I can attest that, as of at least 2009, they still inject you. We called it the peanut butter shot, because that's what it felt like was being injected into you, and I never saw the needle, as it is administered via a buttocks shot.
A few thoughts about January 6, 2021
- Thread starter ObsidianJones
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This is the guy who had to make 3 trips totalling 9 hours during working hours on three separate days due to PennDOT's archaic guidelines, yeah? Any reason you're not counting lost wages?
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They never make you pay for an ID. On top of accepting IDs you almost certainly already have, and providing free ID if you don't, voter ID laws typically have on top of that exceptions allowing people to sign a paper saying they couldn't get photo ID before the election and vote anyway.
And like, considering the number of things in life you need ID to do, people having access to these IDs is good for them. It is a benefit to their lives. But you are unwilling to even imagine anything a Republican wants to do might be a good idea.
...I'm trying to count it once. Whereas you're trying to downplay it, as if 9 hours of lost wages/ 150 dollars in median wage isn't a significant cost.
You know as I've dipped in and out of this thread - and the last Election one - I'm adding an item to my bucket list. I want to travel to the US, in an Election Year, and watch people vote because I must see with my own eyes if it truly is as mind boggling fucking absurd and complicated as these discussions have made it seem.
Yes for first paragraph, no for second. They literally consider the time it takes to learn you need an ID and what that entails to be a cost of the ID in their considerations, though they were at least nice enough not to bill the time it takes for certain government documents to traverse the mail system when requested by mail. They also tend to incorporate a fair bit of people just not being smart about the process and pretend as though that's a reasonable part of the cost (for example, you can look up on your phone what documents you need to get an ID and likewise what might be required to get those in turn, but their very first example case includes an hour bus trip and a 75 minute wait to learn that information). The second example has an extra trip added on because the person didn't understand that being closed on state and federal holidays includes Labor Day.
There's examples of things you could look up on your phone turning into multi-hour bus rides and wait times that should be treated as lost pay that goes to pad those numbers. Literally having to physically go to a DMV location is the biggest cost in many of the cases given.
Again, unless it simply appeared in your mail automatically without you having to do anything, supply any information, supply a photo, or even know you might need it it wouldn't actually be "free" by the standards set in the document.
Time/travel is the largest cost in several cases, and where it isn't it's cases like "this person was born, married, divorced, and remarried in another state and has lost all documentation of any of it, and has to request those documents from another state therefore the cost of that documentation is part of the cost of this ID" (presumably they'll throw all that stuff away afterward so they need to pay it again when it's time to renew as well, since none of the documentation in question expires and none of it has to be relinquished just shown?) or "this person has no existing record of their identity or birth whatsoever and had to ask a judge to sort it out - this was done pro bono but hypothetically could cost a thousand dollars in legal fees".
Weird thought: If it's so difficult or impossible for minorities to get IDs, wouldn't a simple way to target enforcement for alcohol and tobacco sales restrictions be to see where it's popular for minorities to buy their smokes/booze? If they can't get ID, but legally stores need to ID them to sell them alcohol/tobacco, then by definition places where they buy alcohol/tobacco are likely to be breaking the law, right?
Was that also the one for who "state offices are closed on federal and state holidays" isn't enough information, and so tried to go there on Labor Day since the website didn't specifically draw attention to Labor Day as a day it was closed?
I live in a state with a voter ID law, and it's not half as crazy as it sounds. I literally just pop into the polling place on my way home from work (my typical hours make that the easiest time), show them any of about half the cards in my wallet (because I carry something like 7 things that are valid ID for elections in WV on me all the time, I usually use my driver's license but had it been misplaced I have options, and had my entire wallet been lost I could pop by the house and grab other things that are valid election ID from the house easy enough), get handed a blank scantron-style paper ballot in a privacy sleeve and a stub from the voter roll book and sent over to a machine. Feed the ballot into the machine, pick my choices on the machine, and it prints out the filled ovals on the ballot. Walk it over to the scanner, hand them the stub and the ballot, they scan the ballot and it drops into a lockbox. Done.
There are actually two different polling places being run in that one room, because once upon a time they consolidated the location, but there are different local offices on the ballot depending on which polling place it is.
That is weirdly still more steps than I have ever had to go through from memory. But at my next election I’ll be sure to account for each step because memory is a faulty thing.
You being unable to accept that other people don't necessarily have the exact same life situation (and privileges) as yourself is exactly the problem...............
Uhrm, yeah, the cost of required documents that aren't free should obviously be included in the overall cost.
What a bizarre quibble. They're counting things that cost money.
Weird thought: maybe law enforcement shouldn't be based on prejudicial assumptions about minorities.
Can't find those words anywhere, but OK. TBH I find it more telling that you're more interested in quibbling about 1/3 of the time cost, rather than the principle that someone should have to lose over a hundred dollars of wages to get an ID, which would be the case even if you discounted that third trip.
Dunno where you live but in my neck of the woods you only get carded if you look like a kid
Do we get to include that cost again every time there's an address change or renewal? Even though those documents don't expire, you don't have to hand them over and so you really shouldn't need to obtain them more than once, ever?
They're counting things that either weren't required (in the first three examples, they could literally have asked them to look it up on the computer for free, but they still counted the cost of getting the document), or were things you should already have and be holding on to (silly things like marriage licenses, divorce decrees, that sort of thing - those are generally things you get when they happen because you need them for immediate use, and if you're smart at all you hold onto them because they don't expire).
Weird, maybe accusations of minority voter disenfranchisement shouldn't be based on prejudicial assumptions about minorities? All I did was think about how the same specific prejudicial assumption about minorities (they are meaningfully less likely to have ID) might apply in other contexts (businesses that are required to ask customers for ID that serve a significant number of minorities might be good choices to target for enforcement because their customers allegedly are much less likely to have ID).
I find it interesting that "minorities are less likely to have and less able to get ID" is both an important basic fact as far as voter ID but a prejudicial assumption when applied in any other context. Is it a true statement? If so, then it only makes sense to target enforcement of ID requirements to sell tobacco/alcohol at places serving lots of minorities, if not then it makes no sense as an argument that voter ID is actually about disenfranchising minorities.
One of the examples was a guy who tried to go to the DMV on Labor Day and thus they got to charge an extra trip towards his cost, because the DMV website didn't specify they were closed on Labor Day. Because practically all state offices are closed for state and federal holidays, and Labor Day is one of those.
Don't take time off work (and thus don't lose wages) to go to the DMV? Maybe my state is just weird, but my county DMV is open 60 hours a week, 8-6 Mon-Sat. Most work schedules can find an opening in that range sometime, especially if you've got months to find a such an opportunity.
It's just another one of those assumptions that's thrown into the mix to maximize the estimated cost - like people need to go to the DMV to find out what documents are required when that information is generally available online and if for some reason it isn't can be gotten with a phone call.
You include it every time there's an incumbent cost, obviously. The incident in question clearly outlined that that DMV asked for more than was required by state law.
"Silly things", ok. What are you talking about specifically, here? Because in the second example, the DMV refused to transfer his driving licence and accept that because... he still had one that was valid in another state. So yes, that's a "silly thing". And the silly requirement has been created by the state authority, not the individual, and the individual had to pay to overcome it.
It's not a prejudicial assumption to say minorities are less likely to have ID. Its statistically true, and advocacy groups back it up time and again.
What's prejudicial is your idea to weaponise that to assume criminality, and then point the police at those communities.
Cool. Put it on the website then.
What I can't find, by the way, is the stipulation on the PennDOT website that the sites are closed on all state/ federal holidays. You gave a quote; where is it from?
OK, so yours is open weekends. Cool. Lots aren't. The point of the article was never to argue that these situations apply universally.
Because they're all quite reasonable and expectable costs. What else should we do? We're trying to identify how much it might disadvantage the worst-off.
The dipshits running Oz at the moment want to rush in a Voter ID law... because reasons.
Still, voting in Oz is pretty easy (this is for the home viewers not familiar with Democracy, Oz-style)
- Get up on a Saturday morning (yes, voting in Federal and State elections is always on a Saturday)
- Look up the most convenient polling station (usually the local primary school)
- Go to polling station
- Wade through small mass of party drones handing out 'How To Vote' cards, give death stares as necessary
- Line up to enter polling station
- grumble about length of wait
- enter polling station
- get called up to a desk staffed by an AEC (independent org that oversees elections and electorate boundaries and shit) volunteer, get your name checked against the Electoral Roll. Get asked if you've voted already. Get your ballot papers.
- take your ballot papers to the flashy cardboard constructions made for you to vote privately(ish), grab the pencil and do the numbers thing (voting). Optionally, draw dicks on ballot paper... and yes, you can do both as long as the dicks don't obscure your voting preference numbers then your vote still counts.
- fold up ballot papers and stuff them in the appropriate boxes
- leave polling station
- go get sausage on bread
- go home
- wait for Antony Green to declare the winners (j/k)
Nobody has carded me for shit since I was fifteen since I grew to six foot two and my voice broke.
I was initially confused by this sentence, mostly because Dr. Oz is currently running for Senate in my state. I'm glad that's not what you're talking about.
I would be able to say similiar if it wasn't for bouncers that used to card me all the time just to let me know they thought I was gonna be trouble.
Not a bad job being a polling officer, good money, but it's a long day and you are dealing with the public so there's sometimes issues.
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Fuck off Alex Jones!
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