed out world and culture (for a Computer RPG, for sure).

I think that, yeah, simply imposing a moral system on a game is a terrible idea. Games in which a pre-defined set of 'bad' actions always have a negative effect, and vie cersa for 'good' actions, are often preachy, patronising, and boring.
That said, I do worry equally about games like GTA, in which bad actions rarely ever have negative consequences, and good ones rarely have positive consequences - and the cases in which they do are mainly in cinematic parts where the player is not making a choice.

The best way i think to handle it, which is done in the Geneforge series, and a bit in Fallout as well, is that, like in life, both ethical and unethical actions will sometimes result in immediate rewards or penalties, as well as long term rewards or penalties, depending on the situation and the characters affected. As in life, you can profit from good or profit from evil, in different ways, so you can play the game however you want. Then at the end (and don't get me wrong, I'm an athiest) your choices all come back to haunt you, as they dictate which of the myriad of endings you get, and you get the satisfaction of seeing the consequences of your actions.

For me, Fallout and Geneforge will always have something over even the most sophisticated MMO that lacks the scope for moral choice at that kind of level. It's failing to capture an important element of stories, and failing to engage a vital element of what makes us humans.
I agree completely, and not just because I absolutley love Geneforge. Consequences for your actions shouldn't be immediate changes to gameplay, they should be more subtle.
 

keithburgun

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Aug 1, 2007
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as far as I'm concerned, all you players are being utterly raped by paying a subscription fee for that terrible piece of software i dare not call a game.
 

JamesG

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Feb 17, 2008
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@KeithBurgan
Right. And you didn't read the article did you? How do I know this? Because other than the mention of Azeroth in the title, the article never even mentioned World of Warcraft. So in future, if your going to troll, at least put a time investment in so you can do it believeably. This was you just come across as a bit of a numpty.

Interpreting the morality of a game is interesting, as well as the internal morality, there is also a way for the game to be considered in the real world. For example, when reading a film or watching a book, it is possible for the story to reflect racism, or to actually be racist. Of course, sometimes its difficult to tell exactly which it is, and ofen I've found myself wondering if the main protagonist(s) is meant to be a complete asshat, or it is just my moral foundings that make them appear that way. When yo further throw in interepretation of less straightforward parts of the text then it gets even more complicated.

Games however have yeat another layer, user action. As gamers get more choice, and as worlds become more dynamic you allow the player comit increasingly amoral acts, and sometimes will end up rewarding them for it. What is the player, and what is the game. And furthermore, just because a game allows a player to do something, or even endorses it, does this indicate an endorsement of the actions outside the game world. (I think most players would argue no, and although I think I agree, there have been times in games where I've felt very uncomoftable taking a particular action.)

ETA: Whoops, totaly didn't notice the date on this article. Sorry for that folks.