"A job is a job", "Why don't you get a REAL job" - Why are these statements confusing?

[Parasondox]

Good evening Escapist

Now many of us here have had to deal with either of these two statements noted in the title. You'd mostly hear the, "A job is a job" quote when you have a current job at that moment but feel that you are under valued and not appreciated at your place of work. You just want something new that makes things more enjoyable but you may struggle to get to the next step in the working world. You would mostly hear the quote "Why don't you get a REAL job", either when you are doing something part time and others don't see your work as something worthwhile or something you love doing that makes you happy but others in society think it's not proper work.

In over many months and even years I have heard and seen several commentators go on about those who create content for YouTube and how what they are doing "Isn't a real job", and not fully understanding how hard they work and the many difficulties they go through to create a short video or an independent short film. Some get money back through advertising and others do it without getting anything back but enjoy the art of it. A friend last year said to me that a job like cleaning doesn't bring anything useful to the world and can't really change anything for anyone and it's not a real job. I had to strongly disagree with them and tell them otherwise. It's hard work I know. It's messy, dirty and at the end of the day/week your feet and back will be in pain. I've done it before in my late teen days to earn some extra money, but think about it if we didn't have cleaners, whether they are office cleaners, street cleaners or those who work in important sectors like schools and hospitals, we would have a major hygiene problem where more people will get sick, more germs will develop and untidy place could create low morale and dangerous a working environment. And as I already mentioned those same working environments are schools and colleges, hospitals and academic buildings. I am not saying cleaning is the main reason why we have the best minds. I am merely saying every job we do have a part in helping the world move forward whether it's big or small. Fast food workers, retail workers, catering, door to door charity works and salesperson. Binmen, office assistant, labourer etc.

SIDE NOTE: Okay this is also linked to the YouTube copyright situation where small YouTubers are getting their video's flagged for copyright and breaching some sort of T&C. When the video is flagged, the person makes no money but the company gets 100% of the royalties. Some YouTubers are just starting out and barely using clips that they thought would infringe a copyright like a trailer clip, or a pic of the games or movies box art or poster. Now let me make this clear, I know copyright laws are there for a reason and to stop people pirating content and saying it's there own (looking at you Shia LaBeouf). It's wrong and people shouldn't be doing it but I am talking about those who create there own content but get flagged for a 5 second clip they thought wouldn't be a problem. Several who say this played Dick Advocaat(sorry it's my play on word for Devil's Advocate. People in Europe will know who he is), and pretty much said "Well why don't they just get a real job instead of staying at home and playing with their computers doing nothing?". I beg your pardon but no matter how great or crappy a video/content is, the people behind making it don't do "nothing". Long hours or editing, sound mixing, creative planning and process are needed and those roles aren't "nothing".

Now let's get back to the main point here, may I ask anyone out there and even have a simple discussion about why some jobs just aren't valued as much as others. Why do some jobs that people do, get the "Why don't you get a real job" statement from others? Is it just those high up on the working ladder looking down on others and forgetting that they themselves had to start from the button to get where they are today or just something else at play here? Ego and money maybe?

Please let me know what you think and if I missed out anything I will add it into the original post. Thank you for reading and I hope I had made what I set out to say clear. Thank you again.

 

[Albino Boo]

I value the people that do the unpleasant jobs. The cleaners, the sewer workers and the binmen. However, the people who I cannot stand are the people who have had the entire education subsidised by the taxpayer then decide that they are going to live in a carven and teach archery. That effectively means that the people who are doing the cleaning and picking up the bins taxes has been wasted on some who values their own happiness above the people who doing the crap boring jobs. When the country is paying £47 billion in interest a year its kind of like spitting in everyone else's faces. You have paid for my degree and healthcare now that I'm in position to start paying back, I'm going to piss off and do what makes me happy and you can all pay for me.

 

[Bellvedere]

If a person is very good at their job and enjoys it, I wouldn't judge them for a second for what they want to do.

In regards to cleaning in particular, I heard a psychologist on the radio (I can't remember who, sorry) talking about a study they did with people who worked as cleaners and life satisfaction. They started by just interviewing a group of people that worked as cleaners about life and career satisfaction, even did tests on their physical fitness. Their initial findings was low satisfaction, no fitter than an average person despite that their work involved physical labor. Then the cleaners were informed about how their work was physically demanding and was actually akin to exercise, they were made to feel good about the work they did and when they re-did the interviews tests, they found that not only were the cleaners much happier with their work, they were also much fitter as a result of treating their work like exercise.

Anyway... I would start thinking that "a person should get a real job" when I see that they are bored with their work. I know two people in situations like this. One is my housemate. She has a university degree, is very smart, and works as a waiter in small dingy cafes. She's had three jobs this year because she started to hate whatever job she's doing within about two weeks of starting there. It's clear she's bored with the work, she's not challenging herself in the roles, her employees aren't challenging her and she's put no effort into finding work that will motivate/challenge her. The second is an old college buddy. He worked in a game store while he was at uni and never left, never looked for anything else and he complains about his job constantly. I just find it really sad to see very capable people hate their work for the rest of their lives because they've resigned themselves to what's familiar. You want to see people you care for happy.

Apart from that, people see a job as prestigious rather than a persons individual performance in that role as prestigious. Potential salary will have something to do with it. There's also the fact that seeing highly skilled people that take a lot of pride in their work in jobs that don't pay highly/require high qualifications isn't incredibly common.

 

[EeveeElectro]

Gah, gosh yes. I get this all the time and it pisses me off.

People also ask, "so what are you GONNA do?" Like I've got no choice but to quit my job and work full time in a stuffy office or that I can pick and choose a job. There's plenty of things I'd like to do but I don't have the intelligence/social skills/qualifications etc to do it.

We've always got little, less important jobs to do and considering I have no discernible talent I suppose I have to fill those positions.

I suppose it's because I'm at the age where I should have just left uni, but a majority of my friends who are out of uni are worse off than me.
At least I'm earning my own money and have a stable job.

Some people just have a high opinion of themselves and think food workers/manual labour jobs are just filled with vermin who deserve no respect.
I've actually said to a few people who have looked at me like a piece of shit when they've asked what I do something along the lines of "Well, if I didn't serve food to lazy stuck up fucks like you, you wouldn't eat at all and wouldn't be able to get lunch..."

We've all got a place in this world, we all keep it ticking. Thinking you're more important that someone else is a horrible mind-set.

 

[Yuno Gasai]

Let's be honest, we're in one of those times when getting any job is difficult. Even what some would consider to be the less desirable jobs are highly contested because so many people are unemployed and willing to work. I know that when I got the job I have currently, I was just happy that someone was willing to employ me - the fact I actually enjoy it and that the pay is good were just the icing on the cake, really.

I'm not in a position to judge anyone, regardless of the job they have, because it's not my place. What you choose to do with your life and how you choose to earn your money is entirely up to you. I'm not going to think less of you as a person if you do something I personally wouldn't like to, though I might question you about it because I'm interested in why it appeals to you.

 

[dyre]

In terms of finding a "REAL" job, I think it's not really a matter of being valuable to society; if society didn't need that job, it wouldn't exist. Of course it's pretty douchey to judge people by the type of work they do, rather than the caliber of it. But there's also probably a non-douchey (or less douchey at least) context in which that comment is made, probably by a concerned parent or friend who is pointing out that fast food or janitor work, while certainly a job, does not provide much in the way of career options. Do you really see yourself in your 40s still working that same job and raising a family on a McDonald's salary? If not, what steps are you taking to address that? It's certainly possible to raise a kid on a janitor's salary, but imo, if you are capable (not just capable in terms of your talent. Do you have time, money, etc to do so. Not everyone does, of course) of achieving more, you shouldn't settle for being a janitor.

No job deserves to be spat upon, but not all jobs are created equal. A doctor's work is worth more than a janitor's work; a much greater amount of investment (time, money, effort) goes into becoming qualified for that work, and in terms of addressing a society's needs, market conditions tell us that a doctor's work is more highly valued by society as a whole.

 

[Julius Terrell]

As a person who does Janitorial Work, I'm at a loss. I do have a stable job, but it pays shit. I love the job, because I get to meet all kinds of people and I get free food. On the other hand I can't continue to do this kind of work for the rest of my life. I know that I'm quite intelligent and I'd love to have a job that fulfilled me intellectually.

I've always wanted to get into software development. The world will always need a programmer, but the actual learning of such a job is at a loss to me. I've talked to people, but outside of going to school it just seems impossible to learn to program.

I've done janitorial work for the last 10 or so years. I've actually made good money from time to time, but I want to finally make a move that will move me up the ladder. I guess I'm just tired of seeing my intelligence go to waste.

Edit: I am VERY physically fit. I'm a fairly fast long distance runner. It makes me perfect for this type of work, but most of my co-workers over the years have always been the exact opposite.

 

[dyre]

As a person who does Janitorial Work, I'm at a loss. I do have a stable job, but it pays shit. I love the job, because I get to meet all kinds of people and I get free food. On the other hand I can't continue to do this kind of work for the rest of my life. I know that I'm quite intelligent and I'd love to have a job that fulfilled me intellectually.

I've always wanted to get into software development. The world will always need a programmer, but the actual learning of such a job is at a loss to me. I've talked to people, but outside of going to school it just seems impossible to learn to program.

I've done janitorial work for the last 10 or so years. I've actually made good money from time to time, but I want to finally make a move that will move me up the ladder. I guess I'm just tired of seeing my intelligence go to waste.

Edit: I am VERY physically fit. I'm a fairly fast long distance runner. It makes me perfect for this type of work, but most of my co-workers over the years have always been the exact opposite.

Hmm, are you sure you talked to the right people? I have a few comp-sci friends and they tell me that learning to program without college instruction is perfectly doable, at least at the amateur level (not sure what separates amateurs from pros, maybe just depth of knowledge?). Heck, one of my friends knew a good deal of C++ before going to college. There are lots of online resources and books available on the topic, and to my knowledge (which admittedly isn't much...I only know basic java and html) a great deal of the learning comes from actually writing programs, not from learning from a professor. I believe MIT has some free resources for beginner coders.

Plus, if it's financially feasible for you, night classes at community college are a possibility.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

While one may not like one's job, and one has the right to voice their dislike, one must also remember that jobs are harder to come by these days and one should be thankful for one's fortune.
And sometimes you have to work a shit job for a while to get something better, but just because your job sucks doesn't mean you shouldn't give it your best efforts anyway. A good work ethic is something you should apply no matter how much the work sucks, because it reflects on your character. Plus I've noticed a trend that people who won't work their hardest on a crappy job they don't like usually won't give their all at a good job they do like. Treat every job the same across the board and you can't be faulted in the long run, you did your best. Give a half-assed attempt and don't expect a favorable recommendation from your previous employer, even if you were scrubbing shit off the toilet stalls in Walmart.

 

[tippy2k2]

Incoming tippy2k2 rant; read at your own discretion...

The last generation has completely and utterly fucked up this generation. I'm sure you're wondering how I've come to that conclusion and it's based largely on what you're complaining about:

If you are currently between the ages of...let's say 20-30 (Sorry kids of today, I'm 27 so I'm not sure what the social pressures are on you right now so maybe you're stuck in this shit storm too). How many of you were told growing up that you should go to college so that you don't have to spend the rest of your life flipping hamburgers (since fast food is "not a real job"? I'm guessing that the vast majority of you have raised your hands.

Now we're at a point where getting ANY job is a giant pain in the ass. I have a $80,000 debt from going to college to gain a piece of paper that is worth about as much as the actual piece of paper. I am five years out of college and have just barely started gaining ground on that debt (though it'll be at least five more years before I'm clean). Now you know what I was told when I went to my college's career center when I was stuck in a shitty, soul-stealing tech support job?

And I quote: "Well at least you have a job".

...fuck off. Seriously...fuck right off college career center lady at my old school. We have been told our entire life...our entire fucking life, that we need to go to college so that we don't get stuck in bad jobs (janitorial, fast food, customer service, grunt work type jobs). Now we are up to our eyes in debt, drowning financially and completely fucking ourselves for (at least) the next ten years of our life and now WE'RE the lazy people when we say "A job is a job is bullshit"? You've spent our entire lives telling us that we shouldn't settle for "shitty" jobs and accuse us of being lazy when we scoff at the shitty jobs? You've DRILLED into our brains that people in these industries are failures at life and now you wonder why we don't want these jobs.

/rant

I think I got a smidge off-topic in there but I at least hit the spirit of the thread, right?

If I haven't, feel free to ask me to trash this post. I think this topic is interesting and I'm a little worried that I might knock it off the train tracks if I missed the point (which, after reading the OP again, I think I may have)

 

[Julius Terrell]

As a person who does Janitorial Work, I'm at a loss. I do have a stable job, but it pays shit. I love the job, because I get to meet all kinds of people and I get free food. On the other hand I can't continue to do this kind of work for the rest of my life. I know that I'm quite intelligent and I'd love to have a job that fulfilled me intellectually.

I've always wanted to get into software development. The world will always need a programmer, but the actual learning of such a job is at a loss to me. I've talked to people, but outside of going to school it just seems impossible to learn to program.

I've done janitorial work for the last 10 or so years. I've actually made good money from time to time, but I want to finally make a move that will move me up the ladder. I guess I'm just tired of seeing my intelligence go to waste.

Edit: I am VERY physically fit. I'm a fairly fast long distance runner. It makes me perfect for this type of work, but most of my co-workers over the years have always been the exact opposite.

Hmm, are you sure you talked to the right people? I have a few comp-sci friends and they tell me that learning to program without college instruction is perfectly doable, at least at the amateur level (not sure what separates amateurs from pros, maybe just depth of knowledge?). Heck, one of my friends knew a good deal of C++ before going to college. There are lots of online resources and books available on the topic, and to my knowledge (which admittedly isn't much...I only know basic java and html) a great deal of the learning comes from actually writing programs, not from learning from a professor. I believe MIT has some free resources for beginner coders.

Plus, if it's financially feasible for you, night classes at community college are a possibility.

I went to ITT for a while, and I took one programming class. The teacher moved way too fast for my liking. It seemed like she wanted everyone to know how to code in like 8 weeks or less. If I had the right resources I could have more success if I did this at my own pace.

I've always been one of those people who enjoyed cleaning jobs. I like working hard and moving around. There were certain companies I worked for that paid me $15/hour just to clean. It's not like you can't make a good living as a cleaner. You just have to live in the right place for the wages to be that high.

With my current job, I seem to get that look a lot from people. I work at a mall. It just seems like everyone looks at me like my job is so fucking worthless. If I didn't do my job, you wouldn't be able to use the bathroom without worrying if there is piss on the toilet seat.

It reminds of watching Bugglegum Crisis 2040. In the first episode you see how everyone is treating the boomers that do all the menial jobs like shit. Just replace boomers with real people. It feels like the same thing.

society doesn't value menial jobs, but need them more than ever. Somebody has to do the work nobody wants to do.

 

[Pink Gregory]

. Now we are up to our eyes in debt, drowning financially and completely fucking ourselves for (at least) the next ten years of our life and now WE'RE the lazy people when we say "A job is a job is bullshit"? You've spent our entire lives telling us that we shouldn't settle for "shitty" jobs and accuse us of being lazy when we scoff at the shitty jobs? You've DRILLED into our brains that people in these industries are failures at life and now you wonder why we don't want these jobs.

Sounds about right.

I can only assume that the office middle-manager is apparently the golden standard of today.

 

[dyre]

As a person who does Janitorial Work, I'm at a loss. I do have a stable job, but it pays shit. I love the job, because I get to meet all kinds of people and I get free food. On the other hand I can't continue to do this kind of work for the rest of my life. I know that I'm quite intelligent and I'd love to have a job that fulfilled me intellectually.

I've always wanted to get into software development. The world will always need a programmer, but the actual learning of such a job is at a loss to me. I've talked to people, but outside of going to school it just seems impossible to learn to program.

I've done janitorial work for the last 10 or so years. I've actually made good money from time to time, but I want to finally make a move that will move me up the ladder. I guess I'm just tired of seeing my intelligence go to waste.

Edit: I am VERY physically fit. I'm a fairly fast long distance runner. It makes me perfect for this type of work, but most of my co-workers over the years have always been the exact opposite.

Hmm, are you sure you talked to the right people? I have a few comp-sci friends and they tell me that learning to program without college instruction is perfectly doable, at least at the amateur level (not sure what separates amateurs from pros, maybe just depth of knowledge?). Heck, one of my friends knew a good deal of C++ before going to college. There are lots of online resources and books available on the topic, and to my knowledge (which admittedly isn't much...I only know basic java and html) a great deal of the learning comes from actually writing programs, not from learning from a professor. I believe MIT has some free resources for beginner coders.

Plus, if it's financially feasible for you, night classes at community college are a possibility.

I went to ITT for a while, and I took one programming class. The teacher moved way too fast for my liking. It seemed like she wanted everyone to know how to code in like 8 weeks or less. If I had the right resources I could have more success if I did this at my own pace.

I've always been one of those people who enjoyed cleaning jobs. I like working hard and moving around. There were certain companies I worked for that paid me $15/hour just to clean. It's not like you can't make a good living as a cleaner. You just have to live in the right place for the wages to be that high.

With my current job, I seem to get that look a lot from people. I work at a mall. It just seems like everyone looks at me like my job is so fucking worthless. If I didn't do my job, you wouldn't be able to use the bathroom without worrying if there is piss on the toilet seat.

It reminds of watching Bugglegum Crisis 2040. In the first episode you see how everyone is treating the boomers that do all the menial jobs like shit. Just replace boomers with real people. It feels like the same thing.

society doesn't value menial jobs, but need them more than ever. Somebody has to do the work nobody wants to do.

Hey, I'm not saying your job is worthless or shit. Like I said, if it was worthless, it wouldn't exist. Janitors exist because society has a demand for them. The problem is, they will never be as highly valued because there is not exactly a scarcity of them, nor a high barrier of entry (training/experience) to being a janitor (as far as I know, anyway). I don't mean this as an insult, but to a company, the janitor is a lot more replaceable than the senior vice president or even the junior analyst (whom the company has invested training in). If you left the next day, the toilets wouldn't be clogged; they'd just hire another janitor. And honestly that's true of junior analysts too but they'll have to put some more effort into training the guy before he can do his part effectively.

It's kind of like how factory owners back in the Industrial Revolution treated workers like shit. Lost an arm from a workplace accident? Well fuck off then, there's ten more guys waiting to take your place. It wasn't because the workers were stupid or lazy or incapable; it's just that who gives a shit about the worker when you can always hire another in his place?

Anyway I'm not trying to be a dick here; just trying to highlight why society doesn't value certain jobs, regardless of their utility to society. I'm not saying it's right or just, but that's the way it is. Thankfully as far as I can tell most people treat janitors at least courteously, though I haven't been one so I can't really say that for sure. But anyway I'd definitely take another shot at using online resources to learn programming. Don't let one shitty professor block your ambition to do a more respected and personally rewarding (assuming you enjoy it) line of work.

 

[Adam Locking]

I value the people that do the unpleasant jobs. The cleaners, the sewer workers and the binmen. However, the people who I cannot stand are the people who have had the entire education subsidised by the taxpayer then decide that they are going to live in a carven and teach archery. That effectively means that the people who are doing the cleaning and picking up the bins taxes has been wasted on some who values their own happiness above the people who doing the crap boring jobs. When the country is paying £47 billion in interest a year its kind of like spitting in everyone else's faces. You have paid for my degree and healthcare now that I'm in position to start paying back, I'm going to piss off and do what makes me happy and you can all pay for me.

I have to completely disagree here. Before I continue, please note I am not one of these people you describe, I currently work at a well paying firm (my annual salary is at the national average, before overtime pay/perks), so this isn't in self defense.

If somebody is not claiming the dole or any other government benefits, why shouldn't they do whatever they like? Yes their education has been subsidized by the taxpayer, but it was done so entirely against their consent. Education is mandatory in my country until the age of 16, and some maniacs are pushing for it to be increased to 18! Some people aren't interested in any higher education or knowledge, and the money would be quite frankly wasted on them. To suggest people HAVE to take a "proper" job to pay back into society is like thrusting ten grand into somebody's hand, setting it alight and then forcing them to pay back the "loan". If someone is happy living in squalor with the bare minimum needed to survive, let them.

On the other hand, if someone is claiming government money for food, heating and living expenses while sitting on their arse then too right, screw them!

 

[Saltyk]

I can't say that I hear either of these statement too often. While, I don't highly value fast food workers, I do respect them. I've had conversations with the people taking my order plenty of times. And on the occasion that I order a pizza, I generally tip five dollars on my less than $20 order (usually around $14-18) simply because I know how hard the work is. I generally wish them the best and hope they will get better paying jobs which appreciate them more. This is pretty much because I worked fast food, knew several people who delivered pizzas, and my sister was a bartender in college.

Nor do I disrespect the people who clean. Hell, I gave the cleaning lady that comes into my job a hug before I left for my vacation Christmas break. And the woman who used to regularly come in, I was/am on very good terms with and often talked to her. If nothing else, I'd rather not do that sort of thing.

Honestly, the "At least you have a job" line is what I hear most. Can't I complain about my fucking job for 5 seconds without someone reminding me that I have a job? Yes, I'm happy to have one and to earn a good steady paycheck. But, I'd like to also be allowed to complain about some of the bull shit that goes down. Like last minute orders, or stupid (even contradictory) instructions, or others not taking five seconds to actually check the computer system to see what is actually in stock rather than assuming, or any other number of things. These are annoying. Besides, everyone complains about work. Even if the economy is bad, I still should be free to complain about annoying things!

 

[Callate]

I live in a country with a significant number of upper-level financial people who make scads of money while leaving the businesses and people they touch significantly worse off than when they got there. Comparatively, someone like a janitor who leaves things better than when they came and frequently has to engage with microbe-laden grime and highly toxic cleaning chemicals seems downright noble.

We use to call it "honest work", and sometimes we look on such things with rose-colored glasses when we aren't overlooking them all together. It's gross, it's hard, it doesn't require a lot of education, and perhaps worst of all, it doesn't lead anywhere. It defies the narrative we worship that some day the really smart people above you will recognize how well you do your dirty job and promote you to, well, senior janitor, I guess.

So we don't look too hard, and assume it's temporary; that the person doing that job is moving on to other things, or if it's us, it's just an early step on the road to greatness. An early and little-detailed chapter in the autobiography that will be remarkable only in how far we've come. And if someone stays in that job- that doesn't fit the narrative. There must be something wrong with them. They must have done something wrong. They must deserve it.

It's really sad if we're starting to look at the kind of people who make tons of content for Youtube that way.

 

[Albino Boo]

I value the people that do the unpleasant jobs. The cleaners, the sewer workers and the binmen. However, the people who I cannot stand are the people who have had the entire education subsidised by the taxpayer then decide that they are going to live in a carven and teach archery. That effectively means that the people who are doing the cleaning and picking up the bins taxes has been wasted on some who values their own happiness above the people who doing the crap boring jobs. When the country is paying £47 billion in interest a year its kind of like spitting in everyone else's faces. You have paid for my degree and healthcare now that I'm in position to start paying back, I'm going to piss off and do what makes me happy and you can all pay for me.

I have to completely disagree here. Before I continue, please note I am not one of these people you describe, I currently work at a well paying firm (my annual salary is at the national average, before overtime pay/perks), so this isn't in self defense.

If somebody is not claiming the dole or any other government benefits, why shouldn't they do whatever they like? Yes their education has been subsidized by the taxpayer, but it was done so entirely against their consent. Education is mandatory in my country until the age of 16, and some maniacs are pushing for it to be increased to 18! Some people aren't interested in any higher education or knowledge, and the money would be quite frankly wasted on them. To suggest people HAVE to take a "proper" job to pay back into society is like thrusting ten grand into somebody's hand, setting it alight and then forcing them to pay back the "loan". If someone is happy living in squalor with the bare minimum needed to survive, let them.

On the other hand, if someone is claiming government money for food, heating and living expenses while sitting on their arse then too right, screw them!

The last labour government passed legislation making education mandatory until 18. It does not come into effect until 2015. The country faces and aging population and simultaneous debt crises. This means there are decreasing number of taxpayers having to pay for the increasing health costs and pensions of the older generation, while also having to find extra money to pay down unsustainable levels of debt. The current generation of 40 year olds already can expect a lower standard of living than their parents in retirement and to have to work longer to retire. The next generation of 20 year olds are going to have it even tougher because even middle class jobs are going to come under threat from India and China. The welfare state is creaking under the strain and there isn't room for people not to be attempting to live up their potential. If you have a degree and don't even earn the national average that means you are a net loss to the taxpayer and there simply isn't any slack left in the system for that happen anymore. They might be happy in the short term, but when the money runs out and there isn't a health system anymore they won't be very happy.

taxes has been wasted on some who values their own happiness

wot. Don't blame people who're benefitted by an extremely unfair system for the system's unfairness, and especially don't get upset at those people if they decide that they don't want what's being offered to them. As someone who had about seven years of free college handed to him for no reason other than what family he was born into and where he lived and chose not to go to college, I can assure you: if it were my choice, I would have given that to someone else if I could. (And in fact, I could give away a large amount of it, and did)

And most importantly, never choose to demonize people for choosing their own happiness over what others want them to do. It's that sort of thing that's allowed things to get where they are in the first place ("who cares if 10% of your minimum wage income leaves you unable to put your kids through college, you should be more concerned with giving your money to complete strangers than on your own happiness")

For a start the discussion is framed by the British welfare state not the American one. Why shouldn't I be angry with people who rely on me doing a job that I don't enjoy because it pays the bills and puts roof over my family's head and pays for a free point of use health system. What next I shouldn't get angry with thieves because they are taking what they have the opportunity to do? Everyone who is doing the responsible thing is paying for their happiness and that is selfishness and being utterly self centred.

 

[FalloutJack]

People don't know what the hell they're talking about, most of the time. Recognition of this fact will ease the tension and the knots created when they hit you with asinine statements. I respond to this sort of thing by not caring. Generally not listening to the nit-pickery of people who are not you can be so relaxing, because god knows you can beat yourself up a great deal without even trying.

 

[Playful Pony]

Anything you do that people are willing to pay you for is a real job, and a job worth having. If you enjoy what you do that's a huge bonus, and if you are in a position to pick and chose your job you are in the vast majority in the world... Even pretty well-off countries have a significantly harder job market these days...

In my mind it doesn't matter if your job is to remove stones from a horses hoof, do the queens taxes, drive that wooly train that cleans the London tube, or drive very fast cars while being funny on a car show; a job is a job worth having, for most people anyway... If you are wealthy enough to NOT need a job, then good for you. Just remember that most people don't have that luxury!