A fairer protagonist?

[Ryotknife]

Final Fantasy 13
Phantom brave
suikoden 3 (depending on which of the 3 chars you choose to lead the story)
final fantasy x-2

there are a few RPGs where you play as a male character, but the story revolves around the female lead (FF 10 for example)

Mirrors edge
Sanctum
portal 1 and 2

 

[KingHodor]

A lot of male game characters run around in outfits that accentuate their attractive muscular features, even when their whole bodies are covered (the most egregrious offender being probably Solid Snake in MGS4, where they weren't even his own muscles, but synthetic ones built into the suit). The difference is generally that you rarely get the feeling that they sacrificed usefulness in favor of "sexy" fashion elements and the ability to show off some skin.

Ex.:
* Cleavage in your body armor vest
* High-Heeled combat boots
* Thigh-high boots or stockings (in fashion, the flesh above the garter is the perfect epitomization of desire - in space warfare, it's just a desire to get shot in the femoral artery)
* The armor should have the appearance of sufficient thickness, not just "black latex"
* Armor being built specifically to show off the breasts. The best protection for your mammaries isn't a chainmail bra or a large dome for each individual breast, it's a chest protector that takes into account the fact that real boobs aren't usually rock-hard D-size implants and will thus easily fit into the padded material under the armor.

Mass Effect's female Shepard has so far been able to pull that off pretty well.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

And on a related note, Hibana is a good example of how to design a female character to be feminine without being sexual. Here's a picture of her.

Spoiler

Still looks pretty sexualised;

*Stance
*Tight costume that clearly shows curves.
*Lacy clothing that exposes a good amount of skin.

Personally, I think Ginchiyo Tachibana from Samurai Warriors 3 would be a better example...

Maybe a better wording of the original post would be, 'alluring without being insulting'?

Her stance is still pretty sexy, but the camera is not looking up her skirt or down her cleavage, nor is she looking at the camera with an overly-sexualised expression. She's clearly the sort of person who wouldn't stand for that, and it's also granting the male audience the credit of being able to find someone attractive without the most obvious parts of her being shoved right in our faces.

Her costume is tight granted, but at least she's wearing something more substantial than a thong. From this I can tell that the outfit is built for speed rather than damage protection, but it's refreshing to see that the developers haven't just used that as an excuse to put her in as little clothing as possible, and actually put some thought into what the best design for such an outfit might actually be. Also, she is indeed curvy, but in a way that could actually be considered realistic for a human. Again, the designers have enough respect for their female audience, and enough faith in their male audience, to know that they don't need to give her breasts the size of wrecking balls in order for her to be well-received.

The netting? OK, that's a little unnecessary. But still, baby steps right?

From a male perspective, I actually find this character model more attractive than the majority of the female characters I see in games. It's just my personal preference, but I get even more annoyed than some girls I know when I see a female character that is obviously only there to pander to boys of my age. In a way, it's just as insulting to men as it is to women. They are presuming that we are all Neanderthals who can't possibly stand for having a girl in our game unless she has a wank factor of 10. Now I can't speak for anyone else but insulting my intelligence has never been a big turn-on for me.

Edit: Forgot to add. Your example is also a very good one.

OP: I think the game industry would find male audiences much more comfortable with the idea of female protagonists, and reasonably proportioned ones at that, if they stopped making baseless presumptions about what we like.

 

[Iron Mal]

Games that I can think of with female protaganists/main characters for games that are more centered on a group dynamic:

- Tomb Raider
- Metroid
- Heavenly Swords
- Mirror's Edge
- Blood Rayne
- Silent Hill 3
- Final Fantasy (quite a few of them)
- Resident Evil/2/3/Code Veronica/5/Outbreak
- Alien Trilogy (yes, my favourite game ever has a female protaganist)
- Every fighting game ever made
- Perfect Dark
- Portal
- Diablo II
- Any of the movie licensed Alien games
- Beyond Good and Evil
- Jurassic Park: Trespasser
- Golden Axe
- Project Zero II

And many, many, many more.

There are plenty of games with female protaganists out there (and more than a few of them have rather positive and non-sexualised representations of women, yes, a lot of games do focus on the T&A but I think it'd be a little dishonest to say it's a universal thing) so I find it a bit weird when some people ask the proverbial question of 'why are female protaganists so rare?'.

Female protaganists aren't rare at all and it isn't exactly as if you have to look into the dark, deep pits of the rare and obscure to find examples.

 

[Furioso]

bi-sexual

Bisexual.

At the risk of being considered a "Grammar Nazi," it's one word. Not to mention, the use of the hyphen makes me think of Boston Legal:

ah ok was never really sure on that

 

[German Borbon]

the truth is plain, simple and very painful. women in gaming are seen as a sentient japanese love pillow, i know its controversial and all but in the vast majority of games girls are of three kinds:

1;the princess peach: a cute girl who needs help of any kind, she cant do a freaking thing and only the hero can save her. at the end the hero rescues her and she falls in love for him

2; the lara croft: a butch, strong lady with barely no feelings that goes along with the hero for his adventures, she complains costantly that she is underrated because she is a girl, at the end she falls for the hero

3; the catwoman: she is the equivalent of the hero, abilities, strenght, everything, she constantly tries to get in the hero´s pants and her only personality when she is in character is being sexy, she can get in a character development or have a double morale but for everybody she is and always be the hot girl

sadly we haven´t grown out of those stereotypes and we really need to if other people want to take gaming seriouslly

 

[Voulan]

2; the lara croft: a butch, strong lady with barely no feelings that goes along with the hero for his adventures, she complains costantly that she is underrated because she is a girl, at the end she falls for the hero

You've never played a Tomb Raider game, have you? Lara's never been butch, ever complained, nor has she ever fallen for a hero - she is the hero. I wouldn't call her a sterotype of that description at all.

I'd also like to point out that many of the antagonists for TR are female. ;D

 

[SnakeoilSage]

Dude, I'd so play a game about a kunoichi doing kunoichi stuff. You could have "daytime" minigames where you do all kinds of tasks to protect your cover - serve in court, organize the household, ensure your samurai husband stays in the dark about your illicit activities and that he always gets his allowance to go spend on the geisha - then by night you dress in black and stalk through the halls, delivering poisons, stealing messages from visiting samurai, delivering hidden messages to your fellow ninja, performing absolute stealth kills (like that old "drip poison down a string into their mouth" trick) and the like.

You take jobs from various employers, and eventually uncover a secret plot to take control of the Shogunate. After betraying you, you secretly infiltrate a former employer and manipualte his household into a costly war, thus ensuring your survival and justice for the ursurper.

OT: It's still an odd issue with women taking a lead role in video games. Anachronistic, too, 'cause this is the freakin' 21st century.

I like female characters like Aveline and Flemeth from Dragon Age/Dragon Age 2. No, not main characters, but they're examples of strong females in video games. And they're not exactly sexualized. Not unless you count Flemeth in a platemail bikini, which is just a little alarming.

 

[Zorak the Mantis]

The issue I have with protagonists is generally not their gender, but rather their overall designs, motivations, and attitudes. There have been many games where the character was just too generic, all of the gruff space marine types for instance. That particular concept worked well the first few times that we saw it. However we have yet to really see a gruff female space marine type, and I think that is because our society does not see women as being tough and brutal in the same way as men.

That being said, there are some instances where a male character or female character just makes more sense, for example historically based games generally have male protagonists due to the fact that men were pretty much dominant in society at the time, take Assassin's Creed for example with Altair and Ezio. Recast them as female and the game would have been VERY different, assuming you kept with historical fact.

On the flip side I think Mirror's Edge is a great example of a strong female lead. Faith is fast and agile and I believe that making her female helped reinforce those qualities. And yes, I know I'm treading on stereotype territory here, but women are generally considered more flexible and agile than men, so in this case it helped create a stronger character in my opinion.

So that little rant aside, I think the real issue I have with game protagonists is whether or not they are believable, unique, and memorable and not their gender. Although it would be nice to see more games with a strong female lead

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

And on a related note, Hibana is a good example of how to design a female character to be feminine without being sexual. Here's a picture of her.

Spoiler

Still looks pretty sexualised;

*Stance
*Tight costume that clearly shows curves.
*Lacy clothing that exposes a good amount of skin.

Personally, I think Ginchiyo Tachibana from Samurai Warriors 3 would be a better example...

Maybe a better wording of the original post would be, 'alluring without being insulting'?

Her stance is still pretty sexy, but the camera is not looking up her skirt or down her cleavage, nor is she looking at the camera with an overly-sexualised expression. She's clearly the sort of person who wouldn't stand for that, and it's also granting the male audience the credit of being able to find someone attractive without the most obvious parts of her being shoved right in our faces.

Her costume is tight granted, but at least she's wearing something more substantial than a thong. From this I can tell that the outfit is built for speed rather than damage protection, but it's refreshing to see that the developers haven't just used that as an excuse to put her in as little clothing as possible, and actually put some thought into what the best design for such an outfit might actually be. Also, she is indeed curvy, but in a way that could actually be considered realistic for a human. Again, the designers have enough respect for their female audience, and enough faith in their male audience, to know that they don't need to give her breasts the size of wrecking balls in order for her to be well-received.

The netting? OK, that's a little unnecessary. But still, baby steps right?

From a male perspective, I actually find this character model more attractive than the majority of the female characters I see in games. It's just my personal preference, but I get even more annoyed than some girls I know when I see a female character that is obviously only there to pander to boys of my age. In a way, it's just as insulting to men as it is to women. They are presuming that we are all Neanderthals who can't possibly stand for having a girl in our game unless she has a wank factor of 10. Now I can't speak for anyone else but insulting my intelligence has never been a big turn-on for me.

Edit: Forgot to add. Your example is also a very good one.

OP: I think the game industry would find male audiences much more comfortable with the idea of female protagonists, and reasonably proportioned ones at that, if they stopped making baseless presumptions about what we like.

Thank you. That's what I was trying to go for with my statement. But I just ended up with my foot in my mouth, and each sentence I tried to make to justify it just ended up adding seasoning.

And there are a surprising amount of games out there with female protagonists. I guess I should have thought a little deeper about the topic before posting it. Now I just look like an idiot trying to see bias where there isn't.

Games that I can think of with female protaganists/main characters for games that are more centered on a group dynamic:

- Tomb Raider
- Metroid
- Heavenly Swords
- Mirror's Edge
- Blood Rayne
- Silent Hill 3
- Final Fantasy (quite a few of them)
- Resident Evil/2/3/Code Veronica/5/Outbreak
- Alien Trilogy (yes, my favourite game ever has a female protaganist)
- Every fighting game ever made
- Perfect Dark
- Portal
- Diablo II
- Any of the movie licensed Alien games
- Beyond Good and Evil
- Jurassic Park: Trespasser
- Golden Axe
- Project Zero II

And many, many, many more.

There are plenty of games with female protaganists out there (and more than a few of them have rather positive and non-sexualised representations of women, yes, a lot of games do focus on the T&A but I think it'd be a little dishonest to say it's a universal thing) so I find it a bit weird when some people ask the proverbial question of 'why are female protaganists so rare?'.

Female protaganists aren't rare at all and it isn't exactly as if you have to look into the dark, deep pits of the rare and obscure to find examples.

Well, of those, there aren't many Final Fantasy games where the main character is a female. Party members? Sure. But the main character? That would be VI, X-2, and XIII. I'm pretty sure that the main character of Resident Evil 2 is male (isn't it Leon Kennedy?) and I know the main character of Resident Evil 5 is male. Alien...you are technically accurate there, but there is nothing to really show that the Queen is a female other than "we say so". Fighting games, how many have the main character, the one the story revolves around, be a female? Dead or Alive, and that's it. Diablo II, you create your own character, so it's giving you a choice, not having the main character necessarily be female. Golden Axe, same thing.

The others are examples, but when I say that female protagonists are rare, I mean that it's much, much more common to see games where the male is the main character and the females are supporting characters, rather than vice-versa.

 

[Axolotl]

I'm pretty sure that the main character of Resident Evil 2 is male (isn't it Leon Kennedy?)

Resident Evil 2 had 2 campaigns, one with Leon as the playable character and one with Claire Redfield.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

I'm pretty sure that the main character of Resident Evil 2 is male (isn't it Leon Kennedy?)

Resident Evil 2 had 2 campaigns, one with Leon as the playable character and one with Claire Redfield.

OK, so it's another one with a female option, but not having THE main character be a female.

 

[German Borbon]

2; the lara croft: a butch, strong lady with barely no feelings that goes along with the hero for his adventures, she complains costantly that she is underrated because she is a girl, at the end she falls for the hero

You've never played a Tomb Raider game, have you? Lara's never been butch, ever complained, nor has she ever fallen for a hero - she is the hero. I wouldn't call her a sterotype of that description at all.

I'd also like to point out that many of the antagonists for TR are female. ;D

well buddy, you are right, i have never played a whole tomb raider game, i was just giving the impression of the people who look at it from an exterior position, sorry if i gave you the wrong image. by the way, what do you think will be a better example for the "butch" kind of girl?

 

[Nieroshai]

14 now, adding in Portal, FFXIII, FF X-2, Silent Hill 3, and Bayonetta.

But I suppose the bigger issue is not just the lack of female characters, but lack of variation in them. I mean, half the female main characters we've thought of are very blatantly sexualized, like Ruby from "Wet" and especially Bayonetta.

As far as sexuality, Ruby was very underplayed. Except for a bit of midriff, there was no attempt to sexualize her. And if you refer to face and breasts, then you need to start asking devs of male-starring games why all the protagonists have huge muscles and statuesque faces. No one likes an ugly protagonist, even if that means you make one unrealistically ideal.
Samus is sexualized to a minor extent, but only when you intentionally go for the speedrun ending. Otherwise, unless you are attracted to power armor you have no case there. Lightning wasn't sexualized, she was just pretty. As any female that isn't ugly would probably be. In Portal, Chell is rarely seen, and only then if you do some creative portal arranging, and she is just female, nothing exploitative once again. In Silent Hill 3, it's a teenager. She tries to look hip and fashionable, and even then she's one of the plainer grittier giirls on this list. Bayonetta on the other hand is a sexual fantasy.

Even then, once again, why are we complaining about attractive feminine women when we have a deluge of either manly boulders of men or androgynous prettyboys? Simple answer to my wall of text: games are entertainment, full of ideal people doing awesome people. You want realism, play a sim.

There do need to be more female protagonists, and members of either gender can play as either gender just fine as long as the game is good. I myself play all-female characters on MMOs. This may be partially be me living out my secret regret not being born female.

 

[PonceyMcTosserFaic]

Make that 8. I just remember Ruby from "Wet". Remember? That Taratino based game from last year? No? Deleting the rest of the post due to being a big mistake.

i love that game. wish they would make WET 2.

 

[Voulan]

2; the lara croft: a butch, strong lady with barely no feelings that goes along with the hero for his adventures, she complains costantly that she is underrated because she is a girl, at the end she falls for the hero

You've never played a Tomb Raider game, have you? Lara's never been butch, ever complained, nor has she ever fallen for a hero - she is the hero. I wouldn't call her a sterotype of that description at all.

I'd also like to point out that many of the antagonists for TR are female. ;D

well buddy, you are right, i have never played a whole tomb raider game, i was just giving the impression of the people who look at it from an exterior position, sorry if i gave you the wrong image. by the way, what do you think will be a better example for the "butch" kind of girl?

Sorry if that came across as patronizing. I'm a big fan of Tomb Raider, so I thought I'd clarify your idea there. From an outsiders position, I still wouldn't call her butch, however - though emotionless would probably be an observation.

I can't think of any exact butch character, but I know there is the stereotypical mechanic-girl within some games (usually dressed in overalls) who's usually more of a "tough" character than a sex symbol. From a non-game example, look at the female pilot from the Avatar movie, or even the girl from the Atlantis Disney movie.

EDIT: Similar to what sravankb mentions two posts above this.