A hypethetical scenerio concerning discrimination, morality in video games

[F4LL3N]

DISCLAIMER: This is all hypethetical. If you're easily offended, perhaps go no further. I give my opinion half way through the thread, and this in particular could offend people. Although I don't think I'm breaking any rules.

Let's say hypethetically there was a really popular MMORPG and in the character creation process you could choose to be pretty much anything. Human (White, Black, Asian, etc), Elve, Orc, Goblin, etc. You could be straight, gay, bi, Christian, Muslim, fictional in-game religions, etc, etc.

How would you feel if, let's say, someone decided to role-play a serial killer. And for example they only targeted blacks. Or let's say there was a 'gay bar' in one of the towns, and a sort-of linch mob decided to attack it and slaughter everyone inside it.

I'll mention two generalized guidelines, but you can give your opinion on whatever.
1. On one hand, you could argue that it's racist/discrimination, and it's also 'griefing' in a video game point of view.
2. On the other hand, let's hypethetically say NOBODY playing the game is actually racist/homophobic, etc. It's strictly role-playing. Maybe the year is 2050 and everything's not so politically correct.

Now let's say it's the same scenerio, except it was Elves targeting humans, or humans targeting Orcs.

Is it the same thing even if one group is purely fictional?
Is the first scenerio wrong, even if it's only a video game? Even if there's no hate involved? Even if it's just role-playing for the fun of it.

I'm not racist, homophobic, or any of the sort. I hate and love everyone equally; more hate than love. But, in my opinion, it's a video game and I think it would be a very fun thing to do. The role-playing and atmosphere of the game would surpass everything offered today in terms of emotional attachment, story-telling, characterization... pretty much everything an RPG/video game should offer and more.

With that in mind, I'd even opt in to a server-wide extermination of a particular group. Not because I'm a white male IRL with some deep down urge to exterminate a group/minority. Simply because in my opinion, it's just a video game. And again, the emotional attachment involved would be unlike anything else.

Does that make me racist/homophobic, etc? Even if I don't notice it myself, or believe I am?
Is my point of view extremely immoral?
Is it inconsiderate of our history as human beings, and all the sh*t we've put each other through?

I consider myself highly pro-human rights/equality and one of my life goals is to either join the army and help people in war-torn countries have the same rights and opportunities as us, or go to Africa and help give children over there a better life. I guess it depends more on how you view video games, as opposed to how you view dicrimination/crimes against humanity - or atleast in my case.

 

[Javarock]

Personaly, The only type of racism I like in my fantasy realms are between races but not skin color IE Dwarfs hate elfs... Ect...

 

[MasterOfWorlds]

It's hard to say because there's not an actual crime being commited. Sure, the person doing such things is an asshole, but that's not a crime in and of itself.

It's an interesting question, and one that we might do well to consider, but I don't think that something like that would be a problem on any large scale unless the Klan decided to up and join WoW or something.

As for the politcal correctness, yes, it's a pain, however, treating people like shit just because they fall under a category that you're not/have issues with is wrong. I wouldn't want people to treat me differently just because I'm white, just like I don't think that anyone else should be treated any differently based on their race, gender, sexual preference, religion or lack thereof, and anything else I might be missing here.

 

[Seives-Sliver]

Well, in a strictly role-playing scenario I would find who is at fault, if it's just a random attack for the sake of being an ass, then I would side with the people being attacked, but if there was something sinister going on, then I would help those attacking. Needless to say, I am not racially biased, I am as likely to help a black man, white man, orc, goblin, ect. as I am to help anyone else, as long as they aren't evil and whatnot it's all good.

 

[Chicago Ted]

Uh... Why not boil it down to, "Is discrimination, when applied to a roleplay, acceptable?" rather then make up some overcomplicated idea that really just makes the basic point you're trying to get across so much more murky.

To get to the point of that though, yes, discrimination, when applied to a roleplay, is acceptable. At a LARP for Vampire the Masquerade that I go to, there are a few people with the flaw 'Fear of Crosses'. As a result of that, they have tried a number of things that have tried to minimalize the presence of Christianity in the city. On the other, some are religios zealots, attempting to spread their beliefs as much as possible. There have been a number of occassions when clashes have risen because of these conflicting views.

But, all of that said, this is only stuff that happens on a character to character level. Not a single person really harbors what they play out. So no, there is nothing wrong with discrimination amongst characters, as long as it stays between characters.

 

[Psycho Cat Industries]

There's nothing wrong with it.Besides,sexual preference and religion would probably fit better as not being an option solely for the fact that the action is what dictates it unlike your character being born into the world.
Honestly,PC stuff just kind of strikes me as stupid as it doesn't change anything and denies almost everything.It doesn't matter if it is orc vs. human or stereotype vs. stereotype or Nascar vs. Daytona 500 (lol,Escapist don't know what Nascar is).All that matters is what the causes and effects are and personally,seeing as it is in a game where racial slurs flow like wind storms,it really does not matter.

 

[F4LL3N]

Okay, fair enough.

I just thought of another question to ponder.

Most people have experienced hate/discrimination at some point in their life. But most of us alive today don't actually know what it feels like to be a Jew being marched off to the gas chambers, or a black slave in Colonial Britain.

Could something like this offer a learning experience for those of us alive today? To actually be a minority in a scenerio like this and feel first-hand what extreme discrimination is like.

EDIT: Btw, I wasn't really referring to Horde vs Alliance discrimination where it's practically meaningless. I mean a game where you're very invested into your character, the game world, and the players around you. Something that's emotionally deep in-game, but meaningless out of it. And it wouldn't be some meaningless event that happens out of the blue. It would be a cause and effect situation, where you would genuinely feel emotions.

There was a thread a few weeks ago about Minecraft. And the person observed the way some people react as if it were real life survival. That somewhat inspired this. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

For your first question, I think it would be interesting to do to see how people act without rl consequences similar to the 'blood plague' incident in WoW. Hopefully it wouldn't make a difference to anyone.

. But most of us alive today don't actually know what it feels like to be a Jew being marched off to the gas chambers,

I know what it feels like to visit an old concentration camp. It's pretty indescribable. I'm just pretty sure I don't want to go back there ever again but I'll never forget it. I don't think thats something you put in a game...some things should be held with more respect, I think, personally.

 

[zama174]

Yes there is a difference, when you start adding racism and hatred to groups of people who really exist, you walk a fine line of just appearing as a racially insensitive asshole at best, and a extremist at worst. These sorts of situations carry more weight then Elves hating Orcs, or Halflings being slaves, because these things have either happened, or still happen. The tap into a persons own experiences with the issue, and bring them out it a far more real and meaningful way.

Now this isn't to say this is BAD, in fact, I'd argue that there should be more of these kinds of things in video games. As you said in your second question, it would teach those of us who haven't really been exposed to the kind of hatred that has been directed towards other groups of people, and learn something about humanity, history, and perhaps even ourselves. The game would be dark, horrible, and something we shouldn't even touch. And that is why it would be a golden relic to hold up high, a game that would move the medium forward by showing these kinds of things like they have never been shown before.

 

[zama174]

Snip

Do you mind if I ask why that shouldn't be in a video game? Film and literature have been there, so why can't video games? I don't want to go overly preachy on you about how video games should be regarded as intellectual equals of Film and Literature, and other forms of art, but they should. As I stated in my last post, such a game could be deeply moving and compelling, bringing out dark and raw emotions and teaching the player about himself and the people that went threw that sort of treatment by putting him threw it. It would be a powerful and compelling piece, the kind we want to throw away and ban, yet we hold onto because of what it teaches us. It wouldn't be making light of it, just like a good war movie doesn't make light of the war it is about. Its a way of education a populace, and exposing them to things they would of otherwise had not experience with.

 

[F4LL3N]

Snip

Do you mind if I ask why that shouldn't be in a video game? Film and literature have been there, so why can't video games? I don't want to go overly preachy on you about how video games should be regarded as intellectual equals of Film and Literature, and other forms of art, but they should. As I stated in my last post, such a game could be deeply moving and compelling, bringing out dark and raw emotions and teaching the player about himself and the people that went threw that sort of treatment by putting him threw it. It would be a powerful and compelling piece, the kind we want to throw away and ban, yet we hold onto because of what it teaches us. It wouldn't be making light of it, just like a good war movie doesn't make light of the war it is about. Its a way of education a populace, and exposing them to things they would of otherwise had not experience with.

That's deffo what I'm getting at. Thanks.

Btw, here's that post I was talking about regarding Minecraft. I only read the OP, but I found the observations interesting.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.291051-The-uniqueness-of-Minecraft-and-player-behaviour

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Snip

Do you mind if I ask why that shouldn't be in a video game? Film and literature have been there, so why can't video games? I don't want to go overly preachy on you about how video games should be regarded as intellectual equals of Film and Literature, and other forms of art, but they should. As I stated in my last post, such a game could be deeply moving and compelling, bringing out dark and raw emotions and teaching the player about himself and the people that went threw that sort of treatment by putting him threw it. It would be a powerful and compelling piece, the kind we want to throw away and ban, yet we hold onto because of what it teaches us. It wouldn't be making light of it, just like a good war movie doesn't make light of the war it is about. Its a way of education a populace, and exposing them to things they would of otherwise had not experience with.

Personally I just dont think it would be appropriate as a 'game' Because of the incredibly tragic and abhorrent nature of the events. Maybe if it was done in a very careful and respectful manner it would be okay.

Perhaps this is something that the Extra Credits team could look at, can games touch upon the same things that films can or is there a line that should be drawn in interactive entertainment.

 

[Nieroshai]

Simply put, it'd just be the same as guild rivaalry or horde vs alliance. Anyone can be any race, gender or sexuality. Just for KICKS I'd make a buff white bald guy named MrClean and make him gay. Those things don't matter as much to us in the game world as they do in real life.

 

[theonewhois3]

Snip

Do you mind if I ask why that shouldn't be in a video game? Film and literature have been there, so why can't video games? I don't want to go overly preachy on you about how video games should be regarded as intellectual equals of Film and Literature, and other forms of art, but they should. As I stated in my last post, such a game could be deeply moving and compelling, bringing out dark and raw emotions and teaching the player about himself and the people that went threw that sort of treatment by putting him threw it. It would be a powerful and compelling piece, the kind we want to throw away and ban, yet we hold onto because of what it teaches us. It wouldn't be making light of it, just like a good war movie doesn't make light of the war it is about. Its a way of education a populace, and exposing them to things they would of otherwise had not experience with.

Personally I just dont think it would be appropriate as a 'game' Because of the incredibly tragic and abhorrent nature of the events. Maybe if it was done in a very careful and respectful manner it would be okay.

Perhaps this is something that the Extra Credits team could look at, can games touch upon the same things that films can or is there a line that should be drawn in interactive entertainment.

It should be done because it was a tragic and horrible experience. The idea behind a game like that would be to create empathy about the event for people playing the game they can better understand important issues like racial hatred and genocide.

I would like a game that deals with the depersonalization most games have when it comes to violence and, somewhat, our culture's celebration of it.