A Defense Of GTA4

[Therumancer]

I have no problem with Real(ism) however the thing is that when being realistic you still need to balance it with the abillity to enjoy the game.

I think GTA IV gets a lot of the flak it does because it so transparently bought it's review scores. It was a big deal how much money Microsoft was tossing them for exclusive content, and just think about how many reviewers that wound up buying through advertisement space in their magazines and such.

When a game gets an unquestioned 10 from that many sources it's flaws and sloppy elements are brought to the forefront. For example one of the key "innovations" of GTA IV was the way how you had Niko's contacts actually contact him. The need to constantly interrupt your exploration of the city and doing missions to cart your fat cousin off to dinner or
whatever really broke up the flow of the game and was more of a harassment if anything.

What's more, let's look at Niko. Okay he's an interesting and compelling character, blah blah blah, but consider that one of the big selling points of the competition is to create your own guy. I think a lot of people (like me) were far more impressed with Saint's Row 2 for this reason as much as anything else.

All comments about the details and such in GTA IV also become debatable, the more "realistic" enviroment also meant that the game had to track less elements at one time. For example in Saint's Row 2 the enviroments were NOT as good, BUT at the same time you could have both a gang AND the police in pursuit of you at once, and then drive them through friendly territory and have your own gang bangers act in your defense. It does this without any real loading or slowdown. In comparison GTA IV had more detailed enviroments but less potentially going on to track.

Both are great games, don't get me wrong, but I do not consider any of the "Sandbox Crime Games" to be '10' material at the moment. GTA 4's reviews sort of showcased problems with the review "industry" I believe.

Now yeah, there are fanboys on both sides of the fence, but when you get down to the meat and potatos of the arguement, both SR 2 and GTA 4 between them had the right stuff to make a 10 game. Put SR 2's customization into GTA 4, come up with a compromise between the two driving systems, omit the stupidity of people calling you every 10 minutes, and add in all the details like GTA 4's Internet and TV programs and such. Kill GTA 4's minigames and replace them with the stuff from SR 2, sandwich together the radio stations (doubling the material), and then (hopefully) make the game actuall "M" rated instead of a "T" rated game with an "M" label, ignoring all of the ESRB and govermental pressure. Gogo more sex and flashier violence. All of this and you'd have a '10'. Right now I'd personally give SR 2 a 9 and GTA 4 an 8. SR 2 getting the extra point because of the customization.

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>>>----Therumancer--->

 

[Therumancer]

Hmm. I love the game, even if it has flaws. But I can ignore any flaws in a game that has Little Jacob. Hell, give me a game about him and his mate (can't recall the name) and I'd be happy as pig in mud. Although I would be hard pressed to follow much of the dialogue. But hey, I like a challenge.

Besides, if you wanna be left alone that bad then turn the phone off. I'm sure they put that function in for a reason.

What I can't understand is how people can compare it to Fallout 3 and say Fallout was better at sandboxing. That game gets so dame tedious and boring at times I feel like crying. "Oh, more raiders. Guess I'll kill them like the last 437 raiders. Ooh, a completely boring town that makes no sense and seemingly has no way of making food. Guess I'll do the side quests and kill some ants. Then I'll hop along and find Lincolns hat. Yay!"
Also: +5 Science Labcoats? WTF? Is this a fantasy game where the lab coats get enchanted?

/off topic Fallout 3 rant

Well I think the idea is that the labcoats and such have tools in the pockets or whatever. Hey, you've got to have treasure somehow.

Otherwise I DO feel your pain, Bethesda's biggest weakness as an RPG producer has been their ridiculously limited bestiary, this has been an issue going back as far as Arena.

That said, I *DO* feel Fallout 3 is a much better game, but then again I'm more of an RPG nut than a crime game nut.

The problem with turning off your phone in GTA IV is that if you do that, then you can wind up losing the abillities you gained from your contacts. I vastly prefer gaining an abillity and then having the abillity remain with you. Not to mention that they added an achievement in for juggling this, and honestly I don't think there should be an achievement for enduring annoyance factor.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

I wanted more clothes for Niko.lol.

CJ had more haircut and clothing options, which strangely enough mattered a lot to me.

 

[Gamer137]

It's a good game that gets a bit too much backlash, but that is natural when the press gives it so much love. Best game of the generation? Not in a million years for me. Only played though it twice, and TLAD was not as good as expected.

 

[Zelurien]

I felt like i was watching a combination of the Godfather and American Gangster.

That was the tone that they were aiming for. If you don't like it, that's fine, but you can't really criticise a game for doing what it intended to do.

I think this is the crux of it. GTA4 picked what it wanted to be and absolutely nailed it.

If you wanted interaction with other characters in the game, the mobile phone was awesome. I personally found the constant phone calls somewhat of a nuisance but enjoyed some of the abilities you could get.

The general feel of the city was great. I didn't like the soundtrack as much but the radio shows were as awesome as ever.

I missed the crazy characters that San Andreas had (like James Woods and Peter Fonda) but I didn't miss the stupidly hard missions that you had to try like a million times (that might have just been me).

It's unfortunate that it seems so many people were disappointed. I hope they don't try and do a Saints Row type game for the next GTA. (if they do one) I hope rockstar carry on pushing things forward. You can't please everyone.

 

[Syphonz]

Story
This is something that GTA4 really doesn't get enough credit for. Niko is easily one of the most compelling protagonists in gaming simply due to his realism as a character. He is sympathetic, genuinely nice to those he cares about and regrets many of his actions throughout the game. How many other games can you talk about which have a character that actually goes through a development curve throughout the progress of the game? Beyond Good and Evil is one of the few that I can currently think of, though I'm sure that you guys will be able to conjure up some more.

Also have to disagree with this. Niko was inconsistant. In one cutscene he'd be whining about his past "I killed people, sold people, all bad things I should never have done" and then he'd turn around and kill a mob of people for a few hundred dollars and not even be hesitant. The Story's Direction however was at least straight forward and you knew it would it come to, unlike San Andreas story which had so many different directions you completely forget about Sweet, Grove Street, for most of the story.

 

[Jupsto]

well I quite liked niko, he reminded me alot of the polish people I used to work with. he had a bit of depth and character which I cant remember in previous GTA games.

everyone was raving about gta4 when it came out but as usual I waited for price to come down somewhat and bought it recently, but even then it was a waste of money.

only part I like was the radiostations. especially the conservative radio that just takes the piss out of racists, sexists and fundies. often just loose interest in the same repitive kill X fetch X drive X missions just to listen in.

I can run crysis maxed but gta gives me graphical lag even though it looks alot worse? when it rains it pretty much freezes up.

obviously the PC version seems a very bad port maybe i'd like it more on console, either way thats some minus rep fro rockstar in my book for trying to ripp off pc gamers. plus having to install and run rockstar social club AND windows live just to play the game is a joke.

even though I bought the game legally probably gona look for a illegal patch just so I can play without all that hassle and secure-rom ***** not reading disk properly.

all in all not going to buy a GTA game unless they do a remake of the london one and port it properly to PC, then I might just jizz my pants. until then the franchise just hasn't been interesting for me past vice city.

 

[antipunt]

Realism and a great game are correlative. No causal

 

[quack35]

Yes its realistic woop dee doo. If I want realism I open my door and walk outside. A game should never sacrfice fun for realism as GTA did.

But it didn't, it was more fun than any other GTA.

There, I said it.

True 'dat!

 

[teh_gunslinger]

Spoiler: Words and stuff

Hmm. I love the game, even if it has flaws. But I can ignore any flaws in a game that has Little Jacob. Hell, give me a game about him and his mate (can't recall the name) and I'd be happy as pig in mud. Although I would be hard pressed to follow much of the dialogue. But hey, I like a challenge.

Besides, if you wanna be left alone that bad then turn the phone off. I'm sure they put that function in for a reason.

What I can't understand is how people can compare it to Fallout 3 and say Fallout was better at sandboxing. That game gets so dame tedious and boring at times I feel like crying. "Oh, more raiders. Guess I'll kill them like the last 437 raiders. Ooh, a completely boring town that makes no sense and seemingly has no way of making food. Guess I'll do the side quests and kill some ants. Then I'll hop along and find Lincolns hat. Yay!"
Also: +5 Science Labcoats? WTF? Is this a fantasy game where the lab coats get enchanted?

/off topic Fallout 3 rant

Well I think the idea is that the labcoats and such have tools in the pockets or whatever. Hey, you've got to have treasure somehow.

Otherwise I DO feel your pain, Bethesda's biggest weakness as an RPG producer has been their ridiculously limited bestiary, this has been an issue going back as far as Arena.

That said, I *DO* feel Fallout 3 is a much better game, but then again I'm more of an RPG nut than a crime game nut.

The problem with turning off your phone in GTA IV is that if you do that, then you can wind up losing the abillities you gained from your contacts. I vastly prefer gaining an abillity and then having the abillity remain with you. Not to mention that they added an achievement in for juggling this, and honestly I don't think there should be an achievement for enduring annoyance factor.

While I see your point about the lab coat I'll say it's a bit contrived. And it doesn't explain bonuses from Lincoln's Hat and various glasses and stuff.

But I agree that the friends part of the game could have been handled better, but on the whole I think GTAIV was a stellar game, albeit with some flaws and annoyances. Just as any game. And as I said, personally I was able to look past them. I just had to phone up Jacob and I was happy again. He was the only one I found actually somewhat fun to spend time with. Don't get me started on Dwayne the Depressed Ex-Con.

And Fallout 3 was a good game, no doubt, but I think it had some large blunders. And I didn't really feel it was very open in it's nature. You could decide the order of the quests but that was about it (I think). Your characters skills had very little effect on the game, with regards to conversations and such. The player don't have a lot of choices in how to handle quests without shooting stuff up, and you can't be a retarded moron like you could in the old Fallout games. I guess it was a great game, but a bad Fallout game, if you can say that?

 

[Strafe Mcgee]

summery, GTA was good but not as good as it could of been, there are much more fun sandbox's out there such as fallout 3, realism went too far in GTA and retracted from the game rather than adding to it.

I don't think it's really fair or appropriate to compare GTA4 to Fallout 3 since they're completely different games. Whilst Fallout 3's a sci-fi rpg, GTA is a realistic gangster story. Besides, you could accuse Fallout 3 of many of the same faults as GTA. Outside of the quests, what's there to do in Fallout?

...Pretty much nothing outside of exploration.

 

[Strafe Mcgee]

The real travesty is that Chinatown Wars is so much better than gta4 and it's not getting recognized.

I love Chinatown wars but in many ways it's a regression back to previous GTA games and apart from the Drug-dealing mini game (which is fantastic) really falls back on the previous games' legacy. Was it great? Yup. Was it new? Nope.

 

[Squarewave]

I never understood why so many people hate on the game (and other games) for looking too realistic. Sure the driving could of been a bit less realistic, but a huge amount of the 'fun factor' of the game came from doing unrealistic things in a realistic looking world.

When a game looks cartoony my suspension of disbelief kicks in and I don't even think twice about doing crazy things. In a mario type game for example jumping 15ft in the air and throwing a turtle shell doesn't seem crazy or fun but a natural part of the environment. I couldn't get into GTA:SA because of this, stealing cars and running over people wasn't much different from just running around as mario stomping on goombas, and in mario I didn't have to do missions for friends who treated you like shit

As far as GTA4 vs Saints Row2, I liked the look and story of GTA4 more, but SR2 is a bit more fun just from brute force of having more things to do

 

[phar]

GTA4 is a great game. I really dont get why people do not like it. Great story and characters and a good sequel to GTA3. Yeah ok ill admit it did get quite annoying all your buddies calling you up to play pool or whatever but it still does everything correctly in gaming. It added a heap of new features to the GTA universe which were quite welcomed as well.

What people dont realise is that they are trying to make Liberty City, Vice City and San Andreas as 3 different types of games and not the same game with new skins.

I also loved L&D was interesting seeing the other side of the story.

I dont get why SR2 gets so much praise, it doesnt feel solid at all to play. It is fun but needs some areas fixing up. SAying that I had the PC version which is meant to be a bad port (ran smooth for me) but the game just didnt feel right at all.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

GTA sacrificed some of the fun for the sake of realism. I remember the fun I had in Vice City doing amazing impossible stunts on those conveniently placed ramps strewn all over the city; and going on massive killing sprees and cop chases where I would destroy everything in sight, keep bailing out of my car while i'm driving at full speed and then getting out the minigun and causing destructive mayhem.

THAT is what GTA is about, and what it's always been about, until GTA4 came along. Try and do any of that stuff in GTA4 and you're going to die extremely quickly. Realism is good, I agree that it helps immerse you in the experience, but it doesn't work here because the GTA series has always been the series that I go to in hope of just messing around and having some rediculous violent fun. Vice City is one of my favourite games for that reason.

I am NOT against game series' changing and advancing. Change is good. But only when the change is for the better, and I'm really not pleased with the direction the series is going in.

Also, the controls aren't good on the Xbox360 (I don't know what it's like on other platforms). Neko doesn't respond well to your movements, and the cover system is flawed.

 

[Dr Pussymagnet]

You know what? Fuck hype.

Why is it that some people are still surprised when a game doesn't live up to the hype? I can't recall a single game that actually did so and pleased everyone.

 

[scotth266]

Its not a bad game, in fact its quite good, but in the world of Crackdown and Saint's Row 2, GTA no longer rules the free roam action game genre.

This is all anybody need to know, though Crackdown should use a better system of levelups next time for those damn agility orbs.

Saints Row ONE > GTA4 in my mind, because it exemplified what I was looking for: to run around killing some guys for a decent reason without crucifying me for it, as was the case in GTA4 whenever the wanted level got higher than three stars.

 

[Scobie]

DELETED

 

[Weaver]

All you people who like it obviously didn't play it on the PC.
It is MUCH, like by an order of magnitude easier to drive a real car than use the fucking mouse and keyboard to steer. It should have, like every other freakin' game with a car in it, snapped the camera behind the car, but instead decides it's going to use the mouse to control the camera instead. Not only that, but the mouse is about 3 times more sensitive on the car camera for some reason. What. The. Fuck.

What a mess.

 

[hippo24]

I really didn't like GTA that much.
It was a good game, dont get me wrong, but it just wasn't as fun as it should have been.
Not to say that clones like Saints Row were somehow better.

Frankly open world games are a little hard to do In general, because giving the reins to the gamer completely and trying to create immersive gameplay, rarely works out well.

Frankly I liked TLAD more because it had more emphasis on doing something rather then doing everything.


But maybe my mind is skewed I mean the only open world games I like are
Fallout(all of em)
Crackdown
S.T.A.L.K.E.R
Diablo
ElderScrolls
Dead Rising(yea its open-ended..Ill fight you)
and loosely KOTOR

Maybe my perception is off, but thats what I like, and thats what I want.