A few questions

[Doclector]

I've been recieving flak for my views on social habits, especially that L word. for a while now. Not lesbians. Goddamnit due to the subject matter of that film, I have steered clear of it knowing it'd depress me, and people still insist on bothering me with that accursed joke that wasn't amazingly funny in the first place.

Now that particular emotion has tried to make me depressed again by reminding me every opportunity it gets that I fail at it, and I find myself curious as to what other people would say, and I want clear answers that make some sort of logical sense here, not cliches or fairy tales.

If people do not like (as in, you know what) other people mainly based on looks. then what is it based on? And don't say confidence unless you're going to back it up with logical reasoning, no cliches or Gok Wan quotes. I'm not stupid. What, if I believe that I'm not a horrifying abomination, I'll jedi mind trick the poor girl into believing it herself? Is it supposed to bring out my best aspects of my personality? Admittedly that'd make sense, but how is she meant to ignore my disgusting form?

What about rejection? How do I deal with it? See, rejection is much more than No. People will know about it. People talk, they don't keep it quiet, and it will be a subject of shame. "Oh do you hear he asked out so and so, and she rejected him like a bad organ transplant? What a loser." I'd have to cut all ties with that social circle, and if I approach a stranger it'll be worse. A good looking person asking someone to dance is charming, an ugly person asking is scary, a downer on her night, and with enough paranoia involved, sexual harassment.

And how in all that is logical can somebody who has been a virgin far longer than socially acceptable ever be seen as attractive? C'mon. It's basically saying "I suck". Even if I got together with some girl, she'll dump me as soon as she finds out I'm crap in the sack.

So, answers, logical, answers with clear reasoning, no cliches, no perfect little f***ing fairy tales, this is neither beauty or the beast or shrek, and it ain't big bang theory either. This is reality, where people aren't perfect and they're rarely nice, and if you want to convince me otherwise, you best have a good argument as to why.

Captcha: Call me. I didn't know the captcha maker had booked themselves an emergency lobotomy, but clearly that's what it's asking for.

And yes, I sound like I've snapped. Probably because I have. A little.

 

[ReadyAmyFire]

L word

I'm going to assume that refers to love? In which case:

"some sort of logical sense here"
"back it up with logical reasoning"
"logical can somebody"
"So, answers, logical, answers with clear reasoning"

Logic does not apply to love, it can't be quantified or rationalised, it makes logical people behave illogically. Live long and prosper.

"my disgusting form"

I'm going to guess you aren't disgusting, unless you've suffered an accident or birth defect or something similar. If you're just a run-of-the-mill unattractive person, good news; some of us aren't that attractive either, some of us are even virgins too.

"How do I deal with it?"

You just do, very few people haven't been rejected, and if someone actually uses that as a reason to judge you then fuck them, they're holding you to a standard they themselves likely can't meet either. If you spend all your days worrying about what other people think then you deserve to be miserable. Noone who got anywhere in life gave a shit what anyone thought.

As for asking people out/to dance etc. The worst thing you can do is not even try. I went to play football for the first time in my life a few weeks ago with people who have been doing it since they were 6-7. At first they took the piss of my wearing jeans (don't have shorts) and not having a clue how to play properly, but at the end of it most of them were more than friendly and some even thanked me for filling in. Good people will appreciate effort and confidence, even if you make a mess of it.

 

[A Silent Enigma]

To me, it seems you are too hung up on what everyone else thinks of you, why should this matter?? People for whom you do not know should have no impact on your life, they shouldn't bother you and their opinion should not matter.

You have to be comfortable in your own skin and with who you are. If your 'friends' are ripping into you and know it hurts you, then they aren't your friends, ditch them and try and make new ones by doing hobbies that interest you, where you meet people who think like you do.

Not asking someone to dance is worse then being rejected, because you will look back on it and think I wish I tried, it is much better to try and subsequently fail then not to try at all, learn from it.

I'm 26 and I know quite a few people my own age who are still virgins, some because they are waiting till they are married, others because they haven't had the relationship where they wanted to lose it. Everyone is different, and seriously, sex isn't the be all and end all of life, you need to be able to communicate and do everything else well, and then yes, sex can be amazing in those circumstances (personal preference there)and there is no way for people to know if you've had sex or not. When you are ready, in a relationship and with a person who has had experience, I'm sure you'll talk about sex, as if you can't talk about it, you aren't ready to do it. If that person is worth anything they will be kind, considerate and guide you as much as they can.

 

[Doclector]

"my disgusting form"

I'm going to guess you aren't disgusting, unless you've suffered an accident or birth defect or something similar. If you're just a run-of-the-mill unattractive person, good news; some of us aren't that attractive either, some of us are even virgins too.

Not many. Not around here. Nobody's even remotely in my league around here, hell, I'd probably have to go to a freak show to find somebody who was. And yes, leagues exist. I'm fed up of people saying they don't. Why would someone who can do so much better go out with someone ugly?

"How do I deal with it?"

You just do, very few people haven't been rejected, and if someone actually uses that as a reason to judge you then fuck them, they're holding you to a standard they themselves likely can't meet either. If you spend all your days worrying about what other people think then you deserve to be miserable. Noone who got anywhere in life gave a shit what anyone thought.

I don't normally care what people think of me, but this is a basic thing that I'm supposed to be good at as a human being. Sure, I have aspergers, but it's no excuse to be shit at something so basic.

 

[ReadyAmyFire]

Not many. Not around here. Nobody's even remotely in my league around here, hell, I'd probably have to go to a freak show to find somebody who was. And yes, leagues exist. I'm fed up of people saying they don't. Why would someone who can do so much better go out with someone ugly?

They wouldn't, though personality can make up some of the shortfall. Yup leagues exist, I'd consider myself a 6, maybe 7 on a good night, So I don't go for anyone <5, same 9's tend not to be interested in me.

I don't normally care what people think of me, but this is a basic thing that I'm supposed to be good at as a human being. Sure, I have aspergers, but it's no excuse to be shit at something so basic.

My friend's brother has Asperger's, he won't even admit to liking girls even though we've found pornography on his laptop and he pervs on us like nothing else, we found pictures of a few of us in bikinis saved on it, which he presumably saved off facebook. But I digress, I can't pretend to understand the condition.

 

[bluepilot]

It seems like you have very little to zero self esteem. When it comes to dealing with rejection, failing, and your own personal defects, self esteem is a big one. Self esteem is a bummer though because unless stuff like rejection happens to you, you will never have any.

I am taking the perspective of a "normal" person, or in other words, someone who has not been diagnosed with a disorder that seriously affects their day to day living and social interaction (my own personal habits and personality being a different issue altogether), but I think that the problems you are having are best handled by a professional who knows more about your condition.

I don't have any logical reasoning for the "self esteem" stuff, but people liking you is not logical process either. To be honest, I'm not that great socially either and it took me a long time to learn how to make friends but at the end of the day it was small stupid stuff like baking everyone a cake that helped. It was like,"yeah, okay, she is kind of weird and says strange things sometimes, but she did bring us cake."

 

[MidnightCat]

"How do I deal with it?"

You just do, very few people haven't been rejected, and if someone actually uses that as a reason to judge you then fuck them, they're holding you to a standard they themselves likely can't meet either. If you spend all your days worrying about what other people think then you deserve to be miserable. Noone who got anywhere in life gave a shit what anyone thought.

I don't normally care what people think of me, but this is a basic thing that I'm supposed to be good at as a human being. Sure, I have aspergers, but it's no excuse to be shit at something so basic.

Being afraid of rejection is completely understandable. Many people, myself included, have a fear of rejection and/or judgement that impedes our social interactions to some degree.
Unfortunately, as long as it's the social norm for men to ask women out, you're going to have to go out there and face potential rejection if you want a relationship. But I wonder, is rejection necessarily going to be as bad as you think it will be? Have you ever had to cut ties with a social group, or were you made to feel like crap, because you expressed interest in a girl and she rejected you?

A good looking person asking someone to dance is charming, an ugly person asking is scary, a downer on her night, and with enough paranoia involved, sexual harassment.

Not at all! Women who enjoy regular nights out drinking and/or dancing will typically have had to put up with worse crap than being asked to dance by guys they consider unattractive - and that's assuming that they'll find you unattractive. In any case, what's the worst that could happen? She'll tell you 'No' and laugh it off with her friends, and won't remember it five minutes later. You'll be disheartened, but you'll never see her again, so what does it matter?

And how in all that is logical can somebody who has been a virgin far longer than socially acceptable ever be seen as attractive? C'mon. It's basically saying "I suck". Even if I got together with some girl, she'll dump me as soon as she finds out I'm crap in the sack.

I'm going to start this one by saying that there are many guys with sexual experience who are crap in the sack, and by the time you get to that point at least you'll have some of your own. Also, chances are you'll begin a relationship with a girl who has little-to-no experience, and you can work it out together. There are plenty of women your age who still haven't had sex, and even those who have wouldn't (I hope) usually dump someone after a first sexual encounter, unless they're just looking for a quick fling.
Of course, that's something that you won't need to worry about until you're in a relationship, and probably not even then.

 

[370999]

Right if you do have any real problems then I'm sorry for this post as it might sound a bit harsh.

Get over yourself.

You probably aren't the ugliest person in the world, nor the most socially awkward not the virginal.

If people do not like (as in, you know what) other people mainly based on looks. then what is it based on? And don't say confidence unless you're going to back it up with logical reasoning, no cliches or Gok Wan quotes. I'm not stupid. What, if I believe that I'm not a horrifying abomination, I'll jedi mind trick the poor girl into believing it herself? Is it supposed to bring out my best aspects of my personality? Admittedly that'd make sense, but how is she meant to ignore my disgusting form?

Money, humor, fashion sense, charisma, cuteness, affability, etc...

Every person has different standards. I'm only really interested in Christian girls, others would recoil in horror if they saw a girl carrying a Bible around.

I sincerely doubt you are as horrifying as you make yourself sound. Unattractive? Probably but so are a lot of people. There is more to being desirable then just looks.

But maybe your appearance is a deal-breaker. Then you move on and ask out another girl.

What about rejection? How do I deal with it? See, rejection is much more than No. People will know about it. People talk, they don't keep it quiet, and it will be a subject of shame. "Oh do you hear he asked out so and so, and she rejected him like a bad organ transplant? What a loser." I'd have to cut all ties with that social circle, and if I approach a stranger it'll be worse. A good looking person asking someone to dance is charming, an ugly person asking is scary, a downer on her night, and with enough paranoia involved, sexual harassment.

People won't talk about it that much really. They will laugh to themselves but pretty soon forget it. You aren't the center of the world, people do have other things happen in their lives.

You are being melodramatic when it comes to asking out a friend. Most people will brush it off, if they don't then it's not a great social circle. And gossip isn't that hard to ignore, I cab tell you that even if you don't ask someone out you will be gossiped about due to some fuck-up.

Attractive girls when they go out are used to being asked out. Your failure to ask then out won't be especially memorable to them.

And they just might say yes.

nd how in all that is logical can somebody who has been a virgin far longer than socially acceptable ever be seen as attractive? C'mon. It's basically saying "I suck". Even if I got together with some girl, she'll dump me as soon as she finds out I'm crap in the sack.

Not everyone places a premium on sex in a relationship, not everyone is sexually experienced, some girls will be glad to have a willing pupil, etc.

You aren't exceptional in this regard either.

So, answers, logical, answers with clear reasoning, no cliches, no perfect little f***ing fairy tales, this is neither beauty or the beast or shrek, and it ain't big bang theory either. This is reality, where people aren't perfect and they're rarely nice, and if you want to convince me otherwise, you best have a good argument as to why.

Why get into a relationship at all if you believe that people are rarely nice? You sound so bitter that going out with you would be torture for any girl.

Or perhaps you can stop being melodramatic, accept that you probably will be rejected more times then accepted, but that's fine because it's either that or whine on the internet all day.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I want clear answers that make some sort of logical sense here, not cliches or fairy tales.

A clear post would've helped. I'm not trying to be mean, but this was a chore to read at times. Sometimes brevity is your friend when it comes to sharing ideas. Anyway, onwards! To the questions!

If people do not like (as in, you know what) other people mainly based on looks. then what is it based on?

If anyone tells you looks aren't important, that person is lying. Looks are important. To everyone. You MUST meet someone's minimal standards of physical attractiveness in order to qualify as a potential romantic partner. The good news for you is that not everyone shares the same standards. If you honestly believe that you're unattractive, then the best thing you can do to mediate that is stay fit, and stay groomed. Attend to your hygiene. More people sink themselves by being unhealthy and/or gross than because of their monstrous visage. I've known some pretty ugly people in my life who had no trouble at all finding love. And I'm not even being generous with the term ugly, we're talking face like a frying pan.

And don't say confidence unless you're going to back it up with logical reasoning, no cliches or Gok Wan quotes.

It might be a sour pill to swallow, but confidence is enormously important. Arguably AS important as attending to your physical appearance. You want a logical reason? Self-loathing and self-pity is repugnant. It's an enormous turn off. When I did it women couldn't get away from me fast enough, and when women have done it to me I've been shocked at how obnoxious it is. You simply NEED to get on top of your self-esteem issues. You don't need to be arrogant. But you do need to have some self-confidence and self-respect, or even if you do get into a relationship it's not going to last long.

I'm not stupid. What, if I believe that I'm not a horrifying abomination, I'll jedi mind trick the poor girl into believing it herself? Is it supposed to bring out my best aspects of my personality? Admittedly that'd make sense, but how is she meant to ignore my disgusting form?

Pretty hard to respect someone who doesn't respect themselves, and respect is a fundamental building block for any relationship. No jedi mind tricks involved.

What about rejection? How do I deal with it? See, rejection is much more than No. People will know about it. People talk, they don't keep it quiet, and it will be a subject of shame. "Oh do you hear he asked out so and so, and she rejected him like a bad organ transplant? What a loser."

Honestly? No one remotely mature would care. And if they did care, they'd feel badly for you. We've all been rejected at one time or another. Everyone knows how it feels, and believe it or not most people are capable of basic levels of empathy and compassion. I have naught but admiration for anyone who sacks up enough to ask someone out. It's hard!

So, answers, logical, answers with clear reasoning, no cliches, no perfect little f***ing fairy tales, this is neither beauty or the beast or shrek, and it ain't big bang theory either. This is reality, where people aren't perfect and they're rarely nice, and if you want to convince me otherwise, you best have a good argument as to why.

You want reality? You want clear, logical answers with no fairy tales or mollycoddling? The problem is your attitude. Your bitterness, your Eeyore complex, your crashing lack of self-esteem, your general misanthrophic routine. You need to get over this stuff, or you're going to be single for the rest of your life. Perhaps you really are an ugly guy, that just means you have even LESS LEEWAY to act like this if you don't fancy being single. This "woe is me, the world hates me, I'm going to sit in the garden and eat worms" routine is extraordinarily self-indulgent and trite.

If you want to be loved, the quickest route is to BE LOVEABLE. And not in the "I'm deep and unique and no one can understand the secret stirrings of my heart" sense, in the "I'm a person who you would want to spend time with" sense. The type of person who makes other people feel good about themselves. Make them laugh. Do awesome things with them. Be smart, be personable. Be a giving friend. Just be a decent dude. Mope about and ***** about your lot in life and people are going to see you as toxic and depressing. You'd be amazed at how ATTRACTIVE that can make you seem.

 

[Doclector]

I want clear answers that make some sort of logical sense here, not cliches or fairy tales.

A clear post would've helped. I'm not trying to be mean, but this was a chore to read at times. Sometimes brevity is your friend when it comes to sharing ideas. Anyway, onwards! To the questions!

If people do not like (as in, you know what) other people mainly based on looks. then what is it based on?

If anyone tells you looks aren't important, that person is lying. Looks are important. To everyone. You MUST meet someone's minimal standards of physical attractiveness in order to qualify as a potential romantic partner. The good news for you is that not everyone shares the same standards. If you honestly believe that you're unattractive, then the best thing you can do to mediate that is stay fit, and stay groomed. Attend to your hygiene. More people sink themselves by being unhealthy and/or gross than because of their monstrous visage. I've known some pretty ugly people in my life who had no trouble at all finding love. And I'm not even being generous with the term ugly, we're talking face like a frying pan.

And don't say confidence unless you're going to back it up with logical reasoning, no cliches or Gok Wan quotes.

It might be a sour pill to swallow, but confidence is enormously important. Arguably AS important as attending to your physical appearance. You want a logical reason? Self-loathing and self-pity is repugnant. It's an enormous turn off. When I did it women couldn't get away from me fast enough, and when women have done it to me I've been shocked at how obnoxious it is. You simply NEED to get on top of your self-esteem issues. You don't need to be arrogant. But you do need to have some self-confidence and self-respect, or even if you do get into a relationship it's not going to last long.

I'm not stupid. What, if I believe that I'm not a horrifying abomination, I'll jedi mind trick the poor girl into believing it herself? Is it supposed to bring out my best aspects of my personality? Admittedly that'd make sense, but how is she meant to ignore my disgusting form?

Pretty hard to respect someone who doesn't respect themselves, and respect is a fundamental building block for any relationship. No jedi mind tricks involved.

What about rejection? How do I deal with it? See, rejection is much more than No. People will know about it. People talk, they don't keep it quiet, and it will be a subject of shame. "Oh do you hear he asked out so and so, and she rejected him like a bad organ transplant? What a loser."

Honestly? No one remotely mature would care. And if they did care, they'd feel badly for you. We've all been rejected at one time or another. Everyone knows how it feels, and believe it or not most people are capable of basic levels of empathy and compassion. I have naught but admiration for anyone who sacks up enough to ask someone out. It's hard!

So, answers, logical, answers with clear reasoning, no cliches, no perfect little f***ing fairy tales, this is neither beauty or the beast or shrek, and it ain't big bang theory either. This is reality, where people aren't perfect and they're rarely nice, and if you want to convince me otherwise, you best have a good argument as to why.

You want reality? You want clear, logical answers with no fairy tales or mollycoddling? The problem is your attitude. Your bitterness, your Eeyore complex, your crashing lack of self-esteem, your general misanthrophic routine. You need to get over this stuff, or you're going to be single for the rest of your life. Perhaps you really are an ugly guy, that just means you have even LESS LEEWAY to act like this if you don't fancy being single. This "woe is me, the world hates me, I'm going to sit in the garden and eat worms" routine is extraordinarily self-indulgent and trite.

If you want to be loved, the quickest route is to BE LOVEABLE. And not in the "I'm deep and unique and no one can understand the secret stirrings of my heart" sense, in the "I'm a person who you would want to spend time with" sense. The type of person who makes other people feel good about themselves. Make them laugh. Do awesome things with them. Be smart, be personable. Be a giving friend. Just be a decent dude. Mope about and ***** about your lot in life and people are going to see you as toxic and depressing. You'd be amazed at how ATTRACTIVE that can make you seem.

Well, I do my best not to act like that in real life. I hide such problems from real life aquaintances. To be honest, at least on the internet such behaviour is expected, I told anyone this in real life they'd freak out and think I was a nutjob. In real life I do my best to act confident. I am confident in a few things about myself, my sense of humour, my intelligence, that sort of stuff, the sort of stuff I don't believe people care about when it comes to romantic relationships. I act like I don't care about my looks in real life, as much as possible.

Yeah, sure, real friends should be able to understand and care about their friends feelings, but I think as a real friend I shouldn't burden them with mine, especially when the vast majority cannot hope to truly understand my situation, what with most of them having had successful relationships and not being supposedly "disabled", for what that ridiculous word is worth.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Well, I do my best not to act like that in real life. I hide such problems from real life aquaintances. To be honest, at least on the internet such behaviour is expected, I told anyone this in real life they'd freak out and think I was a nutjob. In real life I do my best to act confident. I am confident in a few things about myself, my sense of humour, my intelligence, that sort of stuff, the sort of stuff I don't believe people care about when it comes to romantic relationships. I act like I don't care about my looks in real life, as much as possible.

Yeah, sure, real friends should be able to understand and care about their friends feelings, but I think as a real friend I shouldn't burden them with mine, especially when the vast majority cannot hope to truly understand my situation, what with most of them having had successful relationships and not being supposedly "disabled", for what that ridiculous word is worth.

I hear that, but this stuff can leak out, y'know? We think we're being all suave and self contained and we're really oozing paranoia and bitterness. Desperation and self-loathing have a certain sour odor to them that women in particular are quite adept at picking up on.

Good friends are there to carry your burdens, guy. They help carry your burdens, you help carry theirs. Without that, there would be little point to HAVING friends.

I'm not sure what I'm meant to make of slapping "disabled" into sarcasm quotes. Are you implying your looks are a disability? Seriously man, how bad could it be? I wasn't shitting you when I said I knew some SPECTACULARLY ugly people who still managed to get themselves into relationships.

 

[Doclector]

Well, I do my best not to act like that in real life. I hide such problems from real life aquaintances. To be honest, at least on the internet such behaviour is expected, I told anyone this in real life they'd freak out and think I was a nutjob. In real life I do my best to act confident. I am confident in a few things about myself, my sense of humour, my intelligence, that sort of stuff, the sort of stuff I don't believe people care about when it comes to romantic relationships. I act like I don't care about my looks in real life, as much as possible.

Yeah, sure, real friends should be able to understand and care about their friends feelings, but I think as a real friend I shouldn't burden them with mine, especially when the vast majority cannot hope to truly understand my situation, what with most of them having had successful relationships and not being supposedly "disabled", for what that ridiculous word is worth.

I hear that, but this stuff can leak out, y'know? We think we're being all suave and self contained and we're really oozing paranoia and bitterness. Desperation and self-loathing have a certain sour odor to them that women in particular are quite adept at picking up on.

Good friends are there to carry your burdens, guy. They help carry your burdens, you help carry theirs. Without that, there would be little point to HAVING friends.

I'm not sure what I'm meant to make of slapping "disabled" into sarcasm quotes. Are you implying your looks are a disability? Seriously man, how bad could it be? I wasn't shitting you when I said I knew some SPECTACULARLY ugly people who still managed to get themselves into relationships.

No, I have aspergers syndrome. Apparently, if you're just a bit different and a little smarter than you should be, you're looney. I realise this lends a lot to me being unconventional, but I've never seen it as an excuse or as even a real problem.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

No, I have aspergers syndrome. Apparently, if you're just a bit different and a little smarter than you should be, you're looney. I realise this lends a lot to me being unconventional, but I've never seen it as an excuse or as even a real problem.

Well, it needs to be asked...do you have ASPERGERS, or "Aspergers"? Clinical Aspergers is, to my knowledge, more than a "little bit different", it's pretty close to full blown autism. As in, social interactions aren't just tricky, you're on a completely different planet 95% of the time.

If you're resistant to the diagnosis, there's no need to embrace it. The DSM is really just guidelines, it's hardly an exact science. And autism tends to cast a fairly wide envelope these days, a lot of borderline conditions and "sort of similar to autism" cases get clawed in without necessarily applying.

 

[Doclector]

No, I have aspergers syndrome. Apparently, if you're just a bit different and a little smarter than you should be, you're looney. I realise this lends a lot to me being unconventional, but I've never seen it as an excuse or as even a real problem.

Well, it needs to be asked...do you have ASPERGERS, or "Aspergers"? Clinical Aspergers is, to my knowledge, more than a "little bit different", it's pretty close to full blown autism. As in, social interactions aren't just tricky, you're on a completely different planet 95% of the time.

If you're resistant to the diagnosis, there's no need to embrace it. The DSM is really just guidelines, it's hardly an exact science. And autism tends to cast a fairly wide envelope these days, a lot of borderline conditions and "sort of similar to autism" cases get clawed in without necessarily applying.

It was diagnosed by a doctor when I was about 8, if that's what you're asking.

I know damn well that I'm not normal, but I question the wisdom of a diagnosis that causes more problems than the "disease", if you know what I mean.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

It was diagnosed by a doctor when I was about 8, if that's what you're asking.

I know damn well that I'm not normal, but I question the wisdom of a diagnosis that causes more problems than the "disease", if you know what I mean.

Yeah, it's such a grey territory. If you question the diagnosis, question the diagnosis. It's not like cancer. They can't point to something tangible and say "See? Aspergers". My girlfriend was diagnosed as Bi-Polar when she was 15. She's not Bi-Polar.

It's total fucking guesswork most of the time.

And, having recently become ill, I can tell you the hard medical side of things is total fucking guesswork most of the time, too. =(