A couple of questions to Americans

[Fox12]

As an inhabitant of a Scandinavian country who's spent most of his life prominently with American media (comic books, games, tv shows, movies etc.) there occasionally comes a time when I just need some insider's perspective to how things really are. One of these popped up on my mind (again) after seeing Kick-Ass 2, the other just today while watching "Penn & Teller's Bullshit!".

The first one, which I'm sure many people outside of the US have thought about a lot as well, is: How much is real American high school life like how it's portrayed in entertainment? I asked about this from an exchange student who'd been there years ago, but her experience clearly didn't match the stereotype. But considering how much and how bitterly MovieBob, for example, has ranted on his high school experiences, I know it can't all be just exaggeration and stereotypes.

So, just as a person from a different culture, how "realistic" is the depiction of high school in American entertainment? How common are the mean girls clicks? Do nerds really get stuffed into lockers? Is there really that much competition to be quarterback (or whoever the hell is the lead player, I don't know shit about American footb... sorry, handegg)? Do proms really kick up that much drama? I really want to know.

The other one I have to ask about just because I'm so completely baffled by it. And that's self-esteem coaching.

Spoiler: Here's an episode of Bullshit! that explains it quite well

The whole time watching the episode I had my jaw on the floor. I'd heard of it before, but only now did I realize what kind of stuff it was. This is real? People really pay money for that? A guy is actually touring America, doing cheap magic tricks while telling kids that they're "special", and actually making them yell "I'm number 1!"???????? Just how big is this business? Do you know any people who buy into this stuff?

It actually brought back memories from Lost, in which many characters were told that they're special, that they're unique and important. I always thought of it as a part of the show's themes of destiny and predetermined fate, but that episode really made me look at it from a different perspective. What if it wasn't about fate, what if the show was really telling its audience that this is how they should think about themselves? The thought that parents actively tell their kids that they're one of a kind and that they're bound to be all-important to the world is quite harrowing. I wonder, if that fad doesn't blow over soon, what kind of people are they going to grow up to be?

Anyway, enough rambling. Just wanted to know. Thoughts on either or both of these?

Highschool:
Well, yes and no. You can find the snotty entitled girls in any school, but they're nowhere near as bad as they're depicted in television. They certainly don't actively try to ruin peoples lives. Besides, they're a minority, and there are just as many nice and kind "popular" girls as there are mean ones. In my experience no one fits into clear stereotypes. I knew one girl who was a real ***** to people she thought were unattractive. Later on in the year, her mom died of cancer, and a bunch of her victims came up to her and told her that they were glad her mom died, and that she deserved it. She was wrong, but so were they. There was another girl, who was more popular and, frankly, more attractive, who would come in every morning and buy breakfest for people who didn't have much money. She would also sit with people who were alone. You have to judge people by their actions, not whether they were popular. Some of the people who got bullied the most were complete ass holes who brought it on themselves. Also, I've never seen anyone shoved in a locker.

I had a close friend who was pretty, popular, and outgoing. She had a great bubbly personality, and she was very funny. In fact, you would never have known that she was suffering from post traumatic stress disorder due to rape, and that she spent most of her night slitting her wrists. You expect that from the quiet loner, not the popular girl. So why do these stereotypes exist? I can't say. I would guess the writers had maybe one or two bad experiences in their lives where someone made fun of them, and they got bitter. But here's the thing, your experiences will dictate your perceptions. The girl who was really mean could also be an amazing big sister who cares about her family. To her younger brother she may seem like the nicest person on earth, and to the people she made fun of she could be pure evil.

There's no drama around prom whatsoever. It's a convenient finale to bad teenager movies, which is why it gets attention. It's not a big deal, and I came from a big football school. The football players usually got along really well with one another. They were cliquey, but not mean. If you weren't in their "group" thne thet just ignored you. They didn't beat people up or anything. It was usually the "edgy bad boy" types that were the bad ones, and yes, they were stereotypical. Basically entitled ass holes who belonged in a jersey shore episode. They were also a minority.

Bullshit & Self Esteem:
Yes, Americans really feel this way. The idea is that we don't want the kids with low self esteem to feel bad about themselves, and parents tend to embrace this mindset. We're basically raised with this from birth. "You can achieve anything! Your special! This is a free land, so you can achieve anything!" Of course, we can't all be rockstars, can we? I promise you, it was all 100% sincere. Unfortunately all this has done is make people with too much self worth that much worse. Americans assume that their entitled to something, which creates problems when they get older. There has been a backlash, however, so this is losing popularity. If you want to see an example of the backlash go watch Fight Club. It sums it up pretty good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98LeLZ2crZE

Most people grow out of it after highschool though, I don't know anyone who thinks like that now. It's mostly teenagers who are the problem. A healthy doe of reality straightens them out.

 

[Yoshi4102]

I'm too lazy to read though everyone's answers, but one misconception I noticed people from foreign countries have about the U.S. is that you can describe it as a whole. The U.S. is fucking HUGE! Just going state to state there can be huge cultural changes, and I imagine the high school experience changes vastly with it. Even going 20 miles (~32km) out of Houston, Tx (were I went to school) there were quite a few differences.

So if people's experiences don't seem to match up or follow any trend, that could explain it. As for handegg, I was a wrestler so I never gave a shit or payed attention. I do hear that wrestling is big over there? Is that true? Not nearly as popular here in Texas as I wish it was. More of an up north sport, especially in Iowa.

Hope my insight helped a bit!

 

[briankoontz]

The media is about the middle class and the wealthy, so most high school depictions suffer from having an excess of wealthy kids, like Disney constantly does. Otherwise high school experiences vary - kids can be cruel of course but they try not to be.

A darkly humorous version of high school is found in the great movie Heathers.

As for self-esteem, we need to bear in mind that Washington D.C. is the center of the global empire, kind of like the Death Star in the Star Wars universe. The global economic system causes over 50,000 deaths per day - that's just one reason for Americans to be miserable people. Ironically, they are also miserable for the opposite reason - America's power in the world is fading and thus their own expected future wealth is fading with it. So now they are living in the worst possible world as far as they are concerned - they are killing lots of people and not getting their 2nd television set as a reward. This contrasts sharply with the genocide of the Native Americans, where lots of happy murder of easily demonized "savages" resulted in vast gains in land and mineral wealth. But now all the murder and terror is just helping rich people get richer, so regular Americans are upset because the murder isn't working in their interest.

Misery breeds "uplifting" movements, such as the "consolation" movement of pornography and empty entertainment as well as "self-esteem" movements.

The people who need to be told they are special are the very ones who believe they are valueless. When I tell them they'd feel better about themselves if they stopped murdering people they give me a look that says "You look a lot like a Native American savage to me, sonny - why don't you meet my Mr. Smith and Wesson?"

All hope is not lost though. Arabs are being heavily demonized and lots of regular Americans are joining in the condemnation of the "new savages". Enough of that and we can happily take our oil which is under their soil, murder even more of them than we already have, and condemn them to death or perpetual misery.

We'll finally have that 2nd television set. So it's all worthwhile.

 

[PoolCleaningRobot]

So, just as a person from a different culture, how "realistic" is the depiction of high school in American entertainment? How common are the mean girls clicks? Do nerds really get stuffed into lockers? Is there really that much competition to be quarterback (or whoever the hell is the lead player, I don't know shit about American footb... sorry, handegg)? Do proms really kick up that much drama? I really want to know.

I can't speak for every school in Eagleland but I went to an American high school with 3000+ total students and it wasn't like that. Cool people? Popular people? They don't exists. Unless of course, you're talking about friends and people you know like say "Kevin is pretty cool guy". Obviously, not everyone likes or respects my imaginary Kevin because other people have different interests. If he's likable then I guess he would be a "cool guy" but not necessarily someone I'd care to impress or respect. Why would I consider our hand-egg team's quarterback a cool guy if a he's a douche or if I don't know how hand-egg works and think its a waste of time? In my case, our football team was a joke and possibly the shittiest in our state. As for proms, men don't give a shit, a portion of women probably don't. And I wouldn't know much about mean girl cliques but I have my suspicions that they don't exist either

The other one I have to ask about just because I'm so completely baffled by it. And that's self-esteem coaching

Dear god, that's a thing? I mean yeah, encouraging self-esteem is a thing but only a minor bullshit thing. Traveling the country to pat you on the head and say "you're a winner" is another level of crazy altogether

Try to remember that half the writing in Hollywood is done by old dude's who went to high school in the 80's and probably have an extremely warped view of their "glory days". You should watch Bob's review of Scott Pilgrim vs The World. He points out that in a lot of high school type movies, the protagonists are Mary-Sue type avatars of the writers themselves when they were "nice guys" and "nerds" without acknowledging their own flaws (it was something Scott Pilgrim avoided by making the title character kind of an immature douche)

 

[Spiridion]

I can't really answer this from the perspective of a "normal" high school experience as I went to a small Catholic high school. There were only about 57 people in my graduating class, and the school only hit a total student population of 300 a few years after I graduated. For comparison, many public high schools in my city have 1000+ students. Where I went you knew the name of everyone in you class, which isn't realistic in most schools.

How common are the mean girls clicks?

Because of that environment, cliques weren't really a thing. The "popular group" was around 90% of my class, although several subgroups tended to form. The 10 or so of us geeks/nerds that didn't quite fit into that group could still socialize fairly easy with those that were in it. There are probably more "mean girls" in college to be honest, where I went some of the sorority girls had pretty terrible reputations, but even they seemed to be a minority.

Do nerds really get stuffed into lockers?

Nope. Honestly, a few of the nerds at my high school were the guys that were the most dick-ish. Mostly little things like knocking people's books off their desks, though. For the most part there were no direct physical confrontations. I think they did tease one gay guy into leaving the school, though... which is awful. But other than that there weren't many issues with teasing/insults either.

Is there really that much competition to be quarterback (or whoever the hell is the lead player, I don't know shit about American footb... sorry, handegg)?

We were too small to support a football team, so no idea. I think it can be in some cases, as certain students do count on academic scholarships to get them into college.

Do proms really kick up that much drama?

The only issues my social group had around prom season was deciding where to go to dinner. Wasn't really that big of an issue. Although around 10% of my class had kids in their teens... so I guess there was some form of drama going on, just not at prom.

The other one I have to ask about just because I'm so completely baffled by it. And that's self-esteem coaching

The only people I know that have had any form of counseling for self-esteem it's been to help with intense self-hatred and feelings of worthlessness. So in those cases it's just about getting back up to healthy, not making kids think they're the most important person in the world. If people actually go to those sorts of self-esteems coaches I've never met any of them. I'd imagine their parents have more money than anyone I know, though, and are probably in denial about some issues in their household.

 

[C F]

I wouldn't know. I kind of skipped high school, and started part-time college the summer out of the 8th Grade.

I'd imagine some of the stereotypes happened somewhere and somewhen, but most schools aren't going to match up to what the entertainment media will make of them. It's all fiction, designed to be shocking, engaging, and exciting. How else would you tell a story?

 

[Johnny Impact]

HIGH SCHOOL
It *could* be like that, but it isn't. At least, not all the time. High school, like everything else, is exaggerated for entertainment. It's more entertaining to show the day a kid gets spit on than the 800 days he doesn't.

Nerds: I was never beaten up or stuffed in a locker (they're way too small for that anyhow), but I was verbally abused almost every day, had signs taped to my back a few times, and was even spit on once.

Girls: From my perspective, all girls were either mean or quiet.

Sports: I remember lots of guys took sports really, really seriously. Like, way beyond any objective assessment of its importance. How the jocks settled matters amongst their own kind I neither know nor care.

SELF-ESTEEM
America is huge, huge, *huge* into self-esteem. Some schools here have done away with grades altogether, because failing might damage a child. Straight-faced, earnest people have told me it doesn't matter who you are or what you do as long as you feel good about yourself.

Sure, it's better to feel good about yourself than not. What America is trying very hard to forget is that it's better to feel good about yourself because you succeeded than because you were brainwashed into thinking failure was awesome.

Seems to me this can only lead to a nation of 400-pound morons whose entire existence takes place between the sofa and the bed. (moment of uncomfortable self-awareness as I realize I'm typing this on the sofa -- while watching TV, no less)

 

[Do4600]

Yes and no. I went to a private high school of about 2000 students about 500 in my 2004 graduating class. I remember there were actually some girls suspended for verbal bullying of other girls. Because it was a private high school there was actually a very active cocaine culture among the richer kids, and this was in a private catholic high school. Stuffing people into lockers is so 40 years ago, they found brand new ways of harassing people since then. Hand-Egg, I can't really say, I was too involved with theater, the arts and anti-war political groups to play football, I do know that every position on a team at our school was competed for just from hearing other people talk about it. Proms? Not mine but the class two years ahead of me saw two people expelled for what happened during and after prom.

So yes it is that ridiculous, at least at a rather good(internationally awarded)private catholic high school a mile from a moderately large city. It is that ridiculous but the cliches don't do the reality any justice.

Everything at that school was competitive, that might be why it was like that.