8 Bit Philosophy: Is The American Dream A Sham?

[Lazule]

Nope not real at all. Its a nice ideal but unrealistic at best, it made the US popular for a while through but in the end is just a sham.

But countries would be worse off with Communism. Capitalism right now is the meta since everyone is competing, the ones that have a true mastery over it are the Chinese more specifically Shanghai. They are going to be the world #1 Economic Power in the future no doubt.

The freedom of market there is quite nice. Which is ironic since the governing party in China has its roots in Communism, they realized the system didn't work and went full meta and now they are kicking-ass economically.

You do realise there's never been a communist state on run to true communist ideals right? confusing dictatorships and fascist police states with communism is a trick coined by the US to create a global threat to consolidate power after the second world war. Also since you brought up China, there is the perfect example of what's wrong with capitalism, 99% of the population poor and exploited working in extremely low paid jobs while the less than 1% are making vast sums of money off their backs.

Except that Shanghai is growing and there are less poor Chinese people the more it does. China was waaaay waaaaay poorer during the Communist Maoism. China wouldn't be so powerful atm if they didn't used Capitalism the way they are doing it.

And I know... "dictatorship" you will say well I agree but its a lot easier to have a dictatorship in a communist goverment, way easier they just lower the salaries of everyone else and the party members rise their own. *Bam* there you go is that easy since they control most of the economy not the private people, since there is not a private property sector.

I'm not praising Capitalism tho I know its flaws and I know why it can crash on the long term but it is a lot better than communism, just for the simple private property and freedom of market there is. Maybe someday something better, new and fresh will replace this economic meta.

At best, China is trying on a Capitalist shoes to see if it's worth buying the rest of the outfit. That is the depth of the capitalism in China right now - superficial and non-committal.

I like that analogy. Those shoes are Shanghai and they are kicking-ass with them. I'm highly interested in what will happen with the rest of China in 20 years from now I'm quite sure they will take the #1 economic super power spot.

 

[Strazdas]

its always been a sham. an idea sold to people so they would work had for your profits and complain less.

Amusing how it's basically an Authoritarian/Socialist dictatorship in China that is making a perfect example of the ills of Capitalism.

Yeah, the American/Western style capitalism SUCKS. But there's an honesty to it that you just don't find elsewhere, and there's a chance it'll be fixed before it implodes.

not really conidering that China is capitalist dictatorship with a fancy title. Its as much socialist as Soviet union was communist - that is in name only.

you cant fix capitalism. capitalism is broken as a concept.

You can argue about how close China is to your idea of socialism, but to say that it's not socialist is... well, frankly it's like saying that Mormon's aren't Christian. They're Christians - just not the mainstream Christians. And trying to call it a CAPITALIST dictatorship is a just a step away from utter insanity. It's barely capitalistic right now - maybe in 20 years it will be a point of legitimate debate, but right now China is still a country where a single party - the Communist Party of China - has essentially absolute power over the nation and everything in it and is merely allowing people (the "correct" people for the most part) to run aspects of the economy they are willing to be run with less oversight than other area's. And if the CPC decides that something needs to come back under CPC direct control there is little to nothing that can be done to stop it.

At best, China is trying on a Capitalist shoes to see if it's worth buying the rest of the outfit. That is the depth of the capitalism in China right now - superficial and non-committal.

It is a dictatorship because as you say a single party is ruling the country and its leader is a doctator. the fact that the party likes to call itself silly names is irrelevant. the mere fact that the party has absolute power is in direct contradiction to communism.

Now, china is very heavily capitalistic. vast majority of transactions that happen there are based on capitalism principles and thats why companies move capital there - its capitalism with less socialistic needs.

And yes, CPC being a dictatorship is what makes them able to nationalize anything.

China is more capitalist than most western countries.

And I know... "dictatorship" you will say well I agree but its a lot easier to have a dictatorship in a communist goverment, way easier they just lower the salaries of everyone else and the party members rise their own. *Bam* there you go is that easy since they control most of the economy not the private people, since there is not a private property sector.

It is impossible to have a dictatorship in communist government because dictaotrships are in direct contradiction to communism.

 

[Antidragon4185]

My ancestors were Belgium and germen immigrants who fled WWI and the German economic collapse that came later. They were destitute when they arrived. My (paternal) great grandfather managed to start a farm, and it provided a livelihood good enough for my farther to go into law school.

He's now a lawyer who represents employee interest.

I don't care how many cynical pessimists or textbook philosophers say that upward mobility is a sham; my family experienced it first hand, and it is very, VERY real.

 

[Antidragon4185]

The American Dream is the epitome of the lie that is capitalism. Work hard and it can all be yours? how exactly? are you going to pay the nurses, firemen, police, teachers, sewage workers, street cleaners, garbage men, construction workers, farmers etc $150,000pa? the people society needs to function are poor and the people who grease the wheels of capitalism like bankers, hedge fund managers and stock brokers are given in a one years bonus what a ER nurse will earn in their career.

Speaking as someone whose family had directly benefited from hard work and gained upward mobility, I find this claim hard to believe. Especially since my Grandfather is one of the "poor" people (he owns a farm on the outskirts of Milwaukee) And my father is one of the "rich" ones (A lawyer for MichaelBest&Friedrich) How would you explain two people from the same family occupying both the demographics you just mentioned?

The number of times you see human advancement held back because it would cost to much, or there's no profit in it, money is an idiotic human invention and it will probably be the death of us.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you've thought this through.

-Money is a store of value, (the value of goods deteriorate many times faster than currency inflates)
-Money allows for there to be a standard market value (there would be no price tags, and establishing a value to goods would be mush harder.)
-Money removes the need for a double coincidence in every transaction you make. (I.E You grow apples for a living, and you really REALLY need coats for the winter, but the person who sells coats HATES apples and wont accept what you offer.)

Honestly, if you get rid of money, the poor would suffer far more than the rich; the rich have trade routes and connections established, whereas buying a load of groceries would be nearly impossible.

 

[martyrdrebel27]

EVERYBODY! the picture put up right at the start when he says "white picket fence" is from an NES game called Deja Vu. it was kinda like a lucas arts adventure game, but different... i dunno, hard to explain, but it was super fun and i think it might be kinda obscure, and i was super excited to see it used, and i wanted to share that.