A City on a Hill Cannot be hidden.

[sammyfreak]

Vosotros sois la luz del mundo. Una ciudad situada sobre un monte no se puede ocultar.

You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. - Matthew 5:14

There are games out there covering most subjects in life, but most seem to shy away from religion. Even a game with so much potential as Assassins Creed shamefully cowards away from a potentially interesting situation and turns it into a lame Dan Brownish mystery. As a strongly believing Christian I would definitely appreciate a game about something me and many others hold so closely.

But since these games don't exist I will have to make one myself and all of you are most welcome to join the fun.

My current idea is to make it about a catholic monk named Paul. He lives in a cloister in the fictional city named Babylon somewhere in Mexico during the 1950ies. A man named Gabriel delivers a note to him from a person known only as Thomas. He wants Paul to pray at his death-bed. Without any idea where to find Thomas our hero must set out on a journey through Babylon to find him.

The gameplay shall be click&point 3D(!!!) adventure and wont really be all that important, at least so far in the development. But there shall be no combat what so ever as Paul is a pacifistic bloke.

One of the main themes of the game will be biblical numerology. In the Bible certain numbers are used to represent things; Three refers to God/The Holy Trinity, Six is chaos or evil, Five is mankind and Twelve is what is completed. There is a lot of more to it and if you have more experience then me in my meager readings please do enlighten me.
Almost all things in the game will be related to one of these four numbers. Babylon itself is evil and is made up of six boroughs. The cloister is in the middle is made up of three buildings as it is a place of God. The game will be twelve days long. And so on.

Another big part of the game will be Paul's striving to become a more perfect Christian. At first he shall seem very saintlike and free of sin, but throughout his journey light will be shed upon his failings and his less obvious sins.

I guess that quite a lot of the game will be influenced by my personal views on Christianity and I hope some of you can provide some duality to my Theology.

An important thing to note is that i currently plan on putting everything in spoken Spanish with English subtitles. Since this is a theoretical game there are no technical limits for it, lets just be creative.

Anyway, I think this is it for tonight. If you feel like you have something to contribute be my guest, the more the merrier. If you only have feedback to provide please do so, but if all you have to say is mindless anti-Christian sentiment go somewhere else.

EDIT: Thank you for all the warning about this game being controversial, i am sure that the pope himself will be so insulted by this game that he will send holy assassins to kill me.

 

[mshcherbatskaya]

Sorry, dude, I'm going to have to sit this one out, because I simply lack the subject knowledge to contribute. Literature and art I get, religion not so much.

 

[stompy]

See, religion is a hot topic. It's easy to offend, and that's why devs tend to stray away from it. Games have enough bad press as it is, if they include religion, things could only get worse. Hell, doesn't anybody remember the debacle with Sony and the Church of England a while back?

But, all the best of luck with your game.

 

[ThaBenMan]

This actually sounds like a pretty good game. I think I'd enjoy it even though I'm not christian or religious at all. The unique aspects like lack of combat and violence would be refreshing. Good job for thinking of something so different!

And also, awhile ago I remember this game came out called Catechumen. It was an fps where instead of killing your enemies you converted them to christianity. I'm not sure if it's worth checking out or not - if I remember correctly it was pretty terrible.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

you missed the number 40, it and it's multiples has WAY more significance the bible than any other number

it's how old ALL major prophets were when they founded the religion or started to lead, including moses, abraham, jesus and mohammed
it's the amount of days and nights the rains lasted
it's the amount of time noah floated around on the boat after
jesus was born 960 years after the building of king solomon's temple

40 years is the amount of time it takes venus to go around earth's sky, it gives you the "evil" pentagram, a symbol jesus would have known and thought was good

it is also shown as the bull horns (where the metal sign gets it's meaning and if you would flash it to jesus, he would have flashed you the metal sign back and thought it was cool) or a rose petal

conversly the 6 pointed star of david is mecury's cycle

conjoined they for the shekinah or the star of bethleham

so if you want some symbolism, i'd suggest adding the number 40 and all it's very important aspects to the bible and religion in general

 

[Karisse]

I don't possess a scholarly knowledge of religion by any means, nor do I consider myself a very good Christian, but I have to say I'm intrigued by the idea. It holds a lot of potential in the very concept itself, though I think it could be better exploited in a form other than point-click-adventure. Combat could hold a spot in the game, for example, if held under a biblical premise of turning the other cheek or something similiar if done properly.

Since this is in the theoretical stage and theories change constantly, you could even consider an approach similiar to the old Ultima games in which the game offered no clear indication of what's morally right and wrong and thus leaving the player up to decide for himself. By that I mean include the obvious moral dilemas such as stealing when your starving but some more subtle, not-so obvious dilemas taking a story-related item from a grave - looting a corpse isn't a foreign concept in video games, but in real life grave robbing IS frowned upon.

Just throwing out suggestions. I would certainly be interested to see where such a thing could head.

 

[Easykill]

Sorry, there's no way I could play through this game. Besides- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVfV2OzEHwg

 

[Cousin_IT]

Well first Id suggest doing the tactful thing of placing this city of Babylon in Unspecifiedistan/Nonameia, since by naming the country (which doesnt seem necessary if it takes place within a city) you'll get all sorts of uproar. 2ndly I think it sounds quite boring if marketed as a game & not an interactive education tool. 3rdly I thought the story of Assassins Creed was pretty awsome & miles above Dan Browns tedious secret society effort.

Finally there are "religious" christian games out there, here one of them:
http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/leftbehindeternalforces/review.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=gssummary&tag=summary;review
Note: Jack Thompson in all his insane wisdom, at least shows himself not to be a hypocrite on the issue of violence in games. He hates the premise of this one just as much as he hates secular ones (namely, convert the heathens & kill the non believers).

 

[Jumplion]

Games have enough bad press as it is, if they include religion, things could only get worse. Hell, doesn't anybody remember the debacle with Sony and the Church of England a while back?

I was just about to say that. Religion is an EXTREMELY hot button to push, if you press it too hard everything goes boom and it's pretty easy to press it too hard. It can be pretty easy to bring up a bunch of "Ned Flanders" up on the "Games are curropting our kids!" debate. Why do you think we have Jack Thompson?!

Only one game comes to mind when I think of games that use religion well enough to not provoke any wakos and that's Civilization 4.

And i'm sure a specifically religious game would bring up even more controversy in this media we call Video Games.

But kudos for your idea, if it was turned into a game i'd hope the company wouldn't screw it up somehow.

P.S. Doesn't anyone remember Bible Man? http://youtube.com/watch?v=zXsHPLl-zFY&feature=related i'm not even sure this is real!

 

[smallharmlesskitten]

*shudder* no offence dude but religous message games only appeal to a very specific audience, namely, those who follow the religon, those who dont will hate it

 

[sammyfreak]

Choose from eight powerful spiritual weapons. Each weapon has its own unique use. Maximize your firepower by learning each weapon’s abilities. Find the lightning sword, the drill sword, the explosive staff and more.
Encounter Satan’s minions and banish them back to their evil realm. Evil lurks everywhere you turn. With your Sword of the Spirit in hand, you must confront the demons head on and show them nothing can overcome the power of the Holy Spirit.

Restore your spiritual health by finding scrolls containing God’s Word. In Catechumen, you survive by faith. When your faith gets too low, pick up the many scrolls scattered across the lands to renew your faith and continue your journey.

Descend deeper and deeper into the depths of the underworld. Your journey will take you into the very heart of evil, through 18 hand-crafted, highly detailed levels. Each level you visit is unique and each has its secrets you must uncover.

Rescue your captured Christian brethren. Your mentor and some of his flock have been taken hostage by the evil Roman Empire, controlled by Satan himself. The forces of evil and darkness will claim a great victory if he does not survive! Take up this quest and fight for the Lord!

To be honest that game seems to reflect Christianity as much as Quake reflects real warfare. Aparently the real thing is alot deeper.

But thanks for the encouragement!

Stompy, that probably is the case because of in basicly all games where religion is featured it is the enemy. The closest thing to religion being cast in a positive light is that the word Holy normally refers to healing spells in RPGs.

I think i will make Paul a moderately fit man in his sixties. Making it about a younger guy who is trying to find his place in the world and how it works with God would be the most obvious choice. But instead focusing on Paul in his older age could make it much more interesting. Make it about redemption and revelation. Yes, i like where this is going! But more of that later.

Another thing that might be fun is that in the begining of each day he reads a chapter from the Bible, potentially dramatised throught cutscene. The chapter will reflect his spiritual mood for the day and provide clues for puzzles. Early on he can read stuff like the ten commandments or other chapters reinforcing his own goodness. While later on might read chapters about compassion or sacrifice.

 

[sammyfreak]

Since this is in the theoretical stage and theories change constantly, you could even consider an approach similiar to the old Ultima games in which the game offered no clear indication of what's morally right and wrong and thus leaving the player up to decide for himself. By that I mean include the obvious moral dilemas such as stealing when your starving but some more subtle, not-so obvious dilemas taking a story-related item from a grave - looting a corpse isn't a foreign concept in video games, but in real life grave robbing IS frowned upon.

Just throwing out suggestions. I would certainly be interested to see where such a thing could head.

Thanks for your idea! I shall implement (steal) it with great joy. Instead of just choosing good or evil you can choose to follow diffirent theological ideals. Lets say a criminal confesses a murder to you, in other games you could choose between blackmailing him or keeping it a secret. Here you can choose to scold him for his sinfull behavior or encourage him to redeem himself.

Also in regards to the number 40, i believe it doesnt represent anything specific but is just one of those random numbers that apear alot. But i may be wrong.

 

[Cousin_IT]

Another thing that might be fun is that in the begining of each day he reads a chapter from the Bible, potentially dramatised throught cutscene. The chapter will reflect his spiritual mood for the day and provide clues for puzzles. Early on he can read stuff like the ten commandments or other chapters reinforcing his own goodness. While later on might read chapters about compassion or sacrifice.

Ooo Ooo now you mention that, does anyone remember the name of an animated kids show that followed an early Christian family in Ancient Rome? All I remember of it was the father (I think he was the father) figure was a baker & theyd tell (New Testament usually) Bible stories that were linked to whatever was happening in the plot of the episode. Now that was some good afternoon viewing.

 

[sammyfreak]

Another thing that might be fun is that in the begining of each day he reads a chapter from the Bible, potentially dramatised throught cutscene. The chapter will reflect his spiritual mood for the day and provide clues for puzzles. Early on he can read stuff like the ten commandments or other chapters reinforcing his own goodness. While later on might read chapters about compassion or sacrifice.

Ooo Ooo now you mention that, does anyone remember the name of an animated kids show that followed an early Christian family in Ancient Rome? All I remember of it was the father (I think he was the father) figure was a baker & theyd tell (New Testament usually) Bible stories that were linked to whatever was happening in the plot of the episode. Now that was some good afternoon viewing.

Those were awesome, sunday school theology at it's very best.

Regarding it being marketed as a game. I very much think this should be seen as a game, in the same way i view Grim Fandango as a game.

If i have to choose between naming the city Babylon and putting it in a country i think it's the name that will have to go. I wanted it set in South America since so few games go there (without the intention of killing terorists). The city itself should be rather poor and the name should be Biblical.

 

[RobotLiberationArmy]

Catechumen may have been terrible, but it was more than worth the time spent developing it as it was the subject of a wonderful Old Man Murray piece that included Erik Wolpaw's idea for the greatest political ad ever.

sammyfreak's concept is actually rather interesting. If done well, it could be great. Frankly, the sort of mature wholesomeness sammyfreak is proposing has been largely ignored by the industry and has the potential to be very engaging.

 

[iamnotincompliance]

Religion has no place in video games so long as people are unable to cope with insults or attacks AGAINST their religions.

Well, that may be pushing the point a bit. I am an atheist, and even I can see people buying this game, but any religion based game is automatically limiting itself to niche status at best. Such a thing will never find itself on a mainstream system, but the PC market isn't too shabby. If you go the Flash-based internet game route, your niche will be found. It may even do well there, but forget a full on dev-team 3D graphics up the arse (3D graphics up the ass to whatever Americans such as myself my be reading this) release. Okay, maybe 3D graphics etc etc etc (thanks to Yahtzee for the phrase) could find an audience as well, but I cannot see it selling without starting the price at half what new games normally go for. As for Spanish with subtitles, that would be another niche market you're looking to hit there, and all my previous comments apply. That now makes this a niche in niche game, and so far as I can tell, the market such a game would be... you, sammyfreak. Any other kind of game in Spanish could be a minor hit, hell, I could be wrong and a religious game could be a minor hit too, but both in one? If you still want to go for it, by all means, don't let me dissuade you.

Also, Wisdom Tree. Anyone remember them? They are still inexplicably around, and they are still playing the Christian game market (such as it is), but most of their library today seems to be educational, another niche. Take a note from the only other player in your field: it's going to be an uphill battle.

 

[shadow skill]

Anyone remember "Left Behind: Eternal Forces"? After LB:EF, I don't think we should allow any more religious games.

Meh its not really all that different from all of these war games that have us shooting people of "terrorist descent" in the final analysis.

 

[sammyfreak]

Religion has no place in video games so long as people are unable to cope with insults or attacks AGAINST their religions.

If you want to turn games into religious mediums, expect to be persecuted for your beliefs and prepare for all manner of protest from anyone with a different faith than yours.

Thank you for that profound insight and kind words of encouragement, i will keep them close at heart.

I do not want this thread to turn into a massive one-sided religion bashing debate like all internet discussions regarding the subject. The idea is to theoreticaly create a game that mihgt be of interest to some people here at the Escapist.

iamnotincompliance, fortunately this game wont need to have a large target audience since it infact doesnt exist. The entire development proces is fictional and mostly for fun's sake.