A Game about Religion

[pilouuuu]

Well, The Shivah seems to be interesting. Here is a demo: http://www.wadjeteyegames.com/games/the-shivah/

Other games that talked about religion in some sense were Assassin's Creed, Black & White and Bioshock Infinite, although the last one is very poor in its comments about loss of faith and redemption. Can you tell I didn't like it all that much?

Anyway, I'm looking forward to more games that touch that topic.

 

[Auberon]

KOTOR 2 called, replace "Force" with "God" and "Jedi"/"Sith" with (presumably Christian) institutions of your choice.

 

[Ryotknife]

ehhhh. Doing a game that explores religion is....hard without it coming off as propaganda. Especially if you are concentrating on one religion. You can use Christianity as a vessel to explore the concept of faith, but anything more than that and you start getting into sketchy territory.

Most games with religion paint it in a bad light. unfortunately there is a practical reason for that. The "bad" aspects of religion make for some interesting story telling mechanics. the "good" aspects of religion? Not so much, especially since nearly all games revolve around conflict. For example, would you rather play a game where the villain becomes religious and becomes inspired to build a flying city with technology and power ripped from other dimensions so he can cleanse the heathens or a game where the protagonist becomes religious and opens an orphanage?

Final Fantasy 10 was perhaps the best game in terms of exploring faith that ive personally played. Trying to use religion in any other way than religious zealots can be difficult as it would be easy for the game to become kinda exclusionary.

 

[dyre]

The only problem really is the gameplay...clearly the gameplay could not actually be related to the day to day life of being a missionary, because that's really boring. Maybe you could be some kind of missionary archaeologist going throw ancient Chinese tombs or something, I dunno.

I think that's the biggest problem with games trying to tackle meaningful stuff in general: unless your story's themes can centre on jumping/shooting as the protagonist's core activity, it just won't gel properly.

Yeah, pretty much. One could perhaps use minigames to somehow simulate missionary work but even the best minigames only go so far.

 

[KazeAizen]

I'm not against a game that plays with religion or has religiously allegorical themes, but a plot based on conversion seems like it would be incredibly challenging to not be uncomfortably preachy (especially if it were, as you suggest) a set plot with an end point of one specific real world religion. I think a character going through a crisis of faith can be interesting, but for the point of the game itself to be resolving it with that conversion moment strikes me as creepy. As to it specifically being Christian/Catholic, I think the tone of that would vary a lot depending on your country/culture and what the majority religion/sect is and the position of religion in your culture - the political symbolism isn't neutral depending on where you are/who you are, y'know?

I don't think allowing a user to pick from multiple faith traditions would be any better though - someone might be able to do a good job of it, but it would be much to easy for that to be a gross oversimplification of all the religions involved.

I never imagined making such a game would be a walk in the park. It also wouldn't necessarily have just the one fixed point entry. In my head and the only way I can conceive it would be like the moral choice system. Again moral choice systems rarely are good but no one has ever applied that same system to finding/losing faith which is what I would want the thrust of the game. How the gameplay would actually work etc. I hadn't thought out. As people are pointing out here there seem to be a few games that touch on religion but again none in quite the in depth way that I'm thinking of. Who says the game ends with conversion? Going through a crisis of faith and ultimately losing it I think would be very interesting and for me kind of sad but that's just me. One of the reasons I brought this up is because of the extra credits religion episodes, me being an aspiring game designer, and having just gone through a crisis of faith. I chose to narrow it down to Roman Catholicism because its the one I know best, its huge, and yeah like you said choosing from multiple would just be a bad idea because of oversimplification.

 

[KazeAizen]

more specifically Christianity and even more specific Roman Catholicism

Well that kinda narrows it down, doesn't it.

I'd judge it by its merits, though I'll be one of the first to burn it to the ground if it doesn't perform. But I wouldn't be against its existence - the possibility of exploring such a mature subject matter in a video game is very interesting.

After all, there have been religious characters that have stood on their own. Not sure if you can make religion the central point of the game without making it sound like mindless propaganda, but it's worth a try.

Heh heh. What's a better idea? Going into great detail about a journey into, out of, and through one religion or trying to do the same with multiple? Personally I think over simplifying such topics like religion in video games is even worse than focusing on just one and doing a poor job of it? Does that make any sense? Glad to at least see that you are open to its existence. I still haven't played spec ops. The Line but it seems to be the only fps that deals with the horrors of war, and the moral grays of military action. From what I've heard. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think a game doing the same for religion is needed. As much as I love Bayonetta I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel just a tinge mad that angels and God are represented as bad guys.

 

[The Apple BOOM]

The hardest part about this whole topic is that if you were to shine faith in an either positive or negative life, you've already lost a huge amount of people. Looking inside yourself is scary, as SMBC put it, and that is the hardest things for people to be open to change about. Was I wrong in thinking that unfalsifiable hypotheses from sketch origins were ridiculous? Was I wrong in thinking that life without a higher power is hollow and pointless? Those are the two big questions people are going to be asking themselves when they realize they're being confronted with the topic of faith, and as you can tell, they're incredibly loaded towards the person's original leaning.

Even then, most games that already have these kinds of stories are so one sided in fairness. It's not that they're going in one direction, but more that they aren't giving the other direction any credibility at all. You almost always have the easy strawman of the amoral, psychotic atheist or the blind, ignorant theist. This is so bad that the crusades are mainly looked at today as the evil Catholic church pillaging the lessers for their money. Most people don't know that the initial catalyst for the 1st crusade was because radical Muslims overthrew more moderate ones, and stopped letting any non-Muslims into the holy land. Not to say that it's the other way around, though, there was a lot of corruption and greed on the Catholic side. Also, the crusades were a Catholic thing, not a Christian thing. Eastern Orthodox Christianity was a victim too, just like Islam.

They only way to get past this is to have a neutral 'decide for yourself' story, which just comes off as a complete cop out unless you do it really well.

 

[Raikas]

Who says the game ends with conversion?

Well, you did specifically say "the main character's journey through the game is either finding religion, more specifically Christianity and even more specific Roman Catholicism, or growing away from religion", so that certainly sounds like the two choices are either conversion to or falling away from that one single religion.

I agree that a crisis of faith makes for interesting material, but I'm happier seeing that played out in a more neutral format.

As people are pointing out here there seem to be a few games that touch on religion but again none in quite the in depth way that I'm thinking of.

As an aside, I thought there was some party banter in DA2 (in which characters of various religions and with varying degrees of belief sometimes commented on faith issues) had the potential to work in the type of game that you're proposing (minus the specific requirement of Catholicism) - and I think by stripping away the politics of real world religions it might be easier to get into a crisis of faith type story. Maybe.

 

[Belaam]

I think a game whose premise is a religious journey has several strikes against it already.

1) Immersion. If the protagonist is either questioning religion in a way the player has not, or comes to wildly different conclusions, immersion is going to suffer greatly. I don't think religious experiences are universal enough for immersion to not a be a problem.

2) Self-Limiting. Statistically, no matter what a person's religious views are, the majority thinks they are wrong. Additionally, while I have been unable to find a study on religious views of gamers (if any of you have one, please PM or link me to it), my suspicion is that gamers are more likely to be irreligious than the rest of the population. Largely due to only ever seeing protests against games from religious groups... oh, and PETA. The number of successful games that do address religion do so by presenting it as a social tool to bring people together regardless of the religion's validity (Civilization games) or as to tool to actively manipulate the ignorant (Bioshock Infinate, Assassin's Creed).

3) No good models. Religious movies tend towards either treacly pap or exceedingly dark. A religious horror game could probably do well... and in fact, I'd be shocked if there aren't some out there, but stories of personal religious growth, like the OP seems to be going for, tend to be ridiculously saccharin. You also have the problem of no engaging bad guys. Self-doubt or selfishness are hard to present well. And the devil is a terrible foe. Either you have to alter religion as to make the result of a God/Devil fight in question, or you have to give the Devil some reason for starting a fight he has to know he's going to lose... and that way turns gives him noble qualities of going out fighting for a losing cause he believes in strongly enough to be destroyed for. Which is not what you want in a religous game/film.

4) For the reasons above and others, no profit in it. Of the 20 highest grossing religious films (http://www.pajiba.com/box_office_round-ups/the-20-most-successful-christianthemed-films-of-all-time.php), three of the top five are Narnia films... so it seems like the model to make money as Christian entertainment is to cover your religion in allegory. I suspect the same is true of games. Christian messages can do okay, but only if you hide them.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

I always pondered a game a cross between GTA(world setup and interaction) and Zelda(mechanics) only there is no killing and its set in the early days of Christianity going through a world that's loosely based on the bible. I know its oxymoronic but still was an interesting idea.

 

[Vale]

There is a game about religion.
Borderlands.
The most structured, involved, and deliberately/subconsciously propagated religious practice of DRINK THE BLOOD EAT THE LOOT BREATHE THE NUMBERS I have ever witnessed in any media.
Playing as Mr. GRIND GRIND GRIND KILL KILL KILL only makes it more appropriate.
It even has self-immolation!
What's not to love!

 

[Leonardo Huizar]

I dont think taking spiritual advice from a video game is anyway to find inner peace

I would also like that one day they made a game about Solomon and the 72 demons who he single handily conquered and tamed ... [Castlevania: Both 'Soma' games did this actually]

Maybe Dynasty Warriors style where Solomon is like Nobunaga and leads a campaign through different hellscapes killing monsters and taking their hell kings in chains to serve in his slave army in order to take over the ancient world

 

[CloudAtlas]

I'm not saying that it can't be done, but, as many others in this thread already stated before me, the story the OP seems to have in mind, about finding faith one particular branch of one particular religion, would only be appealing to a fraction of its potential audience - certainly not to me.

I do not really see the benefit in this endeavour either. If you aim to tell a really profound story, your story will tell you some deeper truth about the human condition - about themes that are independent of religion, that transcend religion.

 

[Vigormortis]

Let's make games about the reality of religion. I want a game where i play a paedophile priest whose entire organisation hides my crimes from the world and actively allows me to continue on my world tour of destroying other peoples lives...all in the name of god. Or one where you persecute people for their sexual preferences until they kill themselves but then pretend that god is the answer, the forgiveness, the love.

Don't forget to add a segment in the game where you have to teach the uneducated masses that condoms cause the spread of AIDS. And another segment where one must learn to accept the idea that a "loving God" is a god that approves of and advocates slavery, misogyny, murder, genocide, and rape. Oh, and another that involves a blood sacrifice; seeing as Yahweh loves the smell of blood.

 

[mhb77]

For this to work you would have to really carefully select the kind of game you want to make. For example, I think a game in which the player is supposed to be role-playing wouldn't really work. For the game to truly work the player would have to become deeply immersed in the main-characters perspective, which is really hard. Particularly when you are dealing with something like religion. Players would probably wind up trying to role-play themselves, but because the conversion/deconversion process is so personal there would be no way to represent all the possibilities people would want.

One way to get around this is to make the game not be primarily about religion. By having another focal point you can get people to explore their perspective on religion by working through problems that are related to, but not exclusively about, religion. The idea for a game about missionaries in China is a good example of this (I would love for that game to get made). In general games about religious people trying to figure out how to conduct themselves during turbulent times have the potential to be very interesting.

You can also go the allegorical route, which can get the player thinking about religious issues while keeping their preconceptions at bay. The obvious downside is that for this to work the player needs to not realize that the game is about religion (at least at first) so that kinda undermines the idea of making a game about religion.


But all this is getting away from your original idea. I think the best way to do what I think you want to do is to limit the scope of the game. There are a bunch of games out there that are about trying to get the player to step into someone else's life. The idea is to present the world as someone else perceives it so the player can better understand their perspective. Presenting the world as someone going through a crises of faith sees it and letting the player occupy that world for a while could be a really interesting and personal game. Furthermore it sidesteps the issues of the player feeling like their point of view isn't being properly represented, because you are not trying to represent the world any more, just the world as one person sees it.

If that last idea sounds at all appealing to you it's something you are probably pretty well qualified to make. It's got the right scope for a one person project and you've had the personal experiences needed to make it work.

 

[Tuesday Night Fever]

I mean that the main character's journey through the game is either finding religion, more specifically Christianity and even more specific Roman Catholicism...

That's what killed it for me from the perspective of both a gamer and a person who doesn't identify with any particular organized religion. I think a game specifically about finding and/or losing faith would be far more interesting if a variety of religions were represented as options to the player, rather than forcibly indoctrinating them into a specific faith. It might even give some insight into faiths that the player had previously been unfamiliar with or maybe even judgmental toward, who knows? I have no idea how the overall story would play out, but I do think it's a potentially interesting concept if done respectfully toward all parties involved.

 

[europe]

I think games that try to depict religion in a historical (including fantasy history) context fail pretty misirably at it. Our modern understanding and conception of what religion is colour the games depiction of religion so thoroughly. People forget the idea's like a secular mindset and society simply didn't exist in those days as it does in ours.

For exemple, luck wasn't simply something that happened to you at random - it was divine favour passed down from the god(s). If a Christian army beat a Pagan army, nobody thought it wasn't beacuse the Christian army had better socioeconomical factors that could enable it to feild more men and equip them better. They thought it was beacuse the Christian God was more powerful than the Pagan gods, and therefore could grant more fortune, simple as that. Religion was wordly and concret - not abstract, introverted and philosophical.

Similarly with the phenonemon of Orthopraxy vs Orthodoxy, pretty much every religion that I've seen in games talk more about "faith" rather than "ritual praxis" - even the polytheistic one's - when they discuss what is central to that religion. Which is certainly odd when you consider how most religions and forms of religiosity has function throughout history. People back then didn't think Zeus would like you if you bealived really, really hard in his existence and prayed to him - they bealived he would like you if you slaughtered some big fucking cows at his feast during a ritual and performed all the parts of the ritual correctly.

The best example of a religion in a game is most likely that in Ultima 4 though (which is pretty funny when you consider how old it is). Simply beacuse you see it's creation and given context to why is tenants are so important and central.

EDIT: The Dominons series also has some highly intresting religious systems, now that I think of it.

 

[KazeAizen]

I mean that the main character's journey through the game is either finding religion, more specifically Christianity and even more specific Roman Catholicism...

That's what killed it for me from the perspective of both a gamer and a person who doesn't identify with any particular organized religion. I think a game specifically about finding and/or losing faith would be far more interesting if a variety of religions were represented as options to the player, rather than forcibly indoctrinating them into a specific faith. It might even give some insight into faiths that the player had previously been unfamiliar with or maybe even judgmental toward, who knows? I have no idea how the overall story would play out, but I do think it's a potentially interesting concept if done respectfully toward all parties involved.

I was thinking in a narrow scope mostly for the purposes of the "walk before run." type deal. I can envision a game focusing on one religion even if the system used is a modified moral choice system though that would be a bad way to do it. The fact that no game to my memory has tackled real world religion or religious journeys the way I'm thinking. Sometimes we must walk before we run. Making a game that respects one and doing it well I think would be the first step into making more games that focus on more than one. Doing one respectfully is better than over simplifying many.

 

[SinisterGehe]

I think it would be extremely interesting character study, but I don't think it would drive the game's plot by itself. Not even as pilgrimage type plot line.
Religion can not function as a plot by itself, it can work as a character study and trait. But the sad thing is that when we speak of religion of any kind, it is based on subject's faith, when it becomes fact and reality - that god(s)/goddess(es) exist, it is matter of fact not faith.
Religion is REALLY tricky subject to write about, but it is extremely helpful when designing worlds and civilizations.