A bit of a philosophical type of question....(2 cents welcome)
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Quite frankly I think that thats a really bad comparison, and in reality look at religious fanatics(not meant to be offensive) who would willing give up their lives for their god(s) in an instant. Now i'm not trying to say that all religious groups are like this but you tell me who cares more about their life, the athiest or the fanatic who would kill/die for their god(s).Cheeze_Pavilion said:
As for rape, it's the principle of the thing. You do realize that fundamentalists like Palin are even opposed to rape-abortions because they thinkg "the child can be given up to adoption afterwards", totally disregarding the stress the mother has to go through 9 months of her life, further scarring her psychically.Samurai Goomba said:
And the bolded part isn't true, they're actually the majority of late-term abortions (which are what most people are upset about). Late-term abortions with a fully developed fetus aren't hastily done like you make it seem.
As for early-term abortions (the large majority of abortions in general) I just don't get why you want to have people ruining their lives because they made a mistake. It's a clump of cells without a brain, feelings, consciousness, anything. It's like scratching off a few skin cells with your finger nail.
I can fully understand people who are opposed to late-term abortions, hell, I even sort of agree with that (unless there's a serious enough reason to do so). But they make up the vastly minor number of all abortions.
Because we're living in democratic states where minorities have to be protected?
And why is abortion making "the majority" suffering? Who are you talking about? The fetuses?
Theists would give up, seeing as death is only the beginning to them.
Some atheists (like me) would fight tooth and nail to stay alive
Some atheists (like me) would fight tooth and nail to stay alive
Well that mite depend on the person in question specifically. An atheist might think, well this is it, i better make the nest of it. But a deeply religious person might think that every second is a precious gift from god (or gods) and i shall not waste a second of it (or even view life from a every sperm is sacred sort of view). But of course it could be the opposite. The atheist could think think that in the end it all comes down to nothing and the religious person could think that in the end all that matters in the afterlife.
Oh yeah, and the "reply" button does nothing. IDK what its even for. If you hit the quote button people will know you responded to them. Just FYI.Chaos Theory said:
Alright, let's just say I'm opposed to late-term abortions in most situations and move to the early term stuff.Skeleon said:
How does it ruin somebody's life to have a kid and put it up for adoption? I realize pregnancy is very painful, but many women seem to be able to manage it just fine. And no, after the moment of conception, a fertilized egg is NOT directly comparable to a few skin flakes. The skin cells will not develop into a fully-functioning member of society given time. The fetus will.
And again, how is it a "mistake" to have a child? You don't have to keep it-that's what adoption agencies are for. Why should the child suffer for the parent's stupidity? (Keeping in mind that I'm referring to the majority of early-term abortions, which do not involve the mother's life being at stake or the possibility of rape.)
Yes. The fetuses which, given time, will become human beings like you and me. Every person alive on this planet once was one. We should be thankful our parents did not consider us mistakes. Or, if they did, that they at least allowed us to live long enough to find people who cared about us.
Besides, it makes no mathematical sense to punish those with more years yet to live over those who've had a good 15+ years already to prove their worth to society. It's not my choice to make, but I'd take the kid's life over the mother's any day of the week, purely on the child's potential. The mother we already have the measure of, but the child could be another Einstein. Why sacrifice that?
Too late.Samurai Goomba said:
I already see the generalizations coming in....
As it has been pointed out before, neither side is more or less likely too cherish life more. It all depends on the person and their own choices.
*sigh*
Why do I even bother?
To be honest there are both extreme atheists and theists who can be said to hold their beliefs highly value. However niether of them puts human life at a higher value, some churches allow abortion and some atheists think the idea of abortion is horrid. Look at Henry VIII, he was given the title of defender of the faith but went to a rediculous amount of wars and beheaded two wives? How much a person values a life is completely down to the person and they're belief system, whether they are an atheist, theist or believe in the spaghetti monster doesn't dictate on what they should believe about a human life. Yes religion especially the christian church as i know that one best has the 10 commandments but just look back in history for an answer whether people follow that or not. Its impossible to do a generalised statement about two groups which are diverse in their ideals, it is entirely down to that singular person as to whether they value the human life or not, wether they follow christian teachings or any other traditions.
edit: i apologise if this makes no sense what so ever, a coffee fix is needed before fully working functions occur.
edit: i apologise if this makes no sense what so ever, a coffee fix is needed before fully working functions occur.
Error: blanket statement
Error: ambiguous statement
By "value a life" do you mean their own or others? It matters entirely. The devout theist typically tries to convert people to "save their immortal souls" while atheists tend to care about their own lives more. To nitpick: The Crusades, and Atheists kill people (there just isn't a name for their great cullings). The point: you can't blanket statement since atheists and theists have done some messed up things to their fellow man.
Error: ambiguous statement
By "value a life" do you mean their own or others? It matters entirely. The devout theist typically tries to convert people to "save their immortal souls" while atheists tend to care about their own lives more. To nitpick: The Crusades, and Atheists kill people (there just isn't a name for their great cullings). The point: you can't blanket statement since atheists and theists have done some messed up things to their fellow man.
Interestingly, this again comes back to religion in a way, because particularily religious families will disown and ban you or do even worse if you become pregnant outside of wedlock. Or they force the young kids into marriage.Samurai Goomba said:
Furthermore, why would a woman be willing to basically give up her body for 9 months, suffer through all the biological changes (weight gain, Diabetes, perineum rupture) and health-risks (eclampsia and others) accompanied with pregnancy if she doesn't want the baby in the first place?
If it's early enough in the pregnancy, why not avoid that altogether?
Even if you don't keep the baby, going through the process of having a baby is a life-changing and risky event.
Not to mention the psychological damage, say, a teen can go through.
True, but at that point in time it is no more sentient than said skin cells.
And the potential alone is not reason enough for me to protect it.
It's a mistake if you didn't want to have one or rather, if you were opposed to having one at that point in your life?
As for your last point, that's the thing. Early-term abortion fetuses can't suffer because they don't have a working brain.
Sure. But that doesn't mean we can force other people to do the same.
But it's not about math, it's about suffering.
If the mother and the baby are in mortal danger during a medical procedure, the life of the mother always has the higher priority unless explicitly stated otherwise by the mother. Now this is mostly an issue regarding late pregnancy, where most complications arise. But this is also true for early pregnancy, such as ectopic pregnancies. Therefore, I can extend that to pregnancy as a whole.
In my mind, the same is true for suffering and psychological damage, not only mortal danger.
The mother is a fully formed, conscious, sentient human being.
A fetus is not.
The fetus could also be the next Hitler, this argument is useless.
This may have been said (too tired to check)
It depends on the individual. Some atheists say that life holds no intrinsic value (an amoral approach) and some say that since it's all we have it is valuable. Some theists say life is valuable (I can only think of Greek religion at the moment, whose afterlife sucked) and some think it isn't important, being more concerned with either the afterlife or holy work of some kind.
It depends on the individual. Some atheists say that life holds no intrinsic value (an amoral approach) and some say that since it's all we have it is valuable. Some theists say life is valuable (I can only think of Greek religion at the moment, whose afterlife sucked) and some think it isn't important, being more concerned with either the afterlife or holy work of some kind.