A historical riddle.

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DisasterSoiree

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There was a certain eminent lawyer living in a large city. He had no immediate family, no children or wife, but a number of siblings, one of whom had won a modicum of fame as a lyrical composer. His mother had gone into a madhouse when he was young, and this seemed to hang heavy around the attorney's head, but despite his family history - or perhaps because of it - he seemed unusually compelled to make himself successful in the world.

This lawyer was young and successful, but his case load was uneven; he supplemented his income by serving as a master at a boy's prep school seasonally, living on the campus and teaching mathematics as well as sports. He'd always been a sportsman, this young solicitor, excelling especially in cricket and football while attending university. He pursued this interest even after graduation and rarely, if ever, missed a cricket meet.

From the outside this attorney was the very model of success. He won many more cases than he lost, and soon developed a reputation as an earnest, dependable attorney who fought to the hilt for his clients. He was considered quite attractive, too, almost dapper, though perhaps rather more effete than his extracurricular career as a sportsman would suggest. It was thought curious that the man remained single after achieving such worldly success, but it could be written off as the price of a life engaged in society.

So it went for seven years for this lawyer of bright promise. Once he was even invited to a party to be hosted by one of the highest in the land, though by the time it came around he was very much dead.

For this barrister and teacher went missing one day. Nobody had reason to suspect much at first - his belongings hadn't been removed or tampered with in his room at the school. nor had his family heard from him for a month, though this wasn't considered unusual as the school year was coming to a close and they could expect him to be busy with finals.

But had they been in contact with him, a very different picture would have emerged. He'd been released from his duties by the headmaster near to the time he went missing. The headmaster refused to divulge the particulars surrounding his canning, save that it later emerged in the inquest that the reason had been "serious". Suggestions of sexual impropriety with the boys seem untenable, however, as no parent came forward to press charges, and no potential victim ever spoke against the lawyer.

All that existed otherwise to induce the slightest suspicion against the lawyer was a letter stowed among his things, in which he expressed a dread of ending up "like mother", and that he thought it better if he were to die. The letter was, however, much too oblique to be taken at face-value as a suicide note; and it was peculiarly addressed to the school's headmaster and not any relative. Even more singularly, the barrister was buried on consecrated ground, quite in contravention of the general rules of his religion regarding suicides.

Which he did. A month later his bloated body was pulled from a nearby river. It had been weighted down with large stones - four in each pocket. The only other objects of note on the corpse were two cheques, one of which had been made out to the barrister for an amount very nearly approaching his yearly salary at the school.

This is all that had been definitely ascertained about the man. There has been plenty of speculation, but it remains precisely that - speculation.

So why, and how, did he die?
 

DisasterSoiree

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AccursedTheory said:
Neuro-Syphilis. Classy guys from olden times always died of Neuro-Syphilis.
Neurosyphilis can't deposit a body in a river with rocks in its pockets, to my understanding.
 

DefunctTheory

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DisasterSoiree said:
AccursedTheory said:
Neuro-Syphilis. Classy guys from olden times always died of Neuro-Syphilis.
Neurosyphilis can't deposit a body in a river with rocks in its pockets, to my understanding.


You keep thinking like that, and Syphilis is going to get you next time you try to cross a bridge.
 

Spacewolf

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Neuro-Syphilis does cause madness so maybe he went mad.

Personally I'll go for a gambling addiction, his mother was sent to the mad house not because she was actually mad but because her family wanted her to stop spending their money. He was suspended from his job because of the scandal that would follow if his large debts where revealed and was killed because he was suspected of cheating during the last game he had played so was killed and dumped in a river.
 

Keoul

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Colonel Mustard in the Living Room with a Table Cloth.

I'm thinking suicide due to bi-polar disorder or something.

WHY: He wasn't necessarily a bad teacher however he had uncontrollable mood swings, an incident may have occurred in a classroom, probably not physical violence against a child but I'm thinking mental breakdown, some sobbing and maybe a few desk throws. Because of this he had his contract with the school terminated, the cheque being his severance package.

HOW: Suicide, perhaps he was a fan of Virginia Woolf? You said that he was buried in consecrated land which isn't allowed for people who committed suicide. There may have been enough circumstantial evidence to support murder so he was buried on consecrated land.
Given how you haven't given us an autopsy report or anything and I can't really imagine how you could convince a man to place stones into his pocket and jump into a river, I think murder is unlikely.

Alternatively

HOW: Murder, not entirely sure who it is and for what motive. But the fact that he had cheques in his pockets is suspicious. He might have been on his way to cash the checks or to add suspicion to the Head Master. I don't really have enough evidence to come to a definite decision yet.

So basically I'm too stupid to figure this out, it's totally Colonel Mustard in the living room with a table cloth.
 

Drathnoxis

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The party he was invited to was in heaven (hosted by the highest in the land) and he had himself killed to attend. The headmaster killed him so that the lawyer would still be able to get to heaven and then made it look like suicide.

OR

The story was actually about two lawyers, thus was how he could have been buried in consecrated ground and then pulled from the river a month later.
 

gunny1993

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"He had no immediate family" - "but a number of siblings" ... Siblings aren't immediate family now?

"This lawyer was young and successful, but his case load was uneven" ..... because there's seasons for lawyers apparently

Also he is refereed to as "solicitor, attorney and lawyer and barrister" .... fairly sure those are different things, and country specific at that (although i have no real idea on that one)


"the barrister was buried on consecrated ground" "For this barrister and teacher went missing one day" ... obviously contradictory

ALl in all the report framed here is either incredibly incompetent or deliberately vague, the poor grammar, notably in "Which he did.", makes it likely this is deliberate.

So, since this is all conjecture i'm going to go for: this is two people, one of which began suffering from a genetic condition of the mind, such as familial Alzheimers, and committed suicide.

... or it's one person and someone dug up the body.
 

Nuuu

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The lawyer wasn't a very bright man and picked up a bunch of loadstones. Then he rolled a 1 on the dice when trying to shake someones hand in greeting on a bridge, causing him to slip off. The lawyer then didn't roll high enough to escape the river due to all the loadstones stuck in his pockets.

He was never invited to another game of Lawyers and Law Rooms again.
 

drummond13

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Not really sure how this is a riddle. Seems like with the information provided there's any number of things that could have happened.

Are we going to get an official answer from the OP?
 

know whan purr tick

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drummond13 said:
Not really sure how this is a riddle. Seems like with the information provided there's any number of things that could have happened.

Are we going to get an official answer from the OP?
It does have an unsolved mysteries flavor to it. I searched keywords and found a few interesting things in similar strange occurances but not an exact answer.

I was thinking about the "four large stones in each pocket." How big is a large stone, at least as big as a fist? One would need some deep pockets to carry around that volume, and how many pockets are we talking; pants, jacket, shirt, etc?

The teaching math thing made me think about calculus [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculus_%28medicine%29], kidney stones. I suppose they could have "weighed him down" in more of a health-sense than gravitational. Guy started passing kidney stones and was putting them in his pockets to show a doctor later to find out what was wrong and the pain caused him to finally pass out and drown because he was using the cool water to numb the pain but ended up exasterbating the process of passing the stones.

Groping for stone definitions; could be like peach pits (what kind of pocket then[?] and how did they weight the body down[?]), gamepiece (maybe term for cricket "ball[?]"), or used in printing (he got caught at school plagerizing something[?]).

"[sibling] had won a modicum of fame as a lyrical composer." I'm not sure if this is a red herring or part of the solution.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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He died by drowning, is the how.

The why is because he was in the river with a bunch of stones in his pockets weighing him down.

(Yes, I go for the most bluntly obvious answers first.)
 

Batou667

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He was blackmailing the headmaster?

Man, there must be more to it. What was the second cheque? Was he killed to prevent him cashing it?
 

Bara_no_Hime

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This is a riddle, so I'm guessing it's some sort of metaphor.

Rather than being about a lawyer who is also a school teacher with siblings (one of whom is known for lyrics), I'm guessing this riddle refers to something entirely different.

... I have no idea what, but I'm pretty sure that treating any of this at face value is the wrong way to go about it.
 

DisasterSoiree

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This was, actually, a historical occurrence.

The lawyer was in actuality Montague John Druitt [http://www.casebook.org/suspects/druitt.html], who for a very long time has been one of the chief historical suspects for the Jack The Ripper murders, first named - in an oblique, labyrinthine way, as with everything else in this case - by Assistant Commissioner Melville Macnaghten in an internal report from 1894.

Druitt appears to have committed suicide sometime in late November or early December of 1888. The Machnaghten Memoranda [http://www.casebook.org/official_documents/memo.html] has long been a source of contention, but it reads in part:

A Mr M. J. Druitt, said to be a doctor & of good family -- who disappeared at the time of the Miller's Court murder, & whose body (which was said to have been upwards of a month in the water) was found in the Thames on 31st December -- or about 7 weeks after that murder. He was sexually insane and from private information I have little doubt but that his own family believed him to have been the murderer.
Of course, there are a number of things wrong with this account - Druitt was not a doctor, but a lawyer and a teacher, although his father had been a doctor; and later research has revealed that the source of the information about Druitt was probably not his immediate family but a Tory MP for Dorset named Henry Farquharson [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Richard_Farquharson]. Druitt's family would have been Conservative constituents of Farquharson's in Dorset, and it is thought that the knowledge of the family's 'suspicions' were passed through a sort-of good ol' boy network then in existence.

'The member of Parliament who recently declared that 'Jack the Ripper' had killed himself on the evening of the last murder, adheres to his opinion. Even assuming that the man Saddler [sic] is able to prove his innocence of the murder of Frances Coles, he maintains that the latest crime cannot be the work of the author of the previous series of atrocities, and this view of the matter is steadily growing among those who do not see that there is any good reason to suppose that 'Jack the Ripper' is dead. So far as Saddler is concerned, there is a strong feeling that the evidence will have to be very much strengthened against him by next Tuesday, if he is to be committed for trial. His manner in the Thames Police-court was consistent with any theory.'
- The Yorkshire Herald, Feb. 18, 1891

Of course, this account, while getting the son of a doctor element right, is also incorrect: it is impossible for Druitt to have committed suicide the day after the final murder; he was in court the last week of November.

Macnaghten persisted, and a private draft version of the so-called 'Macnaghten Memoranda' found in the 1950s pressed the case for Druitt as the Ripper even more strongly while maintaining the fiction that he was a doctor - it has been suggested that Macnaghten may have deliberately fictionalized Druitt by creating the figure of a doctor in order to protect his family, or himself from a libel suit, but it's difficult to say either way.



I held this back because I do not believe Druitt was Jack The Ripper, and because I did not want to contaminate your speculation by even implying it. Accordingly I had also to keep back some other bits of information - such as the fact that a return ticket to Hammersmith [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammersmith_tube_station_(Piccadilly_and_District_lines)] for December first was also found on his person. I wanted you to consider the case without the slightest inkling about the suspicions surrounding the man, as I'm working on a very intensive Jack The Ripper project for the forum due next year; this including obscuring the exact nature of his occupation. Please forgive.
 

drummond13

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Still don't see how this was a riddle. It's impossible to reach the "solution" with the information provided. Feels more like an odd anecdote.
 

DisasterSoiree

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drummond13 said:
Still don't see how this was a riddle. It's impossible to reach the "solution" with the information provided. Feels more like an odd anecdote.
Well, 'riddle' was possibly the wrong word for it, but it doesn't seem substantial enough to quite be a mystery, either. And yeah, I no more know the solution than any of you, but I think the ideas I got were better without anyone knowing who I was talking about than I would have gotten had I broadcast Druitt as a Ripper suspect and so instilled the idea that the suicide must have somehow been connected with that.
 

Drathnoxis

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DisasterSoiree said:
This was, actually, a historical occurrence.

The lawyer was in actuality Montague John Druitt [http://www.casebook.org/suspects/druitt.html], who for a very long time has been one of the chief historical suspects for the Jack The Ripper murders, first named - in an oblique, labyrinthine way, as with everything else in this case - by Assistant Commissioner Melville Macnaghten in an internal report from 1894.
What. -_-
This isn't a riddle at all. This is an unsolved mystery, plain and simple. Let me give you an example of a riddle.

A man leaps off of the roof of an eleven story building. He takes a running start and when he leaves the roof, he is traveling at 3.2m/s.
How long does it take him to reach the ground?
Answer:The rest of his life

What is the beginning of the end, the end of every place, the beginning of eternity, and the end of time and space?
Answer:The letter 'e'

Riddles usually involve wordplay, and always, ALWAYS, have a correct answer.

How you hope to use any of these responses to prove Druitt's innocence I can't say. Everybody answered under the false pretense that this was a riddle, and thus had a correct answer that involved an alternate interpretation of the words. And if that wasn't bad enough, you have skewed the facts so that nobody would ever even come to the conclusion that this lawyer was ever suspected of murder. There is no possible way that anybody could read the "riddle" you wrote and conclude "Oh, of course, this guy killed himself because he was Jack the Ripper(or any sort of murderer really)"

Not to mention it was badly written. All of the contradictions, confused structure give the impression that it actually is a riddle, but as you've revealed that it isn't a riddle that just makes the whole thing more misleading.
 

DisasterSoiree

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Drathnoxis said:
Everybody answered under the false pretense that this was a riddle, and thus had a correct answer that involved an alternate interpretation of the words. And if that wasn't bad enough, you have skewed the facts so that nobody would ever even come to the conclusion that this lawyer was ever suspected of murder. There is no possible way that anybody could read the "riddle" you wrote and conclude "Oh, of course, this guy killed himself because he was Jack the Ripper(or any sort of murderer really)"

Not to mention it was badly written. All of the contradictions, confused structure give the impression that it actually is a riddle, but as you've revealed that it isn't a riddle that just makes the whole thing more misleading.
That was the point.

Had I said "this guy was suspected of being Jack The Ripper", I'd have gotten one reply: "HE KILLED HIMSELF 'CAUSE HE WAS JACK THE RIPPER LOL". Obscuring certain details gave me a different perspective to look at the case.

For instance: Druitt's brother William really was a lyricist, and apparently a quite successful one. It's not implausible that Montague might have gotten himself involved with the sort of high life surrounding that, racking up debt, be it gambling or otherwise. That's one possible approach I'd not considered before, and likely wouldn't have without this thread.

It isn't a question of 'proving' one thing or another. It's a matter of finding alternatives which are more plausible than Macnaghten. Which leaves me in the lurch, because I wasn't alive at the time.