A Dark Souls easy mode would require a fundamental change in level design.

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Louzerman102

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Mar 12, 2011
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I will write a quick summery of my point right here. If you modded Dark Souls to give the player infinite life, and a weapon that one-hit kills everything you would still die because of the game's approach to level design. Dark Souls essentially says "If your dumb enough to walk off this ledge you deserve to die."

[insert pointless musings] I can see how it would increase the amount of people who would enjoy the game and increase the overall sales. Yet the argument that Dark Souls 2 should have an easy mode bothers me for two reasons. (reason 1) From Software would be required to fundamentally change fall damage and how it is used in game. (reason 2) You're asking that a very good game be change to better fit people who don't want to play the game as it currently is. To point out an outlandish example, Monster Hunter is an action-RPG. You start the game with the clothing on your back and a few dull knives. You then take these knives and slowly hunt your way up the food chain until your killing mythical dragons. If your first response is "hunting is animal cruelty" then the game is not for you. If you have a moral objection to war Modern Warfare is not for you. If you hate tracking numbers and grinding Disgaea is not for you. (rhetorical question) So why would challenging game-play (that reinforces the story and themes) need to be changed when the feeling of satisfaction when you kill a difficult boss is central to the "fun" of the game.[end of musing]

Now Level design. (this is the first time I have tried to imbed images)
{also note I re-sized these images and they are my screen-caps}

This is the firelink shrine the first area after the tutorial. You'll notice the red crap. That was me in MS Paint point out all of the instant kill you fell to your death ledges in the starting area. The top circle is where you are supposed to go. The circle on the right is an item that you need to jump a gap to get to.


This is the opposite side of the firelink shrine leading into the catacombs this is also all instant kill fall to your death areas.


The blue line is the same tree in image 2. The red line is a ledge and a nice view.

The reason I took these images is to desperately point out that the level design does not work with an easy mode, unless you change how the levels are built. (OSHA approved chest high walls) If asked I can go through most areas of dark souls and point out how you can easily fall to your death if you don't remember where your feet are. This concept that you are 4 to 5 hits or one bad foot placement is part of the story. You are a nobody, just another undead in a cruel world. Your not Commander Shepard the biggest badass in the galaxy, you're not the dragon-born the best equipped person to kill dragons. You're just some loser with the odds stacked against you and you're going to spit in adversity's face.

Fun pastime play mass effect 2 and deliberately try to fall off ledges. (glitches do not count)
 

Kasten

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It occurs to me that if you walk off a ledge, it's not a failing in difficulty level. And I don't see a problem in putting an easy mode IN, because it doesn't mean you'd actually have to do it. And if you have to use ME2 style ledges for easy, fine, I say just have hard be open at the beginning so that people get a good choice.
 

WoW Killer

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Louzerman102 said:
I will write a quick summery of my point right here. If you modded Dark Souls to give the player infinite life, and a weapon that one-hit kills everything you would still die because of the game's approach to level design. Dark Souls essentially says "If your dumb enough to walk off this ledge you deserve to die."
How about if you mod the life and weapon damage but keep the levels and fall damage the same? That's still an easier mode, and it doesn't have to affect your own game. You're saying an 'Easy Mode' must be one which makes every aspect of the game easier, rather than one which only alters certain aspects. Essentially, this is a Straw Man.

Regarding fall damage, some games do that thing where you appear back where you fell off and give you a bit of damage (only killing you if you're on low health). Why not something the same?
 

Maxtro

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Feb 13, 2011
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How retarded.

Darks Souls isn't hard because you can walk off cliff. It's hard because enemies deal tons of damage.
 

Smooth Operator

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Oct 5, 2010
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Really, your whole argument is based on ledges?
I have yet to spot a game where the maps are flattened on easy setting.

It seems rather odd that the only ones demanding that the entire game be changed for easy mode are the ones who apparently like it the way it is... could this actually be some obscure cry for help?
 

dimensional

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Dont really understand you there if they gave the player infinite life and /or a weapon that one shotted enemies that would definitely make it easier than normal and so they could call it easy mode quite fairly even if running off a sheer cliff face still killed you easy mode dosent necessarily mean (borderline) invincible in fact some games are challenging enough on easy mode if you dont know what you are doing. For e.g I recently bought MVC2 and played it on arcade on easy and since I knew zero combos bugger all supers or how to use my assists or the gimmicks to the last boss it was actually quite challenging at the end (eventually got it down and breezed it but if you dont know the trick its not easy).

Really for easy mode they could just make it so you dont lose your sould when you die and your equipment dosent take damage and you can be invaded something along those lines or even make enemies weaker change their a.i a bit make em do less damage drop better stuff they dont have to rebuild the entire world.
 

DementedSheep

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I'm pretty sure most of those wanting an easy mode are thinking about combat not fall damage. An easy mode dose not mean a mode impossible to die on just easier than the normal difficulty. Most games with instant death falls don't change that with the difficulty setting even when the game is based around platforming.
 

MisterShine

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Mar 9, 2010
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DementedSheep said:
I'm pretty sure most of those wanting an easy mode are thinking about combat not fall damage. An easy mode dose not mean a mode impossible to die on just easier than the normal difficulty.
This.

Half enemy damage, increase player damage by about 50%, remove one or two items from boss move lists, have the player only drop half souls/humanity instead of all of them, more enemies not respawning when you rest at a bonfire...

And you've got a game that is still more challenging than most games these days, honestly.
 

Bad Jim

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If enemies were easier to fight, the player would not have to dodge as much and would be less likely to fall off a cliff while manouvring. It's not as if casuals would fall to their doom while not fighting.
 

Vegosiux

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Bad Jim said:
If enemies were easier to fight, the player would not have to dodge as much and would be less likely to fall off a cliff while manouvring. It's not as if casuals would fall to their doom while not fighting.
Who's "the casuals"?

No really please do explain.
 

Maxtro

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Hell, having more checkpoints would be for an easy mode.

Another thing is a soul bank where you put extra souls if you don't always want to carry around thousands at a time.
 

Bad Jim

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Vegosiux said:
Bad Jim said:
If enemies were easier to fight, the player would not have to dodge as much and would be less likely to fall off a cliff while manouvring. It's not as if casuals would fall to their doom while not fighting.
Who's "the casuals"?

No really please do explain.
The less masochistic gamers who apparently demand an easy mode.
 

Twilight_guy

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Nov 24, 2008
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No. I would give a thorough response but sufficient to say that the notion of difficulty is bigger then you think it is. I think you just present me with a straw-man and I will not accept that.
 

Vegosiux

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Bad Jim said:
The less masochistic gamers who apparently demand an easy mode.
Oh, right we have a false alarm here then, just assumptions, no real knowledge.

Move along, everyone, nothing to see.
 

Exius Xavarus

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May 19, 2010
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You don't need to block off bottomless pits for an easy mode. They're their for the specific purpose of killing you. Dark Souls is not as difficult as game as people keep wanting to believe. All you have to do is pay some goddamn attention and you won't die.

Also: Bottomless pits only kill players that are either stupid enough to walk off the ledge or end up no longer paying attention and roll their ass right off the cliff.

The only thing they would need to do for an easy mode is make enemies deal less damage and make you cause more.

Bad Jim said:
You really don't need to be a masochist to play Demon's Souls or Dark Souls. It's not an easy game by any means, but its reputation is just a bit exaggerated.
 

alphamalet

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Sorry OP, but this is really REALLY stupid. How many times did you walk off those cliffs? I'll bet none. Even novice gamers can grasp not to walk off a blatant cliff. Besides, if it worries you that much, there is a really easy solution to the nonexistent problem you postulate would ruin the design of future games. If someone is playing easy mode, and falls off a cliff, have them return to the place they fell off with half of their current health taken from them. There, I just solved your strawman's problem.
 

Nomanslander

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FargoDog said:
You have a very low opinion of certain gamers if you think they can't work out how not to walk off a fucking cliff.
Have you played the game? You'll be surprised to find out how often it happens, the ledges you stand on can get really really narrow. Also, the game has you frequently fighting enemies while avoiding death falls all around. And in one level it does it in almost complete darkness where you can't see 2 feet in front of you.

0o
 

Nomanslander

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Feb 21, 2009
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FargoDog said:
Nomanslander said:
Have you played the game? You'll be surprised to find out how often it happens, the ledges you stand on can get really really narrow. Also, the game has you frequently fighting enemies while avoiding death falls all around. And in one level it does it in almost complete darkness where you can't see 2 feet in front of you.

0o
Easy way to fix it - lower the amount of enemies on easy mode. Done. This isn't complicated. I've finished Dark Souls twice and an optional easy mode that's well thought out wouldn't harm the game at all.
Umm, I wasn't posting asking how to implement easy mode in a setting like this. I was supporting the OP because some people were making skeptical remarks on how anyone could just "walk off a ledge." I was explaining how that was possible.

I have strong convictions against the idea of easy mode in Dark Souls. So I'm the last person you should discuss that matter with.

:p