A Dark Souls easy mode would require a fundamental change in level design.

[Peithelo]

But can't you let other players decide by themself if they want to expirience the intended way or the easy way? You've no right to dictate how other players should play their game.

I consider Dark Souls to be an honest work of art rather than a piece of purposeful entertainment that is produced to be appreciated by certain people. Demon's Souls even more so. They were created out of sheer willingness to create something and they then continued to create their own audience. An audience that does incidentally appreciate Demon's Souls and Dark Souls for what they are. This audience or anyone outside of it has in my opinion no right to demand anything from the creators. Certainly not to alter their own creations because they didn't happen to be to their liking, unless its about some clearly abhorrent content in the product.

Actual art creates audiences, purposeful products express themselves to audiences. Either way you should understand that the player does indeed have right to choose what creations they want to support by purchasing them, but the creators have no responsibility to consequently alter their already existing products to be more like what people would like them to be. There are many ways you can find out if a creative work is suitable for you specifically, and I would argue that it is the consumers responsibility to do so before making any purchases.

In fact it is ironical that you are the one demanding things while I am merely defending the form Dark Souls was designed to have. I would do so with practically any other game, even if I personally didn't like them myself. This would not prevent me from giving critique however, to which everyone has the right as well. The only one dictating anything are the creators of any work themselves, namely the form of their creations, and I can't be angry about that when these creative people give us the unique chance to actually experience what they have created. They share their creations willingly.

 

[cookyt]

The people ridiculing those who fall off ledges make me very sad to think that I've died more due to ledges than to enemies (even including bosses). It's not as impossible to fall off a ledge as one might think. Also, to answer the question as to why I fall off so often: for the loot!

Why is everybody so hostile to the idea? He makes a valid point: fall damage and instant kill falls are a vital part of the game, and one of the reasons it's so difficult. At this point, the best thing to do is think of ways to make this aspect of the game less harsh for people playing on easy mode.

This guy has the right attitude:

Interesting read, not going to lie. I believe fall numbers are done on percentage of your health bar, once it become big enough.

you could add a system where if your character steps of the edge, they'll do a near fall animation the first time to warn you off a lethal fall, but there is already a system to tell you if a fall is lethal, and that is the glowing rocks. Let's just say that an easy mode would require a separate game, I shall name it "Light Souls"

Maybe an item that prevents you from falling off a ledge once (like the ring of sacrifice) by knocking you back towards solid ground. This item would only appear in easy mode.

 

[Leaper]

Put collision/blocking volumes/invisible walls along those edges on easy mode.

Problem solved?

 

[DrunkenMonkey]

The people ridiculing those who fall off ledges make me very sad to think that I've died more due to ledges than to enemies (even including bosses). It's not as impossible to fall off a ledge as one might think. Also, to answer the question as to why I fall off so often: for the loot!

Why is everybody so hostile to the idea? He makes a valid point: fall damage and instant kill falls are a vital part of the game, and one of the reasons it's so difficult. At this point, the best thing to do is think of ways to make this aspect of the game less harsh for people playing on easy mode.

This guy has the right attitude:

Interesting read, not going to lie. I believe fall numbers are done on percentage of your health bar, once it become big enough.

you could add a system where if your character steps of the edge, they'll do a near fall animation the first time to warn you off a lethal fall, but there is already a system to tell you if a fall is lethal, and that is the glowing rocks. Let's just say that an easy mode would require a separate game, I shall name it "Light Souls"

Maybe an item that prevents you from falling off a ledge once (like the ring of sacrifice) by knocking you back towards solid ground. This item would only appear in easy mode.

Call it the "Ring of the Fallen" and you're set lol

 

[DementedSheep]

But can't you let other players decide by themself if they want to expirience the intended way or the easy way? You've no right to dictate how other players should play their game.

I consider Dark Souls to be an honest work of art rather than a piece of purposeful entertainment that is produced to be appreciated by certain people. Demon's Souls even more so. They were created out of sheer willingness to create something and they then continued to create their own audience. An audience that does incidentally appreciate Demon's Souls and Dark Souls for what they are. This audience or anyone outside of it has in my opinion no right to demand anything from the creators. Certainly not to alter their own creations because they didn't happen to be to their liking, unless its about some clearly abhorrent content in the product.

Actual art creates audiences, purposeful products express themselves to audiences. Either way you should understand that the player does indeed have right to choose what creations they want to support by purchasing them, but the creators have no responsibility to consequently alter their already existing products to be more like what people would like them to be. There are many ways you can find out if a creative work is suitable for you specifically, and I would argue that it is the consumers responsibility to do so before making any purchases.

In fact it is ironical that you are the one demanding things while I am merely defending the form Dark Souls was designed to have. I would do so with practically any other game, even if I personally didn't like them myself. This would not prevent me from giving critique however, to which everyone has the right as well. The only one dictating anything are the creators of any work themselves, namely the form of their creations, and I can't be angry about that when these creative people give us the unique chance to actually experience what they have created. They share their creations willingly.

I have yet to see anyone actually demand an easy mode. Request or state that they would think it would be good idea sure and there is nothing wrong with making a request that developers are free to take on board or ignore. The only people I've seen actually getting up in arms about this and doing the usual "raghhh I'll never support you again if you do this!!" BS are the ones against the idea the they might decide of their own free will to put an optional easy mode in the game.

 

[The Maddest March Hare]

Pretty sure there are loads of games with instant kill drops that still offer an easy mode you know..

Halo series had instant death drops.

Skyrim I can jump and fall to my death even with the settings down so low I can kill dragons by saying hurtful things to them.

Metro 2033 has areas where you can be killed off by the scenery even though you get thousands of rounds and enemies barely scratch you.

S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games have instant death anomalies on easy mode, but the enemies do lower damage and have lower health.

Mirror's Edge didn't make any of the freerunning easier, nor change the level layout on easy. Only the combat difficulty and damage changed.

I'm sure there are lots more but I genuinely struggle to think of examples because it's not something I'd ever considered. When I change to easy mode I have never, til today, considered the scenery morphing around my changing difficulty. Difficulty has always, as far as I was aware, been based around how hard it was to beat the game, not changing the game so that I can't die at all.

I really don't see how this easy mode Dark Souls is such a problem for people, it's not making you play it, it's not taking something from your gameplay. The only reason I can think of is that you get some sort of gratification out of completing a game without an "easy" option. It's just pathetic.

 

[Maxtro]

Dark Souls really seems like a game where somebody forgot to program a Normal mode.

It basically is equivalent to playing Skyrim on Master.

 

[IronMit]

Dark Souls really seems like a game where somebody forgot to program a Normal mode.

It basically is equivalent to playing Skyrim on Master.

Maybe if you start on master mode. I tanked Alduin on master in my light armour/cloth combo.

 

[Peithelo]

I have yet to see anyone actually demand an easy mode. Request or state that they would think it would be good idea sure and there is nothing wrong with making a request that developers are free to take on board or ignore.

You might be right about that, and I may have had a poor choice of words. As I said in my previous message everyone does indeed have the right to critique a work. In this specific situtation such critiquing should have been done while Dark Souls was still in production or now in an effort to perhaps eventually improve Dark Souls 2 specifically.

The only people I've seen actually getting up in arms about this and doing the usual "raghhh I'll never support you again if you do this!!" BS are the ones against the idea the they might decide of their own free will to put an optional easy mode in the game.

That would depend on the reason why the developers would choose to implement such option. They likely wouldn't get my support if it was added in an attempt to only appeal to a broader audience, but they would be much more likely to get it if they honestly though the inclusion truly improved the game itself. Former would be in a way forced upon the developers and the latter would be them deciding of their own free will.

 

[IronMit]

You know, maybe by 'accessible' they meant give you a bit more direction.

I mean you start the game and someone tells you one bell is up top and another in blighttown. You are not going to remember 'blighttown' at this point because you are hearing and seeing so many different new stuff. So 20 hours later after the first bell (without a master key) you wonder...well...which way to the blightown? You could waste another 6x2 hours in catacombs or new londo ruins before you realise the depths exist. Or you could go to the depths ...and think blighttown is some optional super hard place and leave.

I loved this game but I'm pretty sure 90% of people that rage on about it online used wiki's, walkthroughs, youtubes, forums when they are lost. the 'is this shield worth upgrading before I waste all my resources on it' thread and where do i go next thread. If you are reading these threads maybe you should appreciate 'accesbility'.

Then because of the online play you kind of want to look things up...if you miss the best spells, armours you are gna be at a handicap.
When you and 2 summoned players go to take out the anor londo boss and some over powered lameass invades and kills you all with a 'wrath of gods' move you have never seen before you kind of want to look up what the hell happened

So in terms of accessibility...there's a lot they could do to improve the game

1. pvp matching to take into account metagaming- all the top armours, weapons, spells, fully upgraded should be atleast partially added to pvp matching-unless you kill gywndoline lol
2. if less npc direction,,,a few more options when leaving messages like 'primary route', 'bell this way', 'boss has key'
3. either sort out lag or curb pvp backstab power. There are players that don't want to have to look up how to counter this or die 50 times doing trial and error against backstabing invaders - just to get 'Wog'd instead


Long story short...they may actually change this game for the better so don't panic....


hmmmm but that's what I thought when I heard the hitman absolution and mass effect 3 changes...and I was wrong.....
Actually disregard everything you I said! be very afraid!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/10/24/10-ways-the-next-dark-souls-could-be-even-better/


To those people that say 'it's their game they can change it if they want to'...please shut up. You are missing the point. Other people are simply voicing what they think they want in order to stay fans. From Software might look at this and decide what really needs tinkering with for the better.


IDEA: all good armours, weapons, upgrade parts,spells, keys that are scatters around dark souls...how about if each one could be anywhere from 5-15 locations? Promotes exploring for anyone that is trying to metagame, well make walkthroughs not as useful.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

Problem is that it was designed for people who are either genuinely masochistic or are gaming-savants, which means if you aren't one of those people then it doesn't feel like a challenge; it just feels unfun.

No it isn't. The game is tough but it's entirely fair. Sure, you'll die a few times before you get the hang of it, but once you do it soon becomes easy enough. The only difference between Dark Souls and any other game is that you have the constant knowledge that if you do slip up you'll get killed - but that only makes it more rewarding all those times when you don't.

There's literally only one section of the game which I think genuinely deserves the evil reputation: you're trying to get up a ramp and their are two bowmen that can easily knock you off. But even that bit can be done in a couple of tries if you look properly from a distance and form a good plan.

 

[Anatoli Ossai]

Ledges? I believe you've missed the actually difficulty of the game

How retarded.

Darks Souls isn't hard because you can walk off cliff. It's hard because enemies deal tons of damage.

Enemy Damage isn't it Either. EpicNameBro stated this in a very nice summary. An enemy can one shot you, sure, have inflated health bar, sure, but the difficulty comes not learning how to to defeat him easily.

Funny thing is that Dark Souls has become a bit of a victim of its own success. There's a LOT of gamers out there (me included) who have heard that Dark Souls is extremely challenging and want to take a shot at completing that challenge. Problem is that it was designed for people who are either genuinely masochistic or are gaming-savants, which means if you aren't one of those people then it doesn't feel like a challenge; it just feels un-fun.

This ^ ^

 

[auron200004]

Was with you until I realized your arguments consisted of the fact that there is ledges.

Anyway, my two cents. I love Dark Souls and Demon's Souls. I will be buying Dark Souls 2. If they can implement a simple scaling difficulty setting (less health, less damage on easier difficulties, etc.), then I am absolutely fine with whatever difficulty settings they choose to put in. If they decide to do all-encompassing easy mode, which involves altering levels, combat techniques, etc, then I do have an issue with it, as it would extremely likely alter the product on higher difficulties as well.

A majority of the difficulty (which there isn't that much of, incidentally, but that's just from my perspective) comes from the way the combat system is designed and how enemies act and fight. If they changed that to make the game "easier", then I would be uber irritated. But, as far as I can tell, it's far more likely they're just going to scale health and damage to make it easier. Therefore, it would be slightly more accessible while still not being an "easy" game. It would still be challenging gameplay and design-wise, but they'd just be throwing a few more cards in the player's favor on lower difficulties.

If they went with that, the "prepare to die" mantra and many other aspects would still be true, it just wouldn't be as balls-shrinkingly difficult as outsiders to the series seem to think it is. I'd be fine with more people experiencing the game, personally. Honestly, despite what many may think, the difficulty of the games is not the only thing that makes them appealing. I love the setting, the art design, the semi-hidden storyline, and the creature design for starters. When I finished Blighttown (which I will admit was the worst area of the game, design and difficulty wise)and found out that there was a humongous world (the Demon Ruins, Lost Izalith, and the giant lake I've forgotten the name of) underneath the already-huge overworld, I was blown away by the scale and beauty of it. That's how good the art and level design is. My point is that an altered difficulty wouldn't kill the series for me at all.

 

[Trishbot]

As someone without the time to master Dark Souls and endure all the trial and error and frustration and setbacks, I would fully embrace an "easier" mode that simply lessens how much damage I receive and increased the damage I deal.

If the hardcore masochists want to complain, throw in an "uber hard" mode too or something, like dying wipes out all of your souls and humanity, and every enemy does one-hit kills or something.

 

[teebeeohh]

Easy mode for dark souls: soul/humanity bank and enemies respawning only happens if you rest and decide you want them to respawn. Done. Possibly give hints for bosses ingame

 

[PunkRex]

Did you know that Spyro The Dragon punishes you with instant death for falling off cliffs?

I knew this when I was freaking 12 yet apparently this is enough to stop peeps playing a game.
Look OP im not saying that your points are completely invalid but my word! Do you honestly care that much? Now more peeps will say that they finished it, when talking to these peeps just ask 'on what mode?', if they say easy you can argue that they didn't get the full experience. Thats the only way I see this affecting you, unless the designers agree with your statements and decide to make the next game (if there is one) designed more along these lines, but then who should you be mad at, the hand full of peeps complaining it was to hard or the games creators for caving?

 

[Maxtro]

Ledges? I believe you've missed the actually difficulty of the game

How retarded.

Darks Souls isn't hard because you can walk off cliff. It's hard because enemies deal tons of damage.

Enemy Damage isn't it Either. EpicNameBro stated this in a very nice summary. An enemy can one shot you, sure, have inflated health bar, sure, but the difficulty comes not learning how to to defeat him easily.

What are you talking about? Of course the main issue is enemy damage. Getting one shot is the problem. And then you have a ten minute trek to go against that enemy and hopefully he won't one-shot you, though most likely he will. Then you have to make the trek again.

That's why Dark Souls is hard.

 

[sanquin]

op·tion·al [op-shuh-nl]
adjective
1.
left to one's choice; not required or mandatory: Formal dress is optional..
2.
leaving something to choice.

choice (chois)
n.
1. The act of choosing; selection.
2. The power, right, or liberty to choose; option.
3. One that is chosen.
4. A number or variety from which to choose: a wide choice of styles and colors.
5. The best or most preferable part.
6. Care in choosing.
7. An alternative.

My, people just love quoting dictionaries instead of actually giving a real valid argument or at least an addition to the actual thread today... What, did you think I didn't know the definition of those words?