91 year old sentenced to jail for his role in killing Jews.

[SillyBear]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43002291/ns/world_news-europe/t/john-demjanjuk-found-guilty-helping-kill-jews-nazi-camp/

Personally I find this stupid. Being Jewish, my grandma told me plenty of stories of her escape and the family members that our family lost to the Nazis though putting a 91 year old in jail for it? I don't agree. Personally whats done is done and everyone needs to move on from it. I hope this sentence gets thrown out and they let the guy go, looks like hes barely pulling through as is. Don't think he would survive the 5 years in jail.

What do you guys think? Is it time to forgive what was done and move on? Most of the Nazis are gonna be dead soon anyways.

He was finally caught. Let him spend his last years in a filthy cell reflecting on the horror he caused to all those people.


You think he should be allowed to continue his life in freedom, doing as he wants, after all the things he participated in? I don't think there should ever be a time constraint to punish the people that participated in exterminating millions of people.

The man is 91. Hes gonna die anyway soon. Did you see his pictures? Dude looks half dead already, whats the point of throwing him in jail now?

To prove a point.

You can't commit a crime, wait a few years and have it be cleared just because it happened a while ago.

Explain to me exactly what crime he committed? He wasn't found to be guilty to anything. They threw him in jail for a job he was made to do seventy years ago. Wow, you are really proving a point there! Because, let's be honest, you would have done exactly the same thing as he would. He is a young man, conscripted into the army and assigned to be a prison guard. But oh no, you would have ran away and rescued the prisoners! Wouldn't you?

 

[SirDoom]

Considering he was tried several years ago for the murder of thousands of people... then yes, he deserves to be in jail. People, this guy was previously tried with the name "Ivan The Terrible". I'm pretty sure he didn't give flowers to the Jewish people in the concentration camps.
This same guy was also at one time on the most wanted Nazi criminal list according to the article.

...did you also read the part where it said new evidence was found that exonerated him in that case? In other words, he was proven innocent of that charge. To say that he should be in jail because of this would be like saying a person who was accused of murder but proven innocent should still be locked up. It doesn't work like that.
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Honestly, I'm shocked at the level of hate Nazis get. Don't get me wrong, they did horrible things. But in this thread, I'm seeing a lot of blind hatred. An "Every Nazi should rot in prison" mentality, if you will. That's just... wrong.

Sure, you've got the guys in charge of everything. The officers, the sick and twisted men in charge, the truly ruthless. You may have a case against them. But the lowliest members? Those who were captured and forced to work for the party? Those who had little to no hand in the inner workings of the party or the mass killings?

I'm sure even they feel guilty, for whatever reason. But should the people who stood and watched as the trains carried people into the camps still be universally hated? Should the lowly guard whose job was to hand out the tiny scraps of bread be hated? They did have a part in something that was very bad, and they've likely lived in regret because of it since then, but it was hardly their fault. The people in those lowly positions shouldn't be tried in this way unless there is some definite proof that they were truly terrible people, and not just victims of circumstance. (Proof which, might I add, is apparently absent in this case)

 

[dogenzakaminion]

Considering that the US is saying that the former sovjet KGB faked the evidence, I don't know where to stand. No, it is not time to forget and forgive. We must never forget, and if he is guilty, justice should be served regardless. I will say this though; it is time for the German nation to be proud of themselves again. They should be able to sing their (edited) version of the national anthem, they should be able to wave their flag and they should be able to do so without feeling ashamed of themselves or their country.

 

[SillyBear]

, he was forced to do his part thus they are thinking about sending someone at 91 years old into prison.

People need to stop saying that and research it. He may not be who they say he is, but if he is who they claim he is then he is not some poor german guy who got stuck standing at a post where they told him to stand. This guy is one of the really bad guys, a truely cruel and evil man who went beyond what other geman soliders even in the camps did.

Dude was a guard. He may have been vehemently pro-Nazi, or he just may have been following orders. It's impossible to know. But did he actually commit any war crimes? It's not like every single German soldier during WW2 was sent to prison. What makes this guy so special?

My gut instinct? Show some mercy.

No, he was not "just a guard". Seriously did no one look into this before commenting? He had a reputation for being unusually cruel and revelling in torturing prisoners.

No he did not. This is completely false. He was tried for that in Israel and was exonerated by a Jewish court. There was no evidence at all to suggest he was, and he was found guilty in Germany through guilt by association. "He was there" was all they had on him.


He was a POW made to work as a prison guard. Get off your high horse. We all would have done exactly the same thing as he did - so don't act like you would have saved the day and rescued all the prisoners. Under his context, you would have just put your head down and do what you were told too. This is a clear case of someone being punished because they were on the losing team - without even meaning to be.

 

[blackwlf]

Don't go to the link for the newspost. The website hit me with a virus as soon as I went.

 

[coolkirb]

Bullets are cheap.

Yeah...about that. Not many people actually execute people with a bullet to the brain. Not legally anyway. You're also overlooking the cost of appeals, those courts cases, th lawer, the opposing lawyer, the jury, the judge, the court reporter, the stenographer, and so forth and so on. Executing someone isn't cheap, fast, or easy as far as the legal system is concerned.

Don't believe me? Look it up. Sadly, my research paper on the death penalty is long since gone, and so are my sources.

I thought you could still be executed in the States by fireing squad, but only if you ask for that to be your method of execution.

 

[coolkirb]

Oh Also this reminds me of the Adolf Ichman (spelling?) case.

As for the actual conviction it is most likey Isreal trying to make its young people know the relevence of the holcaust.

 

[NEVRINx54]

Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.

 

[Burnswell]

"intolerance for intolerance is intolerance"
Are you kidding?
This is a really pathetic wordgame you hear from people who don't want bigoted views challenged, its changing the meaning of intolerance mid sentence hoping to fool people without a strong grasp of grammar.
It's easy to check, just change the word for what you actually mean and see if it makes sense.

"intolerance for sexism is intolerance"
So treating woman and men as equals is intolerance using the "intolerance for intolerance is intolerance" line.

 

[MasterOfWorlds]

I thought you could still be executed in the States by fireing squad, but only if you ask for that to be your method of execution.

You can in one or two states if I recall correctly. Like I said earlier, my research paper is long since gone, and I no longer have the sources. I think you have to request it and a few other things have to happen as well. I might be wrong though, it's been almost two years since the paper. Hell, I think they still have hanging as an execution method in a state or two, but it's kind of the same deal.

 

[Doctor Glocktor]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43002291/ns/world_news-europe/t/john-demjanjuk-found-guilty-helping-kill-jews-nazi-camp/

Personally I find this stupid. Being Jewish, my grandma told me plenty of stories of her escape and the family members that our family lost to the Nazis though putting a 91 year old in jail for it? I don't agree. Personally whats done is done and everyone needs to move on from it. I hope this sentence gets thrown out and they let the guy go, looks like hes barely pulling through as is. Don't think he would survive the 5 years in jail.

What do you guys think? Is it time to forgive what was done and move on? Most of the Nazis are gonna be dead soon anyways.

He was finally caught. Let him spend his last years in a filthy cell reflecting on the horror he caused to all those people.


You think he should be allowed to continue his life in freedom, doing as he wants, after all the things he participated in? I don't think there should ever be a time constraint to punish the people that participated in exterminating millions of people.

The man is 91. Hes gonna die anyway soon. Did you see his pictures? Dude looks half dead already, whats the point of throwing him in jail now?

To prove a point.

You can't commit a crime, wait a few years and have it be cleared just because it happened a while ago.

Explain to me exactly what crime he committed? He wasn't found to be guilty to anything. They threw him in jail for a job he was made to do seventy years ago. Wow, you are really proving a point there! Because, let's be honest, you would have done exactly the same thing as he would. He is a young man, conscripted into the army and assigned to be a prison guard. But oh no, you would have ran away and rescued the prisoners! Wouldn't you?

Easy there, buddy. I know that your morals are obviously superior to mine, given that outburst that had nothing to do with what I said, but still, this isn't about punishing some old douchebag for being a Nazi.

The simply fact is, its NOT okay to have a crime you committed erased simply because your old. But given your clearly superior stance, I'd love for you to explain your thoughts on this.

 

[silversnake4133]

I agree with you OP. I believe this is stupid, for the sheer fact that it won't prove anything. Seriously what is to gain out of putting a 91-year-old man in prison for something that was resolved over 60 years ago? Besides, keeping grudges and opening old wounds only causes pain and suffering where it is not wanted.

After all, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. And I personally believe that those of whom continue to look back never notice the cliff they are about to walk off of.

 

[SillyBear]

The simply fact is, its NOT okay to have a crime you committed erased simply because your old.

Who ever said it was? No one is suggesting that. If this man was thirty I would still object to this. It's completely ridiculous and is carried out by brainwashed morons who are too busy masturbating over their hatred of the holocaust that their judgement is completely taken away from them. You can't convict someone just because they were there. And yes, the only "proof" they had that this man was an evil Nazi-Jew killer was that he was there. This should have been laughed out of court, but instead, a grudge took over and they have taken away this shell of a man's last few years of peace.

Complete kangaroo court.

I loved the bit when the prosecution admitted they didn't actually have any proof at all. Yeah, because who cares about proof when we can call someone a Nazi? Lock him away!

I'm sorry if I am coming across as angry here, but well, I am. This stuff shits me to tears. People are so god damn stupid in the name of "justice". This only hurts the issue. It doesn't bring anyone back, it doesn't avenge the atrocities of the holocaust. And let's be honest, you would have done the exact same thing as him. 99% of us would have. He did not seek this. He just kept his head down and did what he was told.

I'm all for punishing people who helped plain or fuel the fire of the holocaust - but can't we at least punish the right people? Or, can't we at least strive to find proof? Apparently not.

If this is your idea of "proving a point" then that is terribly upsetting.

 

[Xero Scythe]

Upon reading the article, it's clear that he should not even be in this situation.

There isn't even any proof of his guilt. The entire case is built on an id card that might be fake anyway. Even if it's not fake, there's no proof that he was directly responsible for anything.

This case wouldn't stand up in US courts, and for good reason.

Are you joking? In a US court, forget not standing, this trial wouldn't even go through- it would be double jeopardy. The article states he was already tried for the very same crime of "being a Nazi"- heavy emphasis on the quotes- more than a generation earlier. Even then, he would be innocent, as St. Thomas More would put it, from a law "outlawed by abrogation."

 

[icame]

I just clapped. As in, in real life. Let him spend his last few years in hell. It's a small justice for what he did.

That. Time doesn't heal all wounds. Just as time does not erase all injustices. If I believed in a hell I would wish for this man to burn in it eternally. He deserves anything he gets.